KPX Rear brake failure

[pathn]

Last night I was riding over to a friends house. I was going down a steep rutted sandy hill (what are called roads here) when I touched the back brake, and the brake pedal went to the stop. No back brake. I used the front brake very gently to get stopped, and went down the rest of hill at crawling speed. No place to turn around. The good part is that I didn't crash.

I knew that back brake had been leaking, but the day before I had brakes.

I sent Venom an email Oct 8th that I had a leak in the rear master cylinder and could the send me another one, as didn't feel I should be rebuilding brake parts on a new bike.

They replied that they would assign a "virtual mechanic" to it and I should send videos and photos regarding the issue ( I am paraphrasing.) I thought that was a crock, and pretty cavalier regarding a brake problems, but I refilled the master cylinder and went on with life. They did follow up with:

"Hello Patrick,

We hope this email finds you well. We are reaching out from Venom Motorsports USA, regarding Ticket # 1804.

We haven't heard back from you in a couple days, and wanted to know if you still needed our assistance.

If so, please review our previous correspondence and respond back with any additional information we've requested.

If we don't hear back in 48 hours, we will assume your issue is resolved and our system will close this ticket.

We appreciate your time and business once again, "

I responded and said that I would watch it.

So, this is my fault for not insisting they fix it. I am now in Mexico searching for a master cylinder that will fit. There are a bunch of Chinese bikes here, so I may get lucky. Of course I wouldn't think of installing it, that would probably void my warranty, see post #409 of the JerryHawk250 KPX sticky.

I also think that when one of your very recent customers says they have a problem with their brakes on a new motorcycle, that they should recognize it as a priority problem and not just send some BS form letter.

Buyer beware, Venom Motorsports doesn't seem to really give a rip for there customers safety or even for their own reputation.

[JerryHawk250]

Patrick, have you tried calling Venom Motorsports? Did you send them video or pictures like they asked for? I'm sure they are asking because they get a bunch of bogus claims which we know yours is not. I would not rely on email communication alone as I'm sure they get tons of email everyday.

[Hap]

Send them a short video of the brake pedal bottomed out and tell them again that the master cylinder is leaking out all the fluid. They probably just need something for proof before sending a new master cylinder. I would give them one more shot at making it right. I personally haven’t dealt with Venom. But I’ve heard really good things about them. Good luck! And what JerryHawk just said. We were responding at the same time.

[IdahoRider]

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, makes it against federal law or deny a claim or void a warranty because vehicle maintenance was performed by the owner, so you can do your own work, just document everything.

I've had two warranty claims on my KPX in two months. Out of the box one of my turn signals didn't work and they sent me a replacement right away. The second claim was an issue with my fork and it took about a week of not knowing if they were going to be able to replace it or not but they were able to send me a complete right fork leg. I did have to send them pictures and there were several email exchanges but they did take care of it. I got the impression the people I communicated with at Venom really know motorcycles that well but at least they came through. I've heard much worse stories about people having to wait much longer to get their mainstream brand motorcycle and automobiles repaired at dealerships.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by pathn

I sent Venom an email Oct 8th that I had a leak in the rear master cylinder and could the send me another one, as didn't feel I should be rebuilding brake parts on a new bike.

They replied that they would assign a "virtual mechanic" to it and I should send videos and photos regarding the issue ( I am paraphrasing.) I thought that was a crock, and pretty cavalier regarding a brake problems, but I refilled the master cylinder and went on with life.

Not sure how you would expect an online retailer to handle this. They need the pictures etc to make sure they are not being ripped off by someone who just wants a new part, maybe to use somewhere else. You didn't comply, now you are searching for parts in Mexico. Yep, your fault. They even followed up, again you not sending any proof. From where they sit, it could be interpreted as they didn't get scammed. As soon as they ask for proof, no response. You gotta see both sides. How would you have handled it any differently if you were an online retailer? You wouldn't be in business long if you were just giving away parts on someone's say-so without visual proof. No different from damaged-in-shipping claims.

[IdahoRider]

[tknj99]

This thread made me recall when the rear brake failed on my (former) new CSC RX4. I was slowing down for a light and hit the rear brake and mush and then it bottomed out barely slowing the bike down. At the light i looked down and saw brake fluid leaking out every time i touched the rear brake. I contacted CSC and it turned out that they were running across several of the new RX4's having the same issue.. they shortly thereafter sent me a new abs module and i fixed it with their instruction.. so these things do happen and having a good company stand behind you makes all the difference

[pathn]

Update:

Venom did respond today. Please see below.

Originally Posted by TominMO

Not sure how you would expect an online retailer to handle this. They need the pictures etc to make sure they are not being ripped off by someone who just wants a new part, maybe to use somewhere else. You didn't comply, now you are searching for parts in Mexico. Yep, your fault. They even followed up, again you not sending any proof. From where they sit, it could be interpreted as they didn't get scammed. As soon as they ask for proof, no response. You gotta see both sides. How would you have handled it any differently if you were an online retailer? You wouldn't be in business long if you were just giving away parts on someone's say-so without visual proof. No different from damaged-in-shipping claims.

Rhetorical question? If it is, too bad, I'm answering anyway.

First, the assumption that I am trying to steal from them is at best distasteful.

This is what I expect, except I expected it the first time.

"Good afternoon Patrick

Thanks for getting back to us.

