Difficulty Pushing

Jorogumo4 · 10-02-2023, 01:12 PM

My bike is still pretty new, but after dropping it for the second time in the grass, it feels pretty difficult to push and move around, it's got a lot of resistance.

It's not in gear, the brake isn't engaged. After it sat for a bit in my driveway it stopped being like that and was easy to push again, but after driving it around in my yard again when I went to go push it back into my garage, it was difficult to push again?

Any ideas what's going on here?

Bill Hilly · 10-02-2023, 01:18 PM

It wouldn't have to do with dropping it, but it sounds like a rubber brake line trying to collapse, or a caliper sticking. Loosen the bleeder on the caliper, and see if it frees up.

**JerryHawk250** · 10-02-2023, 01:20 PM

Get each wheel off the ground and see which one is giving the resistance. I know I had that problem on my Hawk when i first had it. It turned out that the rear brake peddle was not fully returning and not letting the hydraulic pressure to release.

GypsyR · 10-02-2023, 01:27 PM

My Templar was like that when new. But it rolled OK in neutral, just not in gear with the clutch pulled in. Bothered me slightly but I never quite got around to looking into it. Now that the bike is approaching the end of its break in period it seems to have disappeared.

Now if it had felt like it was brakes or something I definitely would have been on the hunt for the issue.

Bill Hilly · 10-02-2023, 01:39 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Get each wheel off the ground and see which one is giving the resistance. I know I had that problem on my Hawk when i first had it. It turned out that the rear brake peddle was not fully returning and not letting the hydraulic pressure to release.

I never had problems with mine, but on my Hawk that I bought used, the spring that runs from the underside of the pedal, over towards the foot peg was missing. I didn't know it for a long time. I had a similar spring from a brake kit that I had for my Ranger, and used it. The one that I bought just a few days ago also doesn't have it. I suspect that many people never install the spring when they assemble their bike. I have been tinkering with the one I bought for parts the other day, and just the simple act of removing the broken tank fairings, and removing the countless stickers from the other plastic, and painting them black has made the bike looks better . I left the stickers on the tank, because I like the "stacked" redhead in the skimpy military uniform riding the bomb ,which has shark teeth. I lends a certain sense of class to the bike. The bike only has 700+ showing on it, but it has really been abused, but if I did not have any bikes, I think I would probably still register it.

Thumper · 10-02-2023, 02:48 PM

As Jerry suggests, you definitely need to check each wheel to isolate the problem (with the wheel off the ground while you are checking it out. If you don't have a lift or platform, maybe someone can help you set it on an upside down 5 gallon paint bucket.

Sticky master cylinder, or slave cylinder? There is a bleeding nipple (probably 8mm) on the slave cylinder which you can use to to relieve pressure which may help you diagnose the problem. But before you open that up, maybe see if a skinny screwdriver can be used to pry apart the pads. At that point, maybe you will know which wheel to focus on. The fact that it goes away over time sounds like a hydraulic brake issue at the master or slave cylinder.

If it is NOT a sticky brake, then I am stumped given the symptoms you describe!

Megadan · 10-02-2023, 03:28 PM

I would bet solid money on the rear brake adjustment being a little too tight. Tight enough to rub the pads on the rotor and making them hot. Hot metal expands = brake resistance increases = feedback loop until brake fluid boils and pads/rotor glaze.

This was a very common problem on the Hawks in the early days with new owners. The Hawk came with the rear brake adjusted too tight.

Jorogumo4 · 10-02-2023, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

It wouldn't have to do with dropping it, but it sounds like a rubber brake line trying to collapse, or a caliper sticking. Loosen the bleeder on the caliper, and see if it frees up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

Sticky master cylinder, or slave cylinder? There is a bleeding nipple (probably 8mm) on the slave cylinder which you can use to to relieve pressure which may help you diagnose the problem. But before you open that up, maybe see if a skinny screwdriver can be used to pry apart the pads. At that point, maybe you will know which wheel to focus on. The fact that it goes away over time sounds like a hydraulic brake issue at the master or slave cylinder.

