more bad news for me

phil · 09-21-2009, 08:14 PM

well i found out today that jet moto isnt going to be getting any more atvs and are now dealing with parts and something else like dishes but i forgot, so now the big question whos next?? is china going down the american drain i read a article a while back in dealernews that a LOT of china imports were seized the article also mentioned cf moto was hurt by this, now i know a lot of you didnt see it but the indy show looked like it was the cf moto show they had more advertising than anyone and everyone else combined, now the big question, i know very few will respond to this, either you hate me or just dont like me a lot

but whatever reason, the question is who do i look for to supply atvs mostly under 150cc :?:

TurboT · 09-21-2009, 08:50 PM

Phil,

I'm not sure why you think everyone dislikes you. I've never seen anyone here bad mouth you.

Have you used Alibaba to source any suppliers? Perhaps you can buy some and brand your own product?

Have you reached out to Tao Tao? I have some contact details for them here in Canada if you like, and I think he deals with US dealers as well, or can tell you who to speak to.

-TT

phil · 09-21-2009, 09:19 PM

really i dont think that i was just fishing for some help i try not to keep things too serious most of the leads i get i later forget as once i find a decent product with people (distributor) that are half way honest i dont look any more

TurboT · 09-22-2009, 12:58 AM

Phil,

I have PM'ed you some contact details. I know a dealer up the street from me sells their products, they look okay, and there has been mention in the forums of them. I spoke to this fellow briefly when I was considering trying to sell some on my own.

-TT

BDIAgencies · 09-22-2009, 04:53 PM

Phil,

I know you keep saying you are a small player in the biz but in fact you are problably in the same boat as the rest of North America.When you are selling chinese branded motorcycle we are small players compared to the big 4. I'm hearing more and more of chinese branded bikes going by the wayside because they will not honor the warranty or heck even have the parts to cover the warranty. That is why the prices are so cheap because the quality is crap. The dealer makes no money on products and what ever profit they make covers of the fixing anything that is broken!

People(who are not dealers) are the first ones to say that certain Chinese branded bikes are too expensive or they need to be around $1000 before I get one and turn around say its a piece of crap and blame the dealer/company...well guess what you get what you pay for. What has ruined it for this industry is the ebay/direct buy from the importers where the crate is shipped to your door and you do the PDI. People want to take out the middle man(Dealers) to save a few bucks but you need the middle man to create the after the sale support you need.

I have a question to throw out to people and I want an honest answer..Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada

Cal25 · 09-22-2009, 05:51 PM

I had a similar choice when I bought my bike. A dealer 25 miles away had one for 1799 assembled. I chose one 200 miles away, in a crate, for less than 1000. The dealer I bought from is still in buisness. The guy 25 miles away is not. I still think I did the right thing FOR ME, after all it is just my oppinion and I hope everybody else does not think like I do anyway

TurboT · 09-22-2009, 07:11 PM

This is a good discussion point.

I don't think the warranty is the issue as much as safety and reliability. Nobody wants to take their bike for a ride and get stranded somewhere, or worse, have a catastraphic failure that injures themself.

It's one thing to have a warranty, but to have the bike in the shop all the time getting repaired is an annoyance as well. So, if you pay extra because of the warranty, but it's always in the shop for the warranty repair, you're no farther ahead in the eyes of the consumer.

I believe the crate to the door is another detriment, as you have people assembling mechanical products who have no business doing so, breeding more problems onto themselves, and giving the product more bad feedback. I do believe it's a catch 22 in the chinese motorsport world.

BDIAgencies · 09-22-2009, 07:46 PM

In my opinion, if someone is offering a good warranty the product is pretty solid to begin with especially if the product is USA DOT/Transport Canada approved..

At the end of the day your still paying less than a Honda or Yamaha

Reveeen · 09-22-2009, 07:53 PM

Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get?

This kind of *thinking* is flawed and I'm going to tell you why.

If a device is quality built then "warranty" does not come into play. Like the TV you buy at Future Slop (or Burst Buy for our US folks) you go into the store and buy a TV, this TV has a 1 year warranty, for X number of $ you can extend this warranty to 2-5 years. Chances are, if the thing is going to "let the evil smoke out" it is going to happen within 90 days. Motorcycles are much the same.

