Motor manufacturer question.

liverchip · 02-13-2007, 09:52 PM

Sorry to post this in the DS forum, but most seem to hang out here and it really applies to both.

Is there any way to tell who actually built the motor for my TSM(Shineray). It's identical to the Lifans, but does Zongshen make motors for Shineray, or am I way out in left field?

msRandi · 02-13-2007, 10:01 PM

I can't help. but god do I want to figer out who makes what for who. thay look alike to me.

culcune · 02-13-2007, 11:18 PM

Liverchip, I might have answered your question on the other thread you asked this one. (And you Ms. Randi, if you find this question answered elsewhere)

I have come to the (sort of :? ) educated conclusion that most of the imported U.S.-branded bikes (Viva, Roketa, Jetmoto, etc.) use Zongshen engines, if not wholly manufactured by Zongshen.

I am out in left-field as far as Shineray, as they claim to be one of the biggest manufacturers in China. Heck, they even sponsor their own MX team. However, I would venture that they use Zongshen engines, if not the entire bike being Zongshen-made.

I think that 2 or so years ago, Lifan was manufacturing a few brands, too, such as bfe###'s(Alan, I forgot the digits in your handle and am too lazy to find them) Diamo. However, I think that Diamo is now a Zongshen product. Lifan seems to have narrowed their focus to their own branded product, whether it is an American LIfan or a gray-market Lifan.

Redcat was supposed to have started selling the Lifan LF200GY-5 as a rebadged Redcat, but that deal never went through. T-Motorsports kinda/sorta rebadges the GY-5 as a TMS product, but for the most part, it would be difficult, if not impossible to find a Lifan-manufactured US brand. I know there is the Hongdou brand in Europe, but that is another Lifan brand, not another stand-alone brand. In fact, Honda sued, and won, a lawsuit against Lifan for the name and symbol for Hongdou as it was deemed too close to Honda, but it seems that Hongdous are still widely available--maybe a European member can fill us in on the details?

I just went out and shined a flashlight on the right side of the engine in the cooling fins--the engraving was on the bottom of one of the cooling fins and starts with the symbol "ZS#######" indicating a Zongshen-made motor.

I just added this photo to my gallery, and hope it opens here:

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2809

liverchip · 02-14-2007, 12:15 AM

Well. this is interesting. I have looked in the same location, under the cooling fins and sure enough there used to be a number there. It has been ground off. It looks as if it could have once started with a ZS, but I cannot say for sure.

culcune · 02-14-2007, 12:21 AM

I wonder if this falls under federal law--perhaps the ATF should be looking out for engine numbers filed off!

Maybe Shineray is a "manufacturer" of its own product, but use the molds from Zongshen, and they left off the engine number, or something like that. It seems to get stranger and more interesting!

Perhaps we need to take a group trip to China to get behind the scenes of all these manufacturers; who is really manufacturing, and who is rebadging.

liverchip · 02-14-2007, 12:22 AM

I decided to just continue the thread here, as it also effects other bikes out there. Here is a link to my engine number:

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2814

I have been unsuccessful in getting a photo of the ground down numbers as of yet.

liverchip · 02-14-2007, 12:33 AM

Here is a rather out-of-focus photo of the number set. I will try to get a better one but the garage is closed and access to the bike is hindered by the sand rail. Here is the link(I seem to be having issues posting photos within the forum):

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2819

culcune · 02-14-2007, 08:48 AM

The second photo was a little too blurry to see anything, as you mentioned. Perhaps, and we will probably never know the truth, Shineray has their own molds for the 169 engine (maybe they simply copied Lifan's or Zongshen's engines?) and actually make their entire line on their own; the designs are copies of others (Zongshen) that they pay a royalty to. I don't really think we will ever get to the bottom of it!

liverchip · 02-14-2007, 10:20 AM

The number used to be a sequence of hand-printed dots, like yours there Simon. Strange stuff indeed. Maybe the head is a ZS head on a Shineray case?

cajunkym · 02-15-2007, 08:06 PM

Culcune, You shed some light to identifying my Diamo and the way to order parts from other dealers. My engine is an ZS169FML. The remaining question I have is what that means as far as design. It is OHC, so do you think that is their nomenclature for that feature alone?

