Hawk DLX - Durability

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by sek8271

Right but some of the places that something like UTBDR goes can barely even be called "roads". More like jeep trails, or an obvious path through the rocks.

6"+ rock shelves, up and down. Very rough and rocky terrain. You WILL drop the bike in to rocks.

That's hard on any bike, I think it's reasonable to question if the suspension and chassis of a low cost machine can hold up to that kind of abuse (and it really is abuse, not use!)

Is this the kind of context you're commenting in?

If you hit any crankcase against a rock you can get unlike and crack it. Be it a BMW adventure 1200 or the cheapest motorcycle you can imagine, that's not about how it is build, but something that will happens.
I have seen quite a few cracked open YZ450F due accidents with rocks and is not because the engine is cheap or low cost.

About the chassis it can take the abuse and much more. The suspension will work as long you don't jump with it like it's a MX...

So you may want to tell me.
"If they are so durable, why they are not used more for off-road more often?".

Because if you ride with other people that have motorcycle with more punch it will be boring for you and they will ride a tad slower and wait for you.
Not fun for them, not fun for you.


Example:



Stock "Hawkesque 250" on a mountain range trails, as you can see the other riders who are friends of him, have to wait for him quite often. Which like is not fun for them and you fell bad because you know they are waiting for you.
That Motorcycle has over 90.000 km on mountain range trails, gravel, sand, snow. It's crappy but it works. Now is waiting for a new piston and valves.

The rock case you mention with an unlucky outcome for the chinese motorcyle. Had to use "JB Weld" on the case and limp back home.

He made a few case covers after that, but even if you have the best engine in the world and you got unlucky it would be the same.

Originally Posted by franque

I'm a mechanic myself, and I gave you my opinion. It really depends on how he wants to ride the bike, but I would expect the wheels to explode in short order if not ridden gently on the UTBDR.

I know they may seem a bit soft, but once laced with good spokes they are quite tough, of course that won't fix the crappy chrome job.

But the key is the lacing, even the best rim would break if the lacing is crappy.

[China Rider 27]

Using gas to clean the oil off surfaces so the JB Weld would stick. Put that one in the notebook.

I agree doesn't matter what you ride, bad luck can set on you. The BDR images I have seen show much riding on forest service roads so it is not like you are pounding the rocks for the whole way.

CG with CG probably the most pleasurable way to go about a BDR.

Those main roads look pretty smooth to me?

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by sek8271

Belly button? nipples? Could you elaborate, using the correct names for things?

I've never heard those terms before; I've only been riding for ten years or so and I'm neither a mechanic or aficionado, I just go out and have fun

First example. CG Motor. Pushrod, overhead valve. The button on the side of the cylinder that is actually a pivot point, also known as the belly button among most. Plus, the solid valve cover like an HD Panhead, also gives it away that it's a CG.

Second example. A CB motor. Overhead cam.
The nipples, as many reference, are the caps on top of the head for adjusting the rocker tappets. Also notice the lack of belly button and the round cam cap on top of the head.

[Boatguy]

I said it in the other thread about the RX3.

It’s down to how you treat the bike. ALL bikes will be durable enough to do any trail at all, unless you beat them up.

All bikes will fail if you treat them like crap.

It’s a matter of learning to ride properly out in the middle of nowhere and that means remembering the real danger you can get in if you’re careless and break your bike. It’s not so much the bike as it is the rider.

I cross oceans on boats. We absolutely never stress the sailing rig when weeks from any assistance. No matter how rough it is, you slow down and make your decisions thinking about how to best protect the rig from damage. You baby it.

It’s no different riding a bike in the middle of nowhere.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Boatguy

All bikes will fail if you treat them like crap.

Even sometimes the most expensive gear will take less abuse before it says good bye.. For example, which bicycle will take more abuse a cheap steel frame one or one made with the best carbon fiber bicycle out there.

[Magician16]

I watched a Top Gear episode, and they took rental cars through the worst Utah has to offer. The cars were mostly trashed when they got it done, but they made it, only having to use a winch a few times. Two of the cars were a Lincoln Town Car and a Toyota Yaris.
I would not be afraid to take my Magician through there in decent weather. It's the cheapest built China bike.I say decent weather because I don't like wet rocks or quick sand.

[sek8271]

Originally Posted by franque

I'm a mechanic myself, and I gave you my opinion. It really depends on how he wants to ride the bike, but I would expect the wheels to explode in short order if not ridden gently on the UTBDR.

I would think most people that do the TAT who also have factory wheels (on big 4 bikes) are probably not riding them too hard, because those trails are tough on man and machine. I'd look at putting on some DID or Excel rims to replace the factory equipment, regardless, except with the GPX.

I recommended the GPX because it's basically a budget KTM using modern, high quality components, and excepting the air cooled and 2t bikes they have, all of the motors are modern designs, the same cannot be said with a DR or DRZ.

Appreciate your taking the time to reply, I'll pass on your notes.

On the GPX, you mentioned it's 'basically a budget KTM' - is that a KTM designed engine? I specifically ask because he doesn't like KTM engines (most specifically, working on them.)

[sek8271]

2LZ - thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by sek8271

2LZ - thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant.

No sweat. It's all about education here.

[franque]

Nope, the liquid cooled 4t motors are not KTM copies, they're both clean sheet designs created for Zongshen, designed by Kiska design in Austria (they do some work for KTM).

They are relatively torquey and mildly tuned, that is to say there aren't any piston replacement intervals that are measured in hours. The 250 4t (now a 300 with a factory BBK) is the same motor as found in the RX3, a proven, long-lasting design.

The chassis are a copy of a KTM, and they use open chamber inverted forks that are way more modern than anything DR* on a Suzuki. They're apparently close to the 47mm Showa forks. Pro-tune suspension has worked them over if he's looking to send them out somewhere.

[Tractor Tom]

There are so many variables, it is hard to give more than a generalized answer to suitability for different trails. I know my Hawk is only 219cc so I don't expect the performance of my old Honda 250XR. I also changed the sprockets so I could go freeway speeds to reasonably get to my off-road adventures. I recently found that a liability on a nasty steep trail with 6"-8" drop off's. It kicked my ass and I went down 3 times. I can blame most of it on the 72 year old, 250lbs guy behind the handlebar. I had to walk it up several times but we (bike and I) both survived although I bent the crap out of the Tusk shifter I added, thanks to good advice on this forum. I always go back to my Harbor Freight analogy. I've been buying from them since the 70's and am still amazed that people bitch at stuff they buy for cheap doesn't hold up as well as the pro use brands (ironically, now even many the big name brands are Chinese made!). Overall, I am very satisfied, but to paraphrase one of Clint Eastwood's movie lines, "a man (and machine) has to know his limitations".