What do you get for 3000 bucks?

elroyjetsn · 08-21-2008, 12:41 PM

Just read a review of the new Honda 230 enduro. One of the complaints the reviewer made was that the top speed was only 65MPH. The bike sells for $4,495

http://powersports.honda.com/motorcy...delId=CRF230L8

You would think that for all that extra expense, you'd at least get to 70mph on the thing. Don't think it's the gearing since the Honda has a 6 speed tranny. 6th usually being overdrive? :roll:

alonzo · 08-21-2008, 01:15 PM

I bet you it would be really easy to uncork the extra ponies in it though.

as far as a 200 or 250 having a top speed of 65 to 75 mph that has been the norm. if you dont like it go find an old 2 smoke cr :twisted: yz :twisted: kz :twisted: it :twisted: ... ect ect bring the gear ratio down and enjoy 85 to 100 mph winds on a sub 250 pound bike

TeamCheap · 08-21-2008, 03:29 PM

Just so you know it is most likely restricted as a guy at work just bought a new honda XR650R and had a dual-sport kit put on it and said it was OK, then he found out that honda makes them restricted and there were a few things that had to be removed and now it is a scary monster.

So to sum it up, they may come in tame but there is most likely a lot more bike lurking just under the stickers of the honda.

Even so if the honda 230 enduro is near its peak in engine performance the rest of the bike overall is still far better than the chinese bikes as of right now and I'd love a much bettter suspension on my china bike but it all costs money so I just do with what I have.for now

elroyjetsn · 08-21-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamCheap

Just so you know it is most likely restricted as a guy at work just bought a new honda XR650R and had a dual-sport kit put on it and said it was OK, then he found out that honda makes them restricted and there were a few things that had to be removed and now it is a scary monster.

No surprise on that, it's the same bike that wins the Baja 1000 every year. In "From Dust to Glory" you can see them cruising at 110mph down dirt roads and along beaches like nothing. It's the King of all Dirtbikes as far as i'm concerned. 8)

elroyjetsn · 08-21-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamCheap

So to sum it up, they may come in tame but there is most likely a lot more bike lurking just under the stickers of the honda.

Even so if the honda 230 enduro is near its peak in engine performance the rest of the bike overall is still far better than the chinese bikes as of right now and I'd love a much bettter suspension on my china bike but it all costs money so I just do with what I have.for now

Still that being said, does it still justify triple the cost of new chinabikes. A Ninja 250 goes 100mph and costs 3500 or so.

My point is, that for 3000 more the Honda should at very least be a highway bike. Cruise at 70, top speed of 85 maybe. :?

TeamCheap · 08-22-2008, 05:41 AM

I think its more a question of "does it do the job its meant to do".

My riding lawn mower only goes about 8-12MPH(guessing) but it cuts the lawn just fine.I never expected to be able to run the expressway with it.

Is the 250 ninja a dual-sport bike ? (nope) but it does do the job it was made to do.Try staying in the same group of products to compare with.

The honda 230cc dual-sport is what it is and was made to do double duty which I suppose means they had to compromize on some things since off roading puts different demands on the bike.I'd guess the honda 230 D-S wouldnt do to well against a 230-250cc dirtbike on a track either.

If you need a bit more power for the road then I'd guess you'd want a larger displacement dual-sport.

Which brings us to "Why havnt the chinese COPIED a 350-400cc dual sport and brought it here yet".
I know they have them but no one has brought them in yet.
I suspect they want to charge to much and know few people will buy them at close to the big name bike prices.

The comparison of chinese bikes over the other big name bikes has been done to death.
The only thing and I mean ONLY thing the chinese bikes have over all the others is the price.
Once the price factor is removed/equaled there is little reason to buy the chinese product.

IronFist · 08-22-2008, 08:19 AM

I think its more a question of "does it do the job its meant to do". T/C

I thought it would be easy to find a bike that would serve my different needs, since I don't even ride dirt. I can only afford to insure the 1 bike(Canada.). I think I found a good comprimise bike, it met the the main requirements, it's about the price of a bus pass for a year.

It's a smaller bike, ok on long rides, but quick and nimble downtown. It is left wanting a bit on long rides(not a BMW tourer). Of course I'm still looking for a bike that covers my needs completely. But with my finances I have to be reasonable. I have to be satisfied with what most would concider a good second bike.

elroyjetsn · 08-22-2008, 09:57 AM

Definitely does the job it was meant to do in a practical sense. But, does it also rip people off in terms of value? Yes!

