WONT START!!! valve adjustments

Asher · 09-21-2009, 12:33 AM

g'day ive tried absolutely everything to get my bike started, but its not working...
its getting air, fuel and has a spark, now all i can think of is the valves possibly? and changing the plug to an NGK or something instead of the stock...
i bought this bike off someone because he didnt ride it..more like didnt start it...
it only has 5 ks on the clock, so i doubt it needs rings...
however how are valve adjustments done?
without the plug in, looking down the hole it looks as if the intake valve opens way too often...
also, i dont have a compression guage, but putting my finger over the whole, it has a fair bit there...
im absolutely stumped, and the carbie isnt an issue, i pulled the whole thing apart, cleaned jets blah blah blah...
so how are valve adjustments done?
if anyone can help or tip[s/info i would be greatly appreciative

thanks a heap
Asher

Weldangrind · 09-21-2009, 02:01 AM

If you feel that there is considerable compression, don't mess with the valves yet. Swap in a genuine NGK first and let us know if anything changed.

Cheers!

SpudRider · 09-21-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher

g'day ive tried absolutely everything to get my bike started, but its not working...
its getting air, fuel and has a spark, now all i can think of is the valves possibly...
it only has 5 ks on the clock, so i doubt it needs rings...
however how are valve adjustments done?
without the plug in, looking down the hole it looks as if the intake valve opens way too often...

Indeed, first try a new NGK spark plug.

However, you truly might need to adjust the valve clearance. I recently had this problem with my Zongshen 200GY-2 motorcycle; the intake clearance was too tight. My compression was too low, and the engine would not start. :( To learn how to adjust your valve clearance, read the excellent Valve Adjustment Tutorial posted by Red2003.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=1655

I see from a previous thread you own a Zongshen LZX200 motorcycle; however, you donâ€™t state if it is a 200GY-2, or a 200GY-A model. If you have the LZX200GY-2 motorcycle, you might want to read the following thread.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=6458

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher

â€¦also, i dont have a compression guage, but putting my finger over the whole, it has a fair bit there...

If you can afford one, you really should get a compression gauge; it doesnâ€™t need to be an expensive model. I bought an inexpensive compresion gauge from Harbor Freight for $30 USD (United States Dollars.)

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=7807

Spud

Asher · 09-21-2009, 04:46 AM

yeah, was trying everything today, kicked it over and it started once, idled for about 3 seconds then died...spluttered on 2 other occasions, and nothing..
so im stumped...
does this sound like valves? or just a plug?
cos the plug sparks everytime, just dont know if its doing the job ay...

Ulyrider · 09-21-2009, 07:34 AM

Sounds more like a carburetion problem, than anything else. If the previous owner let it sit for any length of time, I would bet the carburetor is gummed up. I just bought mine from a young fellow that let it sit for 5 months. The inside of the carburetor looked like someone dipped it in varnish. Pull the carb, remove the bowl and soak both pieces in carb cleaner over night. The next day, remove the jets and thoroughly clean with tooth brush and make sure the jets are not clogged. Also, make sure the air passages are clear.

By the way, are you kick starting? Does your bike have electric start?

Asher · 09-21-2009, 07:37 AM

yeah mate, already did all that, and cleaned the jets, looked through them and could see the other side fine..and no varnishing inside...
yeah i have been kick starting, cos my battery is flat, when i kicked it over i got it going for a bit then died...

took off the car battery and used it for a bit, just ended up flooding it...
so back to square one...

Asher · 09-21-2009, 07:41 AM

also, i used the technique where you use the tubing on the carby drain screw to see what level the fuel is at:
and according to it, the fuel level was just below the bottom lip, where the bottom half joins onto the top half...
is this an issue?
it floods sometimes, and if i block the sparkplug hole, go past compression stroke, then let my finger off i can see fuel vapour come out of the hole as a vapourised mist...
so i dotn think its a problem...

Ulyrider · 09-21-2009, 04:45 PM

I suggest you get a battery. These things are extremely cold blooded. Mine dies once or twice using the electric start when cold.

AZ200cc · 09-22-2009, 02:10 AM

Did You check the float to see if it had a hole in it?

forchetto · 09-22-2009, 03:24 PM

A bad spark plug can be seen sparking when tested in fresh air outside the cylinder. Once under compression the area around the electrodes is harder to ionise and it may not fire the mixture. Seeing a spark with the plug out just gives you a rough idea of wether the ignition system is working more or less OK, the proof of the pudding is wether the spark can be produced when under pressure.

Do try a decent Japanese plug, NGK or ND.

Same goes for the valve clearance. Until this is right there's no point in going on guessing. Compression might seem OK by feel on the spark plug hole, but really it should blow your thumb right out, even at cranking speeds.

Even if you don't go to the trouble of measuring, etc, at least position the engine with piston at TDC and after gaining access to the valve gear feel the rocker arm for SOME slop or clearance. This is to ensure the valves are seated correctly.

Cal25 · 09-22-2009, 04:49 PM

A couple of thoughts.
Clever way to check the level of fuel in the float bowl. Not sure but my guess would be that the float is set too high. Your coment about flooding also helps me think thats the case. Maybe someone else will chime in and confirm or dismiss my theroy.

Spark plugs can also become wet fouled. A flodded condition could cause it.

If you suspect the engine is flooded, Open the throttle all the way and and hold it there till the engine starts and the RPM's start to rise. Do not use the choke on a flodded engine.

As Uylrider said, get a battery to power the starter motor. I have tried starting mine cold several times with the kickstart and succeded only a couple of times. Try jumping it with a car battery if you want to.

Asher · 09-24-2009, 08:53 AM

its all good, running well now, thanks for all your help
(yeah got it goin no probs with the kick starter, and i still havnt taken it on a long ride yet to charge the battery, but its all sweet) THANKS!

