HELP ME PLEASE!!! Zongshen 200 disaster....

[phil]

the motor is the drive train call me tommorrow i may need you to fax me some papers it should be under warranty they do not cover labor (standard pratice except for lifan who says they pay) :wink:
so you may be stuck with repair shops bill have you contacted zongshens office in miami if you havent, dont, ill call

[culcune]

Originally Posted by katoranger

The zongshen engine is different than the lifan engine.

Allen

It is different, but I did put a Lifan engine in a Jetmoto (which uses the Zongshen engine) as a replacement, once.

However, the Sierra is apparently a different animal all together. If a Lifan can go in, figure on ordering from Ebay for under $400 shipped. Go to Ebay , and put Lifan in the search,a nd a few engines should show up. But order only if the Lifan can go into the Sierra frame!

[DDG1976]

Originally Posted by mrglass2626

What is a Mechanics Lien?

A mechanics lien is where a mechanic can file papers to assume your bike with "title" as his own. The purpose for this is for the mechanic to recoupe money that is owed to him. In other words he can take the bike legally if there is money owed for his services on the bike.

[katoranger]

You can install the new engine with alittle help from us here and some basic tools. You have any mechanically inclined friends to help?

I think Phil is going to do his best to get you covered under warranty.

Allen

[mrglass2626]

Hi, updating:

Today is the day i go to the shop and get my bike back! I have a friend with a truck (who is also skilled in bike repair) - I'm simply cutting the shop out of the loop as they have done absolutely nothing to help me over the past 4 months.

Phil - thank you for your offer of help - and to everyone else. I intend to see what state the bike is in today ( i seriously doubt they will have put the engine back in the bike).

I will take photos of the situation and post links on Sunday. With the support I have found here I hope to have it running again sometime in the near future.

Wish me luck today and again, thanks for the support!

[BUG]

Good luck to you. Another user here based in Canada sells parts for many makes, not sure if he would have a complete engine, i will see if i can find some info.

[BUG]

Here's the site

http://www.chinapartscanada.com

[mrglass2626]

I got it back! Not only that but I got it back without the expected rip-off "strip down and investigation" charge!

Bike is now outside and I am so happy to have it there .....even if the engine is on my porch.

Tomorrow I will photograph the damage and catalogue everything - will post to flickr so people can view and give me their opinions on what to do next.

The friend who helped me get the bike (who has stripped down bike engines before) sees no reason why we can't get it running with the right parts.

I think at worse it will need a whole new "top end".

I am grateful for the support from people here. I am optimistic for the first time in 4 months! Together I think we can get this done!!

Photos tomorrow!

Thanks again!!!

[katoranger]

You can find yamaha top ends pretty easy on ebay.

Allen

[mrglass2626]

Alright here it is...the sorry state my Zongshen is in.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2757029...7612674047907/

There looks to visible signs of scoring inside the cylinder and another score mark where the piston top meets the valves:



Please give me your input.

The parts are stored right now in gallon baggies awaiting their fate.

As for the rest of the bike, it appears to be ok, lots of dangling tubes and cables and a big gap where the engine once was. At least nothing looks rusted over as I had feared.

I also noticed that there is no bottom frame to the bike - the engine kind of dangles, rather than being sat on a steel tube frame. I can only assume this will make putting in anything other than the exact same model engine in more difficult.

What do you think? New engine or is this one workable? I do not have the experience or know-how on how to reassemble this motor. I do feel that I would be able to "swap-out" a new for old - assuming the new engine worked just fine.

[chrism1]

Do you have any idea what caused that kind of scoring?

[TeamCheap]

more pics...MORE PICS......please.

I'd like to see more pics of the piston, cylinder and head....specifically the scored area's and the cylinder head valve area (combustion side)
OHH excellent pics in the link on flickr by-the-way.

I think that engine could run again BUT it looks like it had some scoring, partial seizing.
Was it low on oil, old oil, really hot the day it messed up or was it running to lean, sucking air in some place it shouldnt have been???
Is the oil pump OK?

Is there any slop / free play in the wrist pin or connecting rod bearing?

It looks very similar to our bikes engines but it has that yamaha type swing arm mount were the swing arm bolt goes thru the engine case(I'm not a big fan of that)

It appears you could just get an over sized piston and have it bored to match and do a valve job on it and it should run again or maybe you can find a matching set (piston/cylinder +rings)being sold online somewhere and just reassemble with the new parts.Of course the cost of all that would almost be the same as buying a whole new engine.

