Why shouldn't you buy a clone?

Greggl4321 · 10-28-2019, 10:27 AM

So, someone very well respected said buying a clone would be a mistake as opposed to a Honda Grom.

This breaks my ❤️

How can it not be true? He didn't explain why, and it probably doesn't matter, but I won't be driving to the level that he drives or demand the performance that he does, I'm not sure if he had this in mind. I just want a little inexpensive commuter

Thoughts? Why exactly shouldnt one buy a Chinese bike? Isn't half of it the Honda name and the fuel injection?

PhildoScaggins · 10-28-2019, 11:54 AM

The real answer is maintenance. It takes wrenching usually weekly to keep these bikes up to snuff. When you get it you need to loctite every bolt on the bike pretty much. After that its frequent oil changes and inspecting bolts, chain slack, etc. I've read quite a few of your posts asking these kind of questions. My advice to you would be to either hunt for a used grom, but given your concerns about speed because you're a big dude I would recommend a csc sg250 or tt250. the csc bikes require less maintenance and setup. Just my 2 cents.

Greggl4321 · 10-28-2019, 12:22 PM

I don't really have a speed concern, just want to do about 55mph

You said ect... What other weekly maintenance needs to be performed?

PhildoScaggins · 10-28-2019, 12:40 PM

I would say its more about doing pre-ride inspections. Checking for loose bolts, making sure everything is well lubricated, checking wheel and swing arm bearings stuff like that. That being said, I don't know how comfortable you would be on a mini. I also dont think a mini is going to get you up to 55mph as an average speed. 45 is a much better crusing speed on these bikes. I just personally think that given your height and weight you will want something a bit bigger that is also more responsive. If youre worried about the wrenching I'm sure you could find a used grom for sub 2k prices.

Greggl4321 · 10-28-2019, 12:45 PM

I suppose I could, I'm in San Diego and I see a used Grom going for $1800 USD -- I get $600 USD a month. I've got 1 more month to get a China bike or 2 more months to get a used Honda Grom if I'm lucky. I cannot wait to get a bike!

The fact that the Honda Grom engine is the price of the China bike is a bit disturbing -

How are motorcycle built? I'm really unsure as to what needs to be done for the maintenance or how to do it other than what you listed. Is there a manual of some sort (iirc Haynes?)

PhildoScaggins · 10-28-2019, 01:35 PM

The honda motors are much much stronger. They are more well built overall. Things like axles and swing arm bolt, brakes, etc. The only frequent maintenance that will really be required for a grom would be oil changes and chain and valve adjustments. A few youtube videos will show you how to do them. You could also stiffen your front forks and maybe buy a stiffer rear shock to accommodate your size.

Greggl4321 · 10-28-2019, 03:26 PM

How many miles can you expect to get out of a clone before it starts to break?

wheelbender6 · 10-28-2019, 11:02 PM

The Honda Grom is so reliable that your great grandson or great grandaughter will be riding it to high school. Most of us do not need a monkey bike to last that long.

culcune · 10-28-2019, 11:03 PM

You could look at it in a few ways. The Grom will be the most dependable, assuming the seller wasn't some young kid stunting it and not caring for it. There is a chance of buying someone's mess. However, my guess is you are more likely to find sellers who are, or think they are, ready to move up to a bigger bike. That would be a seller you want to find.

It has been said that to own a Chinese bike, one has to have a sense of humor. And possibly backup transportation. I have not heard or recall anyone here having a catosrophic failure with their bike, although some have insinuated it. When breaking it down, it is often found later on the member had done something wrong. Once fixed, what sounded like a bike ready to go to the dump or pushed off a bridge, has now become that member's prized possession. The Vader has been well sorted out, but you will need to keep on top of it. There are probably some 'must-do' mods, such as sprockets. Vader owners will chime in with their suggestions based on your commuting needs. There are sources for parts specifically for Vaders out there, and some or at least one, version uses actual Grom parts such as motor mounts and body plastics.

I have little doubt with this site's members advice a Vader can be a good deal for you, but check out some Groms now (Vaders, too if they are around) for sale to get a feel for what they are like.

PhildoScaggins · 10-29-2019, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greggl4321

How many miles can you expect to get out of a clone before it starts to break?

I got about 200 miles before I had to replace the engine mount bolts. after about 700 the top exhaust bolt snapped and I bought a low mount exhaust. At about 1200 miles the exhaust studs snapped and I attempted getting a new head but was unable to figure out the timing chain. I just bought a zs190 for it and called it good. As wheelbender said, the honda is that much more reliable, if I hadn't been so cheap and waited a bit I would've opted for a real honda. I would've spent less time wrenching, more time riding.

Greggl4321 · 10-29-2019, 11:05 AM

Phildo, is that something that could have been fixed?

I mean to say isn't that something the community here could have helped you with?

PhildoScaggins · 10-29-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greggl4321

Phildo, is that something that could have been fixed?

I mean to say isn't that something the community here could have helped you with?

Probably. I bought one head that didn't fit, the second one I couldn't get the timing right. It wasn't until after I bought the zs190 that I found out I could buy a new 125cc motor for $200. I spent $80 on those two heads. Another thing to consider when buying a China bike is resell value. You could drive a used grom for 4 years and probably still get $1000 bucks for it. A grom clone would not get anywhere near that. I'm just telling you the moves I wish I made. After all the mods I did to mine (not including the new engine) I could've bought a used grom that would've preformed better and I wouldn't have had to do much work on it at all. That being said people out there have put quite a bit of miles on the grom clones. I still think being able to resell the bike is a huge deal. If you like it and want to go bigger, you could still sell it for a decent chunk and have a sweet down payment on a $250.