I tried calling you at (360)xxx-xxxx, but unfortunately I was unable to reach you.

For warranty purposes and In order to better serve you and get you running as quickly as possible, we typically need a video of the brake issue you'd like to us to look at. You don't need to ride the bike. Simply pressing on the brake while pushing the bike will be sufficient. However, as a one time courtesy, I will overrule the terms and get the part you've requested.

Will you only require the following components to be replaced?


Rear Brake Assembly


Can you please confirm this is everything needed? Once completed, I will finalize this request into our parts department for processing. I look forward to hearing from you.
"

Notice that:

It wasn't a form email.
He asked for a specific item to video.
It looked like a person read and understood the message I sent.

I don't think this too much to expect. I think this is basic customer support, that they flunked the first time. If you want to maintain a good reputation sometimes you have to risk a $40 dollar part (full retail) in order to not alienate a brand new customer, especially one with big "mouth". If your margin is so low that you can't do that, take the loss on the business and try something else. There isn't any risk at all in engaging customer like they did today. Also, it's a BRAKE ffs, like a "getting your ass sued into bankruptcy" safety issue.

As for "now you are searching for parts in Mexico" :



That would be more correctly referred to as "finding parts in Mexico". It is $42.50 usd delivered, but at least it's available. Search for "Apulia APR125". It's a nice looking bike also.

[IdahoRider]

They use Zendesk Issue tracking software so everything is part of a permanent record. They probably are being asked by Lifan to provide some proof/illustration of the issue before they send the parts. I don't believe Venom stocks replacement parts and orders them as needed, at least that is what they had to do to get my two replacement parts.

[JerryHawk250]

The post you just made is a good example of why they wanted pictures and/or video. If you read the email you just posted they are asking if you the Rear Brake Assembly. You just posted a picture of the master cylinder. They have to make sure they are sending the correct parts. If they had that information when they asked for it we wouldn't be reading this post.

Secondly no one is assuming that you are trying to steal from them. But in this crazy world I'm sure they get lots of people that are dishonest that try all kinds of ways to steal from them. They have to protect themselves as well.

The automated might seem informal but as IdahoRider stated, it's a system that helps keep track of claims and reminds the dealer to follow up on it. A lot of your frustration could of been avoided in the beginning when the asked for video and picture.

Anyway, glad to see it's getting resolved.

[J4Fun]

[QUOTE=pathn;386453]Last night I was riding over to a friends house. I was going down a steep rutted sandy hill (what are called roads here) when I touched the back brake, and the brake pedal went to the stop. No back brake. I used the front brake very gently to get stopped, and went down the rest of hill at crawling speed. No place to turn around. The good part is that I didn't crash.

“ I knew that back brake had been leaking, but the day before I had brakes”

To me it seems like the bike should have been parked, until the problem was fixed. We should think about this as a lesson. Be careful is my thought!

[pathn]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

The post you just made is a good example of why they wanted pictures and/or video. If you read the email you just posted they are asking if you the Rear Brake Assembly. You just posted a picture of the master cylinder.

I didn't send them that photo.

Before I responded to them I looked up the parts, and saw that the caliper, hose and master cylinder was one assembly.

I spent over five years doing defect tracking software integration and modifications (Bugzilla). Integration meant making it work with trouble ticket software and other software packages and modifications mean customizing it work in other than software defect systems.

As a network administrator I supervised support teams. I have maintained online stores. I have also managed a marine supply store (industrial supply with lots of stainless and bronze) and an independent motorcycle store.

I have opinions on how customer service/support should work, and I've earned the right to have those opinions.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by pathn

I didn't send them that photo.

Before I responded to them I looked up the parts, and saw that the caliper, hose and master cylinder was one assembly.

I spent over five years doing defect tracking software integration and modifications (Bugzilla). Integration meant making it work with trouble ticket software and other software packages and modifications mean customizing it work in other than software defect systems.

As a network administrator I supervised support teams. I have maintained online stores. I have also managed a marine supply store (industrial supply with lots of stainless and bronze) and an independent motorcycle store.

I have opinions on how customer service/support should work, and I've earned the right to have those opinions.

No one is arguing your opinion. The point everyone is making is that you were asked to send them a video and pictures so they could verify the part and the issue. You choose not to yet you place all the blame on the dealer. It's call communication. If you don't communicate back with them then all they can do is assume you resolved the issue. Why you waited so long? I would think after a few days passed you would of either called are emailed them again to see if anyone was working on it or if it got lost in the system.

You choose not to communicate any further so all of a sudden the dealer becomes the bad guy. In the end from what I'm reading there was some miss communication and the dealer is taking care of the issue. Something a simple phone call would of gotten taken care of much quicker.

[Megadan]

I have earned my right to my opinion on mechanics and safety as a EMAAS, former motorcycle mechanic, and riding instructor. Riding a bike with a known system fault on a critical safety system was incredibly foolish. You are lucky it didn't end up way worse.

[Thumper]

Where was the leak from?

Maybe the master cylinder is fine, but just ran out of fluid. Maybe a hose connection? Maybe it just needs to be reassembled (properly sealed) and refilled?

These bikes are not always assembled well. It is possible that the supplier that shipped the rear brake assembly to the KPX 250 assembly line just didn't have a perfect assembly record (QC). Chinese motorcycle brands definitely have higher failure rates on components.