Parts:
If you were to construct a vehicle from parts it would likely cost 10X+ the retail value of that vehicle. It does not make economic sense not to sell parts, and LOTS of them, whenever/wherever you can. Should the retail price of the vehicle reflect this? I don't *think* so (you should be making more money off of parts than retail vehicle sales).

Jim · 09-22-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAGACANADA

People(who are not dealers) are the first ones to say that certain Chinese branded bikes are too expensive or they need to be around $1000 before I get one and turn around say its a piece of crap and blame the dealer/company...well guess what you get what you pay for. What has ruined it for this industry is the ebay/direct buy from the importers where the crate is shipped to your door and you do the PDI. People want to take out the middle man(Dealers) to save a few bucks but you need the middle man to create the after the sale support you need.

I have a question to throw out to people and I want an honest answer..Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada

Some people maybe. I would say most members here are pretty aware you get what you pay for. When prices become comparative to Japanese bikes though, the argument for an unproven Chinese bike becomes harder. I wasn't trying to say your bikes should be $1000, just that at $3299 plus whatever fees would be levied on top of that, would be more then I would be willing to pay. The newer price you mentioned seems much more inline for the Canadian market in this area.

.Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why?

Saga Canada
Me, no. I specifically try to work out a deal where I save money by voiding any warranty at all. These bikes are relatively simple, parts are cheap, and problems are often cheap to repair. I never had any expensive issue with any of my Chinese products, and parts were readily available, and cheap. Sure I could have paid more for warranty and hoped my bike broke, but I didn't feel like gambling.

phil · 09-22-2009, 08:45 PM

i have been promised the moon before, "we cover parts,labor and we are the biggest" still waiting for that money, sure it think at that price and that warranty i would be intrested. but here is the problem(s) my best sells come from small atvs that have a warranty, parts only for some reasonable time is fine. the people who buy these are looking for a childs first bike and it needs to hold together long enough for them to outgrow or find they have other intrest and they didnt spend $2k finding out, its just smarter. or maybe they just like to have play bikes not racing bikes to ride around, learn to ride, or maybe they cant afford it, when i was young (i was never real small) my parents couldnt buy me a new bike, and didnt care much for me riding anyhow. and i had junk most of the time. thats why i sell these. some buy to save gas thats the street/dual sport bikes and they enjoy riding (i think the gas is a excuse for the mrs.) im sure 2 years of warranty would give a buyer a better sense of security and yes it would help but like i said i need a seller for 150cc and smaller for now. im willing to hear the sales pitch for saga but really im fairly happy with the zongs they are of pretty good quality and they do what they say they will so far. i wouldnt even look if they offered the atvs on the website

BDIAgencies · 09-22-2009, 09:35 PM

Turbo T,

What bike shop are you talking about that sell Tao Tao products up the street from you in Surrey.

From my understanding Tao Tao is mid to very poor quality and the prices reflect that....Are they not banned from selling to the US....I could be wrong and forgive me if I am. I wouldnt want someone to invest in something and be stuck without knowing...

TurboT · 09-22-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAGACANADA

Turbo T,

What bike shop are you talking about that sell Tao Tao products up the street from you in Surrey.

From my understanding Tao Tao is mid to very poor quality and the prices reflect that....Are they not banned from selling to the US....I could be wrong and forgive me if I am. I wouldnt want someone to invest in something and be stuck without knowing...

I'm not aware of Tao Tao being banned in the US, only Gio, for reasons I'm not aware of.

Sinclair's Motorsports sells Tao Tao stuff I'm sure, although not branded Tao Tao. She denied it to me but the distributor of Tao Tao listed all dealers in the area selling their products and they were on the list.

I can't honestly say anything of Chinese brand is 'high quality' from what I have seen, but they get the job done for the money you spend. I only have experience with my Gio quads which I'm not unhappy with.

-TT

Jim · 09-22-2009, 10:41 PM

Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh?

I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly.