Greggl4321 · 10-29-2019, 04:50 PM

What were the issues with the timing chain? Is there a video or tutorial of how to fix the timing?

PhildoScaggins · 10-30-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greggl4321

What were the issues with the timing chain? Is there a video or tutorial of how to fix the timing?

I'm not really sure why I couldnt get the timing right. I got fed up and just decided to buy a zs190 since thats what I wanted to do anyways. I'm sure someone could have helped me, but I have limited patience when I've been trying to fix something for a while and keep failing.

franque · 10-30-2019, 10:55 AM

Before you remove the timing gear/tension on the chain, after the motor is at TDC, you mark the sprocket/chain with either a paint marker or nail polish at asymmetric places so it's easier to line back up.

10-28-2019, 10:27 AM	#1
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	Why shouldn't you buy a clone? So, someone very well respected said buying a clone would be a mistake as opposed to a Honda Grom. This breaks my ❤️ How can it not be true? He didn't explain why, and it probably doesn't matter, but I won't be driving to the level that he drives or demand the performance that he does, I'm not sure if he had this in mind. I just want a little inexpensive commuter Thoughts? Why exactly shouldnt one buy a Chinese bike? Isn't half of it the Honda name and the fuel injection?
	1

10-28-2019, 03:26 PM	#7
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	How many miles can you expect to get out of a clone before it starts to break? Last edited by Greggl4321; 10-28-2019 at 08:42 PM.
	0

10-28-2019, 11:02 PM	#8
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	The Honda Grom is so reliable that your great grandson or great grandaughter will be riding it to high school. Most of us do not need a monkey bike to last that long. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	1

10-28-2019, 11:03 PM	#9
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	You could look at it in a few ways. The Grom will be the most dependable, assuming the seller wasn't some young kid stunting it and not caring for it. There is a chance of buying someone's mess. However, my guess is you are more likely to find sellers who are, or think they are, ready to move up to a bigger bike. That would be a seller you want to find. It has been said that to own a Chinese bike, one has to have a sense of humor. And possibly backup transportation. I have not heard or recall anyone here having a catosrophic failure with their bike, although some have insinuated it. When breaking it down, it is often found later on the member had done something wrong. Once fixed, what sounded like a bike ready to go to the dump or pushed off a bridge, has now become that member's prized possession. The Vader has been well sorted out, but you will need to keep on top of it. There are probably some 'must-do' mods, such as sprockets. Vader owners will chime in with their suggestions based on your commuting needs. There are sources for parts specifically for Vaders out there, and some or at least one, version uses actual Grom parts such as motor mounts and body plastics. I have little doubt with this site's members advice a Vader can be a good deal for you, but check out some Groms now (Vaders, too if they are around) for sale to get a feel for what they are like. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	3

10-28-2019, 11:54 AM	#2
PhildoScaggins Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Woods, Maine Posts: 247	The real answer is maintenance. It takes wrenching usually weekly to keep these bikes up to snuff. When you get it you need to loctite every bolt on the bike pretty much. After that its frequent oil changes and inspecting bolts, chain slack, etc. I've read quite a few of your posts asking these kind of questions. My advice to you would be to either hunt for a used grom, but given your concerns about speed because you're a big dude I would recommend a csc sg250 or tt250. the csc bikes require less maintenance and setup. Just my 2 cents.
	3

10-28-2019, 12:22 PM	#3
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	I don't really have a speed concern, just want to do about 55mph You said ect... What other weekly maintenance needs to be performed?
	0

10-28-2019, 12:40 PM	#4
PhildoScaggins Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Woods, Maine Posts: 247	I would say its more about doing pre-ride inspections. Checking for loose bolts, making sure everything is well lubricated, checking wheel and swing arm bearings stuff like that. That being said, I don't know how comfortable you would be on a mini. I also dont think a mini is going to get you up to 55mph as an average speed. 45 is a much better crusing speed on these bikes. I just personally think that given your height and weight you will want something a bit bigger that is also more responsive. If youre worried about the wrenching I'm sure you could find a used grom for sub 2k prices.
	3

10-28-2019, 12:45 PM	#5
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	I suppose I could, I'm in San Diego and I see a used Grom going for $1800 USD -- I get $600 USD a month. I've got 1 more month to get a China bike or 2 more months to get a used Honda Grom if I'm lucky. I cannot wait to get a bike! The fact that the Honda Grom engine is the price of the China bike is a bit disturbing - How are motorcycle built? I'm really unsure as to what needs to be done for the maintenance or how to do it other than what you listed. Is there a manual of some sort (iirc Haynes?)
	0

10-28-2019, 01:35 PM	#6
PhildoScaggins Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Woods, Maine Posts: 247	The honda motors are much much stronger. They are more well built overall. Things like axles and swing arm bolt, brakes, etc. The only frequent maintenance that will really be required for a grom would be oil changes and chain and valve adjustments. A few youtube videos will show you how to do them. You could also stiffen your front forks and maybe buy a stiffer rear shock to accommodate your size.
	1

10-29-2019, 11:05 AM	#11
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	Phildo, is that something that could have been fixed? I mean to say isn't that something the community here could have helped you with?
	0

10-29-2019, 04:50 PM	#13
Greggl4321 Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 50	What were the issues with the timing chain? Is there a video or tutorial of how to fix the timing?
	0

10-30-2019, 10:55 AM	#15
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	Before you remove the timing gear/tension on the chain, after the motor is at TDC, you mark the sprocket/chain with either a paint marker or nail polish at asymmetric places so it's easier to line back up.
	0