Apollo db36: upgrades pics, too lean and i'm blind? Please help

firstBike · 11-18-2020, 07:29 PM

Evening everyone. Almost done with this project (big thanks to the community) need some help jetting.

My bike: Apollo db36
This carb --->https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...im/refuge08-20 With 115 main jet, needle jet on 3rd notch down
Custom-ish intake
Removed SAI
I've attached some pics, not sure if it worked or not...

Just finished installing today, and the bike started right up, no choke (after adjusting the idle, had it in all the way when first started the bike, sorry neighbors)

So i ran the bike at around 1000rpm for 5 minutes or so with a brand new spark plug, took the plug out and i think it looks even cleaner? Lol.

Did this a couple times. The air screw is screwed in all the way. My thinking is that if its so lean i should move up on the pilot jet?

The carb came with a rebuild kit with an extra pilot jet. The pilot jet is the one the main jet screws into right? I cant find any numbers on the one provided nor the one currently in the carb. How do i know which jet to try next, and which jets i have?

People on here seem to suggest a 30 pilot and 115 main, so i put in a 115 main, but haven't taken it riding yet because i'm afraid it being too lean will harm the engine.

I am at 1020ft elevation (based on https://whatismyelevation.com)
Would appreciate any help. Thanks

Captcj68chris@aol. · 11-18-2020, 08:16 PM

Hi, my name is Chris, I just read your post. I saw the pic of the carb you said you had, you also said you have the. (Air) screw all the way in?. If you are doing that you are leaning out the mixture. Where that screw is on that carb is a fuel air screw turning it(in) clockwise will lean out the mixture, turning it out will richer the mixture. Rule of thumb on here is try setting that screw 1.5 turns out (counterclockwise) and see if that helps. As far as the main, pilot jets are concerned, they are separate. main jet is in the center, and the pilot is In between. The main jet and the air fuel screw

Captcj68chris@aol. · 11-18-2020, 08:33 PM

Hi, also the jets should be marked, you may need a magnifying glass to see, if not marked, use a magnifying glass to compare the holes in each of the jets in relation to the other. Pilot to pilot , main to main. It's kinda hard but some times it is a visible difference. When I ordered. Mains and pilots from eBay and Alibaba, they were all over the place in regards to what they were stamped. EXAMPLE. main jet marked 115 was visibly smaller than jet marked 105. And jets mark 150 was visibly smaller than 130! Pilot jets. Same thing, had to guess what size would work best. Must have had the carb off 25-30 times to swap out. Finally got some color on my plug. When it comes to jets order from a company. Like. JETSAREUS.com. expensive. But at least a jet marked 110 will be a 110! Keep us posted
SAFE RIDING

Plump Kibbles · 11-18-2020, 09:12 PM

Did you remove the catalytic converter from the exhaust? A cat without the SAI could lead to some issues; so I've heard.

But, take a look at the center post on your spark plug - the outer ceramic should be a nice creamy coffee color. Brown, but not mistaken for black - and light, but not white. If you see white spots, turn the mix screw counter clockwise 1/4 turn. If you see some darker color, turn clockwise 1/4 turn. Thankfully I haven't had to mess with the needle. I may see what jet is in there and go up one. But I got the same carb, 1.5 turns out and I'm smooth all the way up into 70MPH.

Plump Kibbles · 11-18-2020, 09:17 PM

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ main jets for your carb

If you're idling smooth, then you should be okay where the slow jet is...

firstBike · 11-18-2020, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captcj68chris@aol.

Hi, my name is Chris, I just read your post. I saw the pic of the carb you said you had, you also said you have the. (Air) screw all the way in?. If you are doing that you are leaning out the mixture. Where that screw is on that carb is a fuel air screw turning it(in) clockwise will lean out the mixture, turning it out will richer the mixture.

Hi Chris, and that is a face palm for me right there.

I thought turning the air screw clockwise made it richer. Thank you for this, i will try adjusting this screw tomorrow, and hopefully the spark plug will be a darker color so i don't have to take the carb out. It was such a PAIN getting the carb in, very little room for my hands to fit around the frame.

I'll post with results.

firstBike · 11-18-2020, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plump Kibbles

Did you remove the catalytic converter from the exhaust? A cat without the SAI could lead to some issues; so I've heard.

But I got the same carb, 1.5 turns out and I'm smooth all the way up into 70MPH.

Ohh...Do you know what kind of issues? Can anyone else confirm running into issues?

I just looked at https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=18209 and definitely don't want to go through that.

Also, my carb came with a 110 main jet, did yours come with the same? Did you leave it or also swap for a 115? What is your elevation?