Cal25 · 09-24-2009, 10:29 AM

So what was wrong?

Cal25 · 09-24-2009, 10:34 AM

Never mind. I saw the answer on your duplicate post.

09-21-2009, 12:33 AM	#1
Asher Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9	WONT START!!! valve adjustments g'day ive tried absolutely everything to get my bike started, but its not working... its getting air, fuel and has a spark, now all i can think of is the valves possibly? and changing the plug to an NGK or something instead of the stock... i bought this bike off someone because he didnt ride it..more like didnt start it... it only has 5 ks on the clock, so i doubt it needs rings... however how are valve adjustments done? without the plug in, looking down the hole it looks as if the intake valve opens way too often... also, i dont have a compression guage, but putting my finger over the whole, it has a fair bit there... im absolutely stumped, and the carbie isnt an issue, i pulled the whole thing apart, cleaned jets blah blah blah... so how are valve adjustments done? if anyone can help or tip[s/info i would be greatly appreciative thanks a heap Asher
	0

09-21-2009, 02:01 AM	#2
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	If you feel that there is considerable compression, don't mess with the valves yet. Swap in a genuine NGK first and let us know if anything changed. Cheers! __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

09-22-2009, 02:10 AM	#9
AZ200cc Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Show Low Arizona Posts: 2,889	Did You check the float to see if it had a hole in it? __________________ <br />2001 Suzuki DR200SE<br />1997 Suzuki RM250 YIKES<br />1995 Yamaha Breeze 125 daughters<br />1991 Honda XR80r Restored<br />maybe a 2003 Yamaha TTR90
	0

09-22-2009, 03:24 PM	#10
forchetto Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gijon, Asturias,Northern Spain Posts: 396	A bad spark plug can be seen sparking when tested in fresh air outside the cylinder. Once under compression the area around the electrodes is harder to ionise and it may not fire the mixture. Seeing a spark with the plug out just gives you a rough idea of wether the ignition system is working more or less OK, the proof of the pudding is wether the spark can be produced when under pressure. Do try a decent Japanese plug, NGK or ND. Same goes for the valve clearance. Until this is right there's no point in going on guessing. Compression might seem OK by feel on the spark plug hole, but really it should blow your thumb right out, even at cranking speeds. Even if you don't go to the trouble of measuring, etc, at least position the engine with piston at TDC and after gaining access to the valve gear feel the rocker arm for SOME slop or clearance. This is to ensure the valves are seated correctly. __________________ Jincheng Monkey JC50Q-7 (two of them) Skyteam Dax replica ST110-6 (two of them) Zongshen ZS125-43 Qingqi QM200GY-BA Super Motard Yamaha Virago XV1100 Triumph Bonneville SE Qingqi QM110GY PGO Bug rider 250 Buggy
	0

09-21-2009, 04:46 AM	#4
Asher Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9	yeah, was trying everything today, kicked it over and it started once, idled for about 3 seconds then died...spluttered on 2 other occasions, and nothing.. so im stumped... does this sound like valves? or just a plug? cos the plug sparks everytime, just dont know if its doing the job ay...
	0

09-21-2009, 07:34 AM	#5
Ulyrider Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 9	Sounds more like a carburetion problem, than anything else. If the previous owner let it sit for any length of time, I would bet the carburetor is gummed up. I just bought mine from a young fellow that let it sit for 5 months. The inside of the carburetor looked like someone dipped it in varnish. Pull the carb, remove the bowl and soak both pieces in carb cleaner over night. The next day, remove the jets and thoroughly clean with tooth brush and make sure the jets are not clogged. Also, make sure the air passages are clear. By the way, are you kick starting? Does your bike have electric start?
	0

09-21-2009, 07:37 AM	#6
Asher Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9	yeah mate, already did all that, and cleaned the jets, looked through them and could see the other side fine..and no varnishing inside... yeah i have been kick starting, cos my battery is flat, when i kicked it over i got it going for a bit then died... took off the car battery and used it for a bit, just ended up flooding it... so back to square one...
	0

09-21-2009, 07:41 AM	#7
Asher Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9	also, i used the technique where you use the tubing on the carby drain screw to see what level the fuel is at: and according to it, the fuel level was just below the bottom lip, where the bottom half joins onto the top half... is this an issue? it floods sometimes, and if i block the sparkplug hole, go past compression stroke, then let my finger off i can see fuel vapour come out of the hole as a vapourised mist... so i dotn think its a problem...
	0

09-21-2009, 04:45 PM	#8
Ulyrider Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 9	I suggest you get a battery. These things are extremely cold blooded. Mine dies once or twice using the electric start when cold.
	0

09-22-2009, 04:49 PM	#11
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	A couple of thoughts. Clever way to check the level of fuel in the float bowl. Not sure but my guess would be that the float is set too high. Your coment about flooding also helps me think thats the case. Maybe someone else will chime in and confirm or dismiss my theroy. Spark plugs can also become wet fouled. A flodded condition could cause it. If you suspect the engine is flooded, Open the throttle all the way and and hold it there till the engine starts and the RPM's start to rise. Do not use the choke on a flodded engine. As Uylrider said, get a battery to power the starter motor. I have tried starting mine cold several times with the kickstart and succeded only a couple of times. Try jumping it with a car battery if you want to.
	0

09-24-2009, 08:53 AM	#12
Asher Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9	its all good, running well now, thanks for all your help (yeah got it goin no probs with the kick starter, and i still havnt taken it on a long ride yet to charge the battery, but its all sweet) THANKS!
	0

09-24-2009, 10:29 AM	#13
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	So what was wrong?
	0

09-24-2009, 10:34 AM	#14
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	Never mind. I saw the answer on your duplicate post.
	0