BDIAgencies · 09-22-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil

well i found out today that jet moto isnt going to be getting any more atvs and are now dealing with parts and something else like dishes but i forgot, so now the big question whos next?? is china going down the american drain i read a article a while back in dealernews that a LOT of china imports were seized the article also mentioned cf moto was hurt by this, now i know a lot of you didnt see it but the indy show looked like it was the cf moto show they had more advertising than anyone and everyone else combined, now the big question, i know very few will respond to this, either you hate me or just dont like me a lot

but whatever reason, the question is who do i look for to supply atvs mostly under 150cc :?:

Well there is a reason why they are seizing products.
1) The importation of these products was so massive years ago, was too much for the US Government to control....not any more.
2) U.S government is following Canada's regulations so that there is a safer product being brought into the U.S in which there is documented quality control...which brings me to my final point
3) Due to safety and liability concerns,insurance companies will be moving forward and preventing product that is not compliant EPA and DOT/Transport approved to recieve insurance.

Don't be surprised in the next couple of years your insurance will be denied due to improper certification....

That is why you are seeing importers close there doors...they wont invest in the proper documentation....

I hope this sheds some light ....

09-21-2009, 08:14 PM	#1
phil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: wise va Posts: 636	more bad news for me well i found out today that jet moto isnt going to be getting any more atvs and are now dealing with parts and something else like dishes but i forgot, so now the big question whos next?? is china going down the american drain i read a article a while back in dealernews that a LOT of china imports were seized the article also mentioned cf moto was hurt by this, now i know a lot of you didnt see it but the indy show looked like it was the cf moto show they had more advertising than anyone and everyone else combined, now the big question, i know very few will respond to this, either you hate me or just dont like me a lot but whatever reason, the question is who do i look for to supply atvs mostly under 150cc :?: __________________ halls auto l coolster, modcycles, yanmar & zongshen, dealer fired roketa,lifan and jet moto and apollo quit me who's next
	0

09-21-2009, 09:19 PM	#3
phil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: wise va Posts: 636	really i dont think that i was just fishing for some help i try not to keep things too serious most of the leads i get i later forget as once i find a decent product with people (distributor) that are half way honest i dont look any more __________________ halls auto l coolster, modcycles, yanmar & zongshen, dealer fired roketa,lifan and jet moto and apollo quit me who's next
	0

09-22-2009, 08:45 PM	#11
phil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: wise va Posts: 636	i have been promised the moon before, "we cover parts,labor and we are the biggest" still waiting for that money, sure it think at that price and that warranty i would be intrested. but here is the problem(s) my best sells come from small atvs that have a warranty, parts only for some reasonable time is fine. the people who buy these are looking for a childs first bike and it needs to hold together long enough for them to outgrow or find they have other intrest and they didnt spend $2k finding out, its just smarter. or maybe they just like to have play bikes not racing bikes to ride around, learn to ride, or maybe they cant afford it, when i was young (i was never real small) my parents couldnt buy me a new bike, and didnt care much for me riding anyhow. and i had junk most of the time. thats why i sell these. some buy to save gas thats the street/dual sport bikes and they enjoy riding (i think the gas is a excuse for the mrs.) im sure 2 years of warranty would give a buyer a better sense of security and yes it would help but like i said i need a seller for 150cc and smaller for now. im willing to hear the sales pitch for saga but really im fairly happy with the zongs they are of pretty good quality and they do what they say they will so far. i wouldnt even look if they offered the atvs on the website __________________ halls auto l coolster, modcycles, yanmar & zongshen, dealer fired roketa,lifan and jet moto and apollo quit me who's next
	0

09-22-2009, 10:41 PM	#14
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Sinclairs has built up a negative following on craigslist eh? I think the Qingqi bikes look like they're really good quality, reflected in price though. I haven't had the chance to own one though, just from checking them out quickly. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

09-21-2009, 08:50 PM	#2
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Phil, I'm not sure why you think everyone dislikes you. I've never seen anyone here bad mouth you. Have you used Alibaba to source any suppliers? Perhaps you can buy some and brand your own product? Have you reached out to Tao Tao? I have some contact details for them here in Canada if you like, and I think he deals with US dealers as well, or can tell you who to speak to. -TT
	0