To me the pricetag is inexcuseable. The bike is at least $1500 over priced even for what it is! :evil:

Now, i'm curious. Will have to look at one in a Honda dealer and see if the engine is chinese. A $500 engine in a 4500 buck "Japanese" bike wouldn't bode well with me. :x

It sure proves one thing to me.... These chinese bikes are looking better every day :wink:

TeamCheap · 08-22-2008, 11:43 AM

I woulnt be surprized to find "made in china" stamped somewhere on the honda.I found that on an electric motor that controlled the heat in our 2000 chevy blazer.

Honda's not stupid and if they can get a part/component made for a tenth of their present cost they will but they will also have to babysit the chinese who build their parts.

It is a free market and the market should and does dictate the prices and if they are to high then few units will be sold.

The manufacturers make a product expecting to sell X amount of untis for X amount of price and I agree to a large extent that they(japanese) make good money on selling bikes but they are also investing much more into the bikes than the chinese who just copy.

elroyjetsn · 08-22-2008, 12:54 PM

Good point Team,

If only they would find it in their boosom to pass a little of that cost savings to their faithful customers.

I mean come-on! Even at 3500, they'd still probably make 1000 on every bike. :x

elroyjetsn · 08-22-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alonzo

I bet you it would be really easy to uncork the extra ponies in it though.

At 4500 bucks the least they could do is stick their venerable 4 valve 250cc moto-x mill in the thing. :x

SpeedSouth · 08-22-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamCheap

<snip>Is the 250 ninja a dual-sport bike ? (nope) but it does do the job it was made to do.Try staying in the same group of products to compare with. </snip>

I'm certainly not trying to argue that point, but I do think this a good place to link a few threads that show the versatility of the EX250.

Here's one that took on a trail ride and a water crossing -
http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...953&highlight=

Here's a ride on a glacier -
http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...110&highlight=

And here's a thread from a 19,000 mile summer that included some off-road rides -
http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...303&highlight=

Again, not trying to argue that the 250 is a Dual Sport, it isn't. It is, however, a very versatile bike for $3k.

ChiGongJitsu · 08-22-2008, 03:02 PM

i'd rather get a used 450 motox bike and put a dual sport kit on it

they sell used for around 4-5 grand in these parts

then you'd be ready for ANYTHING lol

elroyjetsn · 08-22-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamCheap

If you need a bit more power for the road then I'd guess you'd want a larger displacement dual-sport.

Which brings us to "Why havnt the chinese COPIED a 350-400cc dual sport and brought it here yet".
I know they have them but no one has brought them in yet.
I suspect they want to charge to much and know few people will buy them at close to the big name bike prices.

They make bikes for their own market and export a sprinkling of them here and there. Chinese buyers may have no interest in bikes over 200cc. They may produce 1 million bikes a year and 10,000 or so come over here (mostly scooters).

A market of 50-100 400cc bikes isn't a market at all, why bother?

Now if the US 200cc market suddenly broke loose for DS's. They may crank some bigger bikes out.

alonzo · 08-22-2008, 10:17 PM

the honda 230 is a trail bike it is ment to be relaible and forgiving to years of abuse.

the motox engine is not reliable and forgiving. it is purly a race engine the clients of the crf 250 fully expect to get less than 45 hours on the engine before they need major work done to them. How many hours do you think the 230 will run? might be easier to think in decades. I said before that the 230 has the abality to put out horspower, but on my second thought is why would you want to ruin a perfectly reliable machine.

anyone remember the honda trail 90? you could build those up to, but why? they get 120 mpg and can take more abuse than two generations can give them.

ya you can feel secure in knowing when you buy a honda it will stand the test of time. If I had the 4,500 dollars and needed a trail riding gas sipping machine I would definatly be buying a 230. chances are my grand children would be inheriting it.

08-21-2008, 12:41 PM	#1
elroyjetsn Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 629	What do you get for 3000 bucks? Just read a review of the new Honda 230 enduro. One of the complaints the reviewer made was that the top speed was only 65MPH. The bike sells for $4,495 http://powersports.honda.com/motorcy...delId=CRF230L8 You would think that for all that extra expense, you'd at least get to 70mph on the thing. Don't think it's the gearing since the Honda has a 6 speed tranny. 6th usually being overdrive? :roll: __________________ Wayne Wildfire WF300-SP
	0

08-22-2008, 08:19 AM	#7
IronFist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 2,585	I think its more a question of "does it do the job its meant to do". T/C I thought it would be easy to find a bike that would serve my different needs, since I don't even ride dirt. I can only afford to insure the 1 bike(Canada.). I think I found a good comprimise bike, it met the the main requirements, it's about the price of a bus pass for a year. It's a smaller bike, ok on long rides, but quick and nimble downtown. It is left wanting a bit on long rides(not a BMW tourer). Of course I'm still looking for a bike that covers my needs completely. But with my finances I have to be reasonable. I have to be satisfied with what most would concider a good second bike. __________________ IronFist ___________________________________ The "chain" of command is used for beating spammers. ___________________________________
	0