If it is NOT a sticky brake, then I am stumped given the symptoms you describe!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

I would bet solid money on the rear brake adjustment being a little too tight. Tight enough to rub the pads on the rotor and making them hot. Hot metal expands = brake resistance increases = feedback loop until brake fluid boils and pads/rotor glaze.

This was a very common problem on the Hawks in the early days with new owners. The Hawk came with the rear brake adjusted too tight.

One thing I should include is, if the clutch is pulled in, it doesn't change it, and if the bike is running, it becomes easy to push again.

I will get it jacked up now and try to isolate which one is giving the problem. My guess is the rear.

Give me just a few minutes

Jorogumo4 · 10-02-2023, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorogumo4

One thing I should include is, if the clutch is pulled in, it doesn't change it, and if the bike is running, it becomes easy to push again.

I will get it jacked up now and try to isolate which one is giving the problem. My guess is the rear.

Give me just a few minutes

Yeah I cannot turn the rear wheel at ALL by hand, I have to truly push the motorcycle with all my strength to move it. Again if it's running it seems to push fine, only when it's off this happens.

Additionally, do these bikes not have alternators?

Thumper · 10-02-2023, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorogumo4

Yeah I cannot turn the rear wheel at ALL by hand, I have to truly push the motorcycle with all my strength to move it. Again if it's running it seems to push fine, only when it's off this happens.

Additionally, do these bikes not have alternators?

Presumably, the transmission was in neutral when you tried to turn the rear wheel??
And did you attempt to loosen the rear brake caliper with a screw driver?
Was the caliper locked on the rotor disk?

No alternator. These bikes get alternating current (AC) from the stator, which is inside the harmonic balancer/flywheel. The voltage is converted to DC in a rectifier/regulator (a diode) to charge the battery/lighting. Some have CDI units (ignition) that require AC input, and some require DC input.

But the stuck rear wheel isn't related to an electrical problem, right? What's up with the electrical system??

Dan's suggestion to check the brake lever position is another possibility. In addition to the linkage that pushes the master cylinder piston, He shows the back stop screw, which as he says, might need to be adjusted. It could be preventing the brake lever from backing off sufficiently when you release the brake!

Megadan · 10-02-2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorogumo4

Yeah I cannot turn the rear wheel at ALL by hand, I have to truly push the motorcycle with all my strength to move it. Again if it's running it seems to push fine, only when it's off this happens.

Additionally, do these bikes not have alternators?

Not sure exactly what bike you have, but for all of the Hawk-like bikes the rear brake adjustment is basically a bolt that threads into a tab on the frame behind the kick start lever with a jam nut.

Loosen the jam nut and spin it down and then spin the bolt up (righty tigty). What you are aiming for is a just a tiny bit of free play in the pedal before the hydraulics activate. If you have the rear wheel off the ground while adjusting you can spin the wheel buy hand and activate the pedal to judge your adjustment range. You want just enough play that the brakes activate with maybe 1/8th to a 1/16th of an inch of movement.

As thumper said, most motorcycles use a stator setup (magnet passing close to wound coils of copper) to create AC current. That current is then rectified to DC and a voltage regulator keeps it within about 14 volts-ish and shunts the excess and turns it into heat (why reg/recs have heat fins).

Unlike an alternator, which uses an induced em field for charging and can be turned on and off, a stator is always charging thanks to the fixed magnets on the flywheel. For the best longevity it is generally a good idea to have a stator and charging system operating at 50% to 80% at any given moment. Otherwise, it will generate a lot of heat, and heat is what degrades the electrical parts over time. This is why I just leave my headlight on all the time with my Hawk, as it helps me be seen, aka daytime running lights. That, and my LED headlight draws 25W and has a rated lifespan of 25,000 hours or something ridiculous like that, plus a headlight bulb is way easier to change.

Jorogumo4 · 10-03-2023, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

Presumably, the transmission was in neutral when you tried to turn the rear wheel??
And did you attempt to loosen the rear brake caliper with a screw driver?
Was the caliper locked on the rotor disk?

No alternator.

Dan's suggestion to check the brake lever position is another possibility. In addition to the linkage that pushes the master cylinder piston, He shows the back stop screw, which as he says, might need to be adjusted. It could be preventing the brake lever from backing off sufficiently when you release the brake!