09-22-2009, 12:58 AM	#4
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Phil, I have PM'ed you some contact details. I know a dealer up the street from me sells their products, they look okay, and there has been mention in the forums of them. I spoke to this fellow briefly when I was considering trying to sell some on my own. -TT
	0

09-22-2009, 04:53 PM	#5
BDIAgencies Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moncton N.B Posts: 148	Phil, I know you keep saying you are a small player in the biz but in fact you are problably in the same boat as the rest of North America.When you are selling chinese branded motorcycle we are small players compared to the big 4. I'm hearing more and more of chinese branded bikes going by the wayside because they will not honor the warranty or heck even have the parts to cover the warranty. That is why the prices are so cheap because the quality is crap. The dealer makes no money on products and what ever profit they make covers of the fixing anything that is broken! People(who are not dealers) are the first ones to say that certain Chinese branded bikes are too expensive or they need to be around $1000 before I get one and turn around say its a piece of crap and blame the dealer/company...well guess what you get what you pay for. What has ruined it for this industry is the ebay/direct buy from the importers where the crate is shipped to your door and you do the PDI. People want to take out the middle man(Dealers) to save a few bucks but you need the middle man to create the after the sale support you need. I have a question to throw out to people and I want an honest answer..Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? If not why? Saga Canada
	0

09-22-2009, 05:51 PM	#6
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	I had a similar choice when I bought my bike. A dealer 25 miles away had one for 1799 assembled. I chose one 200 miles away, in a crate, for less than 1000. The dealer I bought from is still in buisness. The guy 25 miles away is not. I still think I did the right thing FOR ME, after all it is just my oppinion and I hope everybody else does not think like I do anyway
	0

09-22-2009, 07:11 PM	#7
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	This is a good discussion point. I don't think the warranty is the issue as much as safety and reliability. Nobody wants to take their bike for a ride and get stranded somewhere, or worse, have a catastraphic failure that injures themself. It's one thing to have a warranty, but to have the bike in the shop all the time getting repaired is an annoyance as well. So, if you pay extra because of the warranty, but it's always in the shop for the warranty repair, you're no farther ahead in the eyes of the consumer. I believe the crate to the door is another detriment, as you have people assembling mechanical products who have no business doing so, breeding more problems onto themselves, and giving the product more bad feedback. I do believe it's a catch 22 in the chinese motorsport world.
	0

09-22-2009, 07:46 PM	#8
BDIAgencies Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moncton N.B Posts: 148	In my opinion, if someone is offering a good warranty the product is pretty solid to begin with especially if the product is USA DOT/Transport Canada approved.. At the end of the day your still paying less than a Honda or Yamaha
	0

09-22-2009, 07:53 PM	#9
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Would you pay extra for a chinese branded bike if you were given a full 2 year warranty and parts were not a problem to get? This kind of thinking is flawed and I'm going to tell you why. If a device is quality built then "warranty" does not come into play. Like the TV you buy at Future Slop (or Burst Buy for our US folks) you go into the store and buy a TV, this TV has a 1 year warranty, for X number of $ you can extend this warranty to 2-5 years. Chances are, if the thing is going to "let the evil smoke out" it is going to happen within 90 days. Motorcycles are much the same. Parts: If you were to construct a vehicle from parts it would likely cost 10X+ the retail value of that vehicle. It does not make economic sense not to sell parts, and LOTS of them, whenever/wherever you can. Should the retail price of the vehicle reflect this? I don't think so (you should be making more money off of parts than retail vehicle sales).
	0

09-22-2009, 09:35 PM	#12
BDIAgencies Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moncton N.B Posts: 148	Turbo T, What bike shop are you talking about that sell Tao Tao products up the street from you in Surrey. From my understanding Tao Tao is mid to very poor quality and the prices reflect that....Are they not banned from selling to the US....I could be wrong and forgive me if I am. I wouldnt want someone to invest in something and be stuck without knowing...
	0