Captcj68chris@aol. · 11-18-2020, 10:52 PM

Hi again 😁 your welcome, we are all here to help! We were all new at some point. You'll pick up information like a sponge with what you can find on these forums. Surf around, read old post, ask any questions you need. With a 115 main jet you should be ok, and if it starts right up and idled good than the pilot circuit should be ok to be safe enough to get you to break in the bike. If it seems to run,drive ok and does not exhibit obvious signs of problems ( glowing red exhaust, bogging out, surging, ETC.) Then proceed. One thing about these bikes that has been said by many members, many times and I found it true also is..... these bike change ,and loosen up as they break in and run better after 500 miles. Keep an eye on the plug, check it every 50 miles and see what's happening. Rack up some miles and enjoy your new bike!
My tbr7 came with a .88 main jet, #36 kehin (COLD START) jet. Bike started right up upon delivery and rode fine. NOW at about 500 miles. I have a main jet. "MARKED" 130 Air box lid removed, pilot jet "marked" #42, a/f screw 2 turns out. Bike is running real good, plug is showing some color now, still not the nice coffee color it should be. All these bike are a lil different. Guy not far from me at same elevation,and same exact bike has smaller jets in his carb and he says he's a lil rich. Also PLEASE check your valve clearance! All these bikes come with tight valve clearance. Plenty of YouTube videos on how to do it, it actually very easy to do. Important you check this.

Plump Kibbles · 11-19-2020, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstBike

Ohh...Do you know what kind of issues? Can anyone else confirm running into issues?

I just looked at https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=18209 and definitely don't want to go through that.

Also, my carb came with a 110 main jet, did yours come with the same? Did you leave it or also swap for a 115? What is your elevation?

I haven't had issues - but I'm about to do a cat gut on my bike pretty soon. Just need to get my welder going and give it some practice on a few scrap pipes. I have heard that you can run into some overheating issues, or just a clogged exhaust you'll have to replace - if bad enough. But, I did the exact same. Really cleans up that engine, huh? Mine is air cooled; do you have liquid cooling?

My elevation is 1,250′ in VA, probably 3-4 hours from the shore inland. I didn't crack open the carb yet just because I didn't feel like it needed anything else for now. Before I got my new sprocket for the rear, I was going to see what was in there - I'll assume it IS the 110 based on you've opened yours lol but, since the sprocket change I'm not sure if I'll do much more than up the main, open the mix about 1/4 more. And did you get a chance to see your plug color at the arc?

Big one - have you checked your valves? They come with absolutely NO gap.. I had really bad compression issues at first and couldn't kick start. After watching a few videos I finally popped my caps and did it - easy peasy.

Chris - you're right man. Definitely check every bolt or something that has a hex or philips, flat, or torx head for tightness. May want to even look at your rims to see if they're true and do that if need be. My stock carb is the PZ30 and thought it was just a sh!t carb, but ended up being valves! Spokes are a big one to check, my back ones particularly wanted to come out of true during break-in. Get cozy with YouTube and be one with the wrench - you'll almost have to be your own mechanic for your bike. Tried to get my rims trued and straight - local shop wouldn't do it. Said they couldn't "work on my model" of motorcycle... I guess because it's not Japanese - or possible that I didn't get it FROM that shop. So, be prepared to get pretty greasy and dirty! I've learned a lot so far, and honestly wouldn't go to a shop after doing almost everything so far on my own.

Last one (haha) - do you know if your engine is push rod or cams? My bike is a 2020 and came with a cam'd engine. Also makes a difference in setting the valve gapping. SOHC seems a little more involved. And I may be wrong on my terminology so anyone feel free to correct me! Mine seemed way easier than the older videos for the Hawks ~2017 models. I could be absolutely wrong though.

TxTaoRider · 11-19-2020, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captcj68chris@aol.

Hi again 😁 your welcome, we are all here to help! We were all new at some point. You'll pick up information like a sponge with what you can find on these forums. Surf around, read old post, ask any questions you need. With a 115 main jet you should be ok, and if it starts right up and idled good than the pilot circuit should be ok to be safe enough to get you to break in the bike. If it seems to run,drive ok and does not exhibit obvious signs of problems ( glowing red exhaust, bogging out, surging, ETC.) Then proceed. One thing about these bikes that has been said by many members, many times and I found it true also is..... these bike change ,and loosen up as they break in and run better after 500 miles. Keep an eye on the plug, check it every 50 miles and see what's happening. Rack up some miles and enjoy your new bike!
My tbr7 came with a .88 main jet, #36 kehin (COLD START) jet. Bike started right up upon delivery and rode fine. NOW at about 500 miles. I have a main jet. "MARKED" 130 Air box lid removed, pilot jet "marked" #42, a/f screw 2 turns out. Bike is running real good, plug is showing some color now, still not the nice coffee color it should be. All these bike are a lil different. Guy not far from me at same elevation,and same exact bike has smaller jets in his carb and he says he's a lil rich. Also PLEASE check your valve clearance! All these bikes come with tight valve clearance. Plenty of YouTube videos on how to do it, it actually very easy to do. Important you check this.