Was more just curious on the alternator, unrelated haha. I don't have my licenses yet so I putt around my back yard every now and again, the battery starts getting weak after about 5-6 cranks, guessing I'm just not getting it fast enough consistent enough to charge the battery, really only driving around in my yard at around 5mph

After work today I'll mess with that brake and see if that frees it up! I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for all the help so far.

Jorogumo4 · 10-03-2023, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Not sure exactly what bike you have, but for all of the Hawk-like bikes the rear brake adjustment is basically a bolt that threads into a tab on the frame behind the kick start lever with a jam nut.

Had a little time to mess with it this morning, adjusted that nut and she rolls a lot better! Later today I will fire her up and ride it around the yard, test the brake, and see if she gets hard to push again after a quick ride. But I think that did the trick!

**JerryHawk250** · 10-03-2023, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorogumo4

Had a little time to mess with it this morning, adjusted that nut and she rolls a lot better! Later today I will fire her up and ride it around the yard, test the brake, and see if she gets hard to push again after a quick ride. But I think that did the trick!

Just make sure you leave a little play in it.

Jorogumo4 · 10-03-2023, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Just make sure you leave a little play in it.

Issue resolved! It was indeed the rear brake just rubbing a bit too much. I guess like what was mentioned was since the pad was constantly touching the rotor then it was heating up everything creating excess pressure.

Should I be worried about any potential vapor from the boiled over brake fluid? Or no since, it's hydroscopic?

10-02-2023, 01:12 PM	#1
Jorogumo4 Join Date: Jul 2023 Posts: 27	Difficulty Pushing My bike is still pretty new, but after dropping it for the second time in the grass, it feels pretty difficult to push and move around, it's got a lot of resistance. It's not in gear, the brake isn't engaged. After it sat for a bit in my driveway it stopped being like that and was easy to push again, but after driving it around in my yard again when I went to go push it back into my garage, it was difficult to push again? Any ideas what's going on here?
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10-02-2023, 01:20 PM	#3
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,590	Get each wheel off the ground and see which one is giving the resistance. I know I had that problem on my Hawk when i first had it. It turned out that the rear brake peddle was not fully returning and not letting the hydraulic pressure to release. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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10-02-2023, 02:48 PM	#6
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,421	As Jerry suggests, you definitely need to check each wheel to isolate the problem (with the wheel off the ground while you are checking it out. If you don't have a lift or platform, maybe someone can help you set it on an upside down 5 gallon paint bucket. Sticky master cylinder, or slave cylinder? There is a bleeding nipple (probably 8mm) on the slave cylinder which you can use to to relieve pressure which may help you diagnose the problem. But before you open that up, maybe see if a skinny screwdriver can be used to pry apart the pads. At that point, maybe you will know which wheel to focus on. The fact that it goes away over time sounds like a hydraulic brake issue at the master or slave cylinder. If it is NOT a sticky brake, then I am stumped given the symptoms you describe! __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it
	2

10-02-2023, 03:28 PM	#7
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,064	I would bet solid money on the rear brake adjustment being a little too tight. Tight enough to rub the pads on the rotor and making them hot. Hot metal expands = brake resistance increases = feedback loop until brake fluid boils and pads/rotor glaze. This was a very common problem on the Hawks in the early days with new owners. The Hawk came with the rear brake adjusted too tight. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 Last edited by Megadan; 10-02-2023 at 05:25 PM.
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10-02-2023, 01:18 PM	#2
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 958	It wouldn't have to do with dropping it, but it sounds like a rubber brake line trying to collapse, or a caliper sticking. Loosen the bleeder on the caliper, and see if it frees up.
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10-02-2023, 01:27 PM	#4
GypsyR Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 294	My Templar was like that when new. But it rolled OK in neutral, just not in gear with the clutch pulled in. Bothered me slightly but I never quite got around to looking into it. Now that the bike is approaching the end of its break in period it seems to have disappeared. Now if it had felt like it was brakes or something I definitely would have been on the hunt for the issue.
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