[phil]

i agree we need more pics i can see the score but i cant see the side of the piston where the score was made i can see the other sides but not where the damage was to the piston. more is hiding i still have never seen a failure like described and by the cylinder walls. its still hiding i dont think the scoring locked this engine i bet it would run by just putting it back together if that is the only problem it may smoke now it still needs fixing just pointing out observations (not facts) regardless boring with a oversize piston is pretty much out cost, labor would outprice a $400 engine also a guess. when i died was the engine running fine :?: was you revving hard :?: did it have enough oil :?: you dont have to answer here but to yourself and if it was one of the latter 2 i wouldnt here :wink:
first you need 3 rules
1. WHAT what happened (piston, rod, valve)
2. WHY why did the part fail (oil, overspeed,fuel, heat)
3. HOW how is how do we prevent it from happening again
listen carefully :!: this is important you need to listen to phil 8O tommorrow, your mission in life is call zongshen http://www.zongshenamerica.com/ ask for manny BE NICE if he is busy call back and BE NICE tell him the situation ask if he can help maybe even a reduced price engine since it is or was under warranty he will likely help ask him to get his guys to look at the old engine (they are good cant speak english but really good) i have already spoke with manny now let us know how this works the ball is in your court

[mrglass2626]

Here's how it happened.

1) Cruising with my (now) wife.
2) OAT was about 25C and i'd been running the bike for about 2 hours.
3) Was in high gear cruising at about 50-60mph. Definitely not gunning it - i take care of my bike and am not a speed nut.
4) Was on a straight stretch of road (thank god) when the following occurred:
5) A shudder from the engine + high revs (like it had been popped down a gear) + deceleration and then failure before the bike rolled to a stop.
6) Engine extremely hot to the touch
7) After 20-30 mins by the roadside cooling down I tried to start it up:
8) bike ran well and seemed to produce 80-90% power BUT had a tapping noise that was not there before the incident.
9) Kind gent in a truck passed by and took us home.
10) Let bike cool down overnight.
11) Next day it started no problem, and gave good power - but with same tapping noise.
12) Took to "the dealer" and after about 2 weeks they said they'd fixed it....
13) Went to pick up the bike and all they had done was put fuel cleaner in it and tightened the chain. Tapping was still there but they "couldn't hear it"
14) Shop said that engines change sounds as they break in.....sound like bullsh*t to me.
15) Then ensued the 4 month debacle that has been described herein.
16) Upon call after call they gave the following diagnosis:

A) The timing chain was stretched
B) The piston rod was bent
C) The "top end" is blown and the whole engine will need to be replaced

17) They mentioned in the last phone call that when they drained the engine, it only had xxxml of oil in it (can't remember exact number but it was obvious that they meant that it has little oil in it).....I find this difficult to believe because:

1) I change the oil every 1500 miles
2) I had changed the oil about 1 month prior to the incident
3) The engine did not leak oil
4) They told me this after they been messing around with my engine on their shop floor for 3.5 months - The oil is probably on their floor!!

So. Why did it happen? Overheat? Low oil? I'm not sure.
All I know is that the next day it ran fine (I even rode it to the shop!) And now I have a bike and engine in bits.

The saga continues. Will not be able to post photos until next weekend as my weeks are packed with work. Sorry.

TO PHIL:
Phil, if you would be so kind as to PM me your contact details I would like to take advantage of your offer to speak with Zongshen America for me. I would appreciate you help very much. If I can get a discount engine I will be very pleased.

Regards.

[BillR]

Good pics.
Check that cam follower and cam lobes to see if they are roughened up some, too.

Been there/done that :oops:
Stoopie (me) was changing the oil and filter in my Quadsport one night. I was tired and rushed the job.
Next day, we were tearing down a trail, WFO (been running for about 30 minutes) and the thing just died. Bad part, a friend was riding it and I was on an Elsinore 250. He was scared to death he had done something to it.
Had to let it cool down before it would restart.
While waiting for it to cool, and checking on things, I found the oil filter was installed backwards. I had put the solid end into the engine. The only oil that was flowing was whatever was able to squeeze by the spring pressure.
Turned the filter the correct way, started it up and made it home.

Eventually, it started smoking all the time. Pulled the cylinder and saw pretty much what you have there. There was also some scoring on the cam followers, thus the comment.
Local dealer honed the cylinder and put in one size up rings. Didn't change the piston.
It was still running well with that when I sold it.

I'd go for a new jug and piston, if you can find that. If not, new engine will be a lot easier.
Good luck,
Bill