08-22-2008, 09:57 AM	#8
elroyjetsn Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 629	Definitely does the job it was meant to do in a practical sense. But, does it also rip people off in terms of value? Yes! To me the pricetag is inexcuseable. The bike is at least $1500 over priced even for what it is! :evil: Now, i'm curious. Will have to look at one in a Honda dealer and see if the engine is chinese. A $500 engine in a 4500 buck "Japanese" bike wouldn't bode well with me. :x It sure proves one thing to me.... These chinese bikes are looking better every day :wink: __________________ Wayne Wildfire WF300-SP
	0

08-22-2008, 12:54 PM	#10
elroyjetsn Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 629	Good point Team, If only they would find it in their boosom to pass a little of that cost savings to their faithful customers. I mean come-on! Even at 3500, they'd still probably make 1000 on every bike. :x __________________ Wayne Wildfire WF300-SP
	0

08-21-2008, 01:15 PM	#2
alonzo Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 527	I bet you it would be really easy to uncork the extra ponies in it though. as far as a 200 or 250 having a top speed of 65 to 75 mph that has been the norm. if you dont like it go find an old 2 smoke cr :twisted: yz :twisted: kz :twisted: it :twisted: ... ect ect bring the gear ratio down and enjoy 85 to 100 mph winds on a sub 250 pound bike
	0

08-21-2008, 03:29 PM	#3
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	Just so you know it is most likely restricted as a guy at work just bought a new honda XR650R and had a dual-sport kit put on it and said it was OK, then he found out that honda makes them restricted and there were a few things that had to be removed and now it is a scary monster. So to sum it up, they may come in tame but there is most likely a lot more bike lurking just under the stickers of the honda. Even so if the honda 230 enduro is near its peak in engine performance the rest of the bike overall is still far better than the chinese bikes as of right now and I'd love a much bettter suspension on my china bike but it all costs money so I just do with what I have.for now
	0

08-22-2008, 05:41 AM	#6
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	I think its more a question of "does it do the job its meant to do". My riding lawn mower only goes about 8-12MPH(guessing) but it cuts the lawn just fine.I never expected to be able to run the expressway with it. Is the 250 ninja a dual-sport bike ? (nope) but it does do the job it was made to do.Try staying in the same group of products to compare with. The honda 230cc dual-sport is what it is and was made to do double duty which I suppose means they had to compromize on some things since off roading puts different demands on the bike.I'd guess the honda 230 D-S wouldnt do to well against a 230-250cc dirtbike on a track either. If you need a bit more power for the road then I'd guess you'd want a larger displacement dual-sport. Which brings us to "Why havnt the chinese COPIED a 350-400cc dual sport and brought it here yet". I know they have them but no one has brought them in yet. I suspect they want to charge to much and know few people will buy them at close to the big name bike prices. The comparison of chinese bikes over the other big name bikes has been done to death. The only thing and I mean ONLY thing the chinese bikes have over all the others is the price. Once the price factor is removed/equaled there is little reason to buy the chinese product.
	0

08-22-2008, 11:43 AM	#9
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	I woulnt be surprized to find "made in china" stamped somewhere on the honda.I found that on an electric motor that controlled the heat in our 2000 chevy blazer. Honda's not stupid and if they can get a part/component made for a tenth of their present cost they will but they will also have to babysit the chinese who build their parts. It is a free market and the market should and does dictate the prices and if they are to high then few units will be sold. The manufacturers make a product expecting to sell X amount of untis for X amount of price and I agree to a large extent that they(japanese) make good money on selling bikes but they are also investing much more into the bikes than the chinese who just copy.
	0

08-22-2008, 03:02 PM	#13
ChiGongJitsu Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 315	i'd rather get a used 450 motox bike and put a dual sport kit on it they sell used for around 4-5 grand in these parts then you'd be ready for ANYTHING lol
	0

08-22-2008, 10:17 PM	#15
alonzo Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 527	the honda 230 is a trail bike it is ment to be relaible and forgiving to years of abuse. the motox engine is not reliable and forgiving. it is purly a race engine the clients of the crf 250 fully expect to get less than 45 hours on the engine before they need major work done to them. How many hours do you think the 230 will run? might be easier to think in decades. I said before that the 230 has the abality to put out horspower, but on my second thought is why would you want to ruin a perfectly reliable machine. anyone remember the honda trail 90? you could build those up to, but why? they get 120 mpg and can take more abuse than two generations can give them. ya you can feel secure in knowing when you buy a honda it will stand the test of time. If I had the 4,500 dollars and needed a trail riding gas sipping machine I would definatly be buying a 230. chances are my grand children would be inheriting it.
	0