02-13-2007, 09:52 PM	#1
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	Motor manufacturer question. Sorry to post this in the DS forum, but most seem to hang out here and it really applies to both. Is there any way to tell who actually built the motor for my TSM(Shineray). It's identical to the Lifans, but does Zongshen make motors for Shineray, or am I way out in left field? __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
	0

02-13-2007, 11:18 PM	#3
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,055	Liverchip, I might have answered your question on the other thread you asked this one. (And you Ms. Randi, if you find this question answered elsewhere) I have come to the (sort of :? ) educated conclusion that most of the imported U.S.-branded bikes (Viva, Roketa, Jetmoto, etc.) use Zongshen engines, if not wholly manufactured by Zongshen. I am out in left-field as far as Shineray, as they claim to be one of the biggest manufacturers in China. Heck, they even sponsor their own MX team. However, I would venture that they use Zongshen engines, if not the entire bike being Zongshen-made. I think that 2 or so years ago, Lifan was manufacturing a few brands, too, such as bfe###'s(Alan, I forgot the digits in your handle and am too lazy to find them) Diamo. However, I think that Diamo is now a Zongshen product. Lifan seems to have narrowed their focus to their own branded product, whether it is an American LIfan or a gray-market Lifan. Redcat was supposed to have started selling the Lifan LF200GY-5 as a rebadged Redcat, but that deal never went through. T-Motorsports kinda/sorta rebadges the GY-5 as a TMS product, but for the most part, it would be difficult, if not impossible to find a Lifan-manufactured US brand. I know there is the Hongdou brand in Europe, but that is another Lifan brand, not another stand-alone brand. In fact, Honda sued, and won, a lawsuit against Lifan for the name and symbol for Hongdou as it was deemed too close to Honda, but it seems that Hongdous are still widely available--maybe a European member can fill us in on the details? I just went out and shined a flashlight on the right side of the engine in the cooling fins--the engraving was on the bottom of one of the cooling fins and starts with the symbol "ZS#######" indicating a Zongshen-made motor. I just added this photo to my gallery, and hope it opens here: http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2809 __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

02-14-2007, 12:15 AM	#4
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	Well. this is interesting. I have looked in the same location, under the cooling fins and sure enough there used to be a number there. It has been ground off. It looks as if it could have once started with a ZS, but I cannot say for sure. __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
	0

02-14-2007, 12:21 AM	#5
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,055	I wonder if this falls under federal law--perhaps the ATF should be looking out for engine numbers filed off! Maybe Shineray is a "manufacturer" of its own product, but use the molds from Zongshen, and they left off the engine number, or something like that. It seems to get stranger and more interesting! Perhaps we need to take a group trip to China to get behind the scenes of all these manufacturers; who is really manufacturing, and who is rebadging. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

02-14-2007, 12:22 AM	#6
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	I decided to just continue the thread here, as it also effects other bikes out there. Here is a link to my engine number: http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2814 I have been unsuccessful in getting a photo of the ground down numbers as of yet. __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
	0

02-13-2007, 10:01 PM	#2
msRandi Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglas, AZ Posts: 220	I can't help. but god do I want to figer out who makes what for who. thay look alike to me.
	0

02-14-2007, 12:33 AM	#7
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	Here is a rather out-of-focus photo of the number set. I will try to get a better one but the garage is closed and access to the bike is hindered by the sand rail. Here is the link(I seem to be having issues posting photos within the forum): http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...g2_itemId=2819 __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
	0

02-14-2007, 08:48 AM	#8
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,055	The second photo was a little too blurry to see anything, as you mentioned. Perhaps, and we will probably never know the truth, Shineray has their own molds for the 169 engine (maybe they simply copied Lifan's or Zongshen's engines?) and actually make their entire line on their own; the designs are copies of others (Zongshen) that they pay a royalty to. I don't really think we will ever get to the bottom of it! __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

02-14-2007, 10:20 AM	#9
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	The number used to be a sequence of hand-printed dots, like yours there Simon. Strange stuff indeed. Maybe the head is a ZS head on a Shineray case?
	0

02-15-2007, 08:06 PM	#10
cajunkym Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Culcune, You shed some light to identifying my Diamo and the way to order parts from other dealers. My engine is an ZS169FML. The remaining question I have is what that means as far as design. It is OHC, so do you think that is their nomenclature for that feature alone?
	0