The difference in your main jet 130 size from your friend's main jet size is probably the brand of main jet you're using. A keihin style main jet of 130 is about the same as a Mikuni style 115... and usually both will fit in our carbs. Always stay with the same brand mains and you'll save tuning issues later.

firstBike · 12-05-2020, 04:56 PM

Hello everyone, sorry for the Delay in my update, went away for a bit.

Thank you to everyone who helped me out.

So i got the bike running, went for a little ride and BOY OH BOY does a new carb make a difference. I feel like i just bought a new bike. I had the bike running pretty good in terms of air/fuel ratio (based on the spark plug which was a nice caramel color). But the bike is now soo LEAN..not sure what happened.

I will make a new thread about this which would have a better suited title. Please look out

11-18-2020, 08:16 PM	#2
Captcj68chris@aol. Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Bowling greenK.Y. elev. <1000 ft Posts: 94	Carb Hi, my name is Chris, I just read your post. I saw the pic of the carb you said you had, you also said you have the. (Air) screw all the way in?. If you are doing that you are leaning out the mixture. Where that screw is on that carb is a fuel air screw turning it(in) clockwise will lean out the mixture, turning it out will richer the mixture. Rule of thumb on here is try setting that screw 1.5 turns out (counterclockwise) and see if that helps. As far as the main, pilot jets are concerned, they are separate. main jet is in the center, and the pilot is In between. The main jet and the air fuel screw
	1

11-18-2020, 10:52 PM	#8
Captcj68chris@aol. Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Bowling greenK.Y. elev. <1000 ft Posts: 94	First bike Hi again 😁 your welcome, we are all here to help! We were all new at some point. You'll pick up information like a sponge with what you can find on these forums. Surf around, read old post, ask any questions you need. With a 115 main jet you should be ok, and if it starts right up and idled good than the pilot circuit should be ok to be safe enough to get you to break in the bike. If it seems to run,drive ok and does not exhibit obvious signs of problems ( glowing red exhaust, bogging out, surging, ETC.) Then proceed. One thing about these bikes that has been said by many members, many times and I found it true also is..... these bike change ,and loosen up as they break in and run better after 500 miles. Keep an eye on the plug, check it every 50 miles and see what's happening. Rack up some miles and enjoy your new bike! My tbr7 came with a .88 main jet, #36 kehin (COLD START) jet. Bike started right up upon delivery and rode fine. NOW at about 500 miles. I have a main jet. "MARKED" 130 Air box lid removed, pilot jet "marked" #42, a/f screw 2 turns out. Bike is running real good, plug is showing some color now, still not the nice coffee color it should be. All these bike are a lil different. Guy not far from me at same elevation,and same exact bike has smaller jets in his carb and he says he's a lil rich. Also PLEASE check your valve clearance! All these bikes come with tight valve clearance. Plenty of YouTube videos on how to do it, it actually very easy to do. Important you check this.
	1

11-18-2020, 08:33 PM	#3
Captcj68chris@aol. Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Bowling greenK.Y. elev. <1000 ft Posts: 94	Hi, also the jets should be marked, you may need a magnifying glass to see, if not marked, use a magnifying glass to compare the holes in each of the jets in relation to the other. Pilot to pilot , main to main. It's kinda hard but some times it is a visible difference. When I ordered. Mains and pilots from eBay and Alibaba, they were all over the place in regards to what they were stamped. EXAMPLE. main jet marked 115 was visibly smaller than jet marked 105. And jets mark 150 was visibly smaller than 130! Pilot jets. Same thing, had to guess what size would work best. Must have had the carb off 25-30 times to swap out. Finally got some color on my plug. When it comes to jets order from a company. Like. JETSAREUS.com. expensive. But at least a jet marked 110 will be a 110! Keep us posted SAFE RIDING
	2

11-18-2020, 09:12 PM	#4
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	Did you remove the catalytic converter from the exhaust? A cat without the SAI could lead to some issues; so I've heard. But, take a look at the center post on your spark plug - the outer ceramic should be a nice creamy coffee color. Brown, but not mistaken for black - and light, but not white. If you see white spots, turn the mix screw counter clockwise 1/4 turn. If you see some darker color, turn clockwise 1/4 turn. Thankfully I haven't had to mess with the needle. I may see what jet is in there and go up one. But I got the same carb, 1.5 turns out and I'm smooth all the way up into 70MPH.
	1

11-18-2020, 09:17 PM	#5
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ main jets for your carb If you're idling smooth, then you should be okay where the slow jet is...
	1

12-05-2020, 04:56 PM	#11
firstBike Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 21	Hello everyone, sorry for the Delay in my update, went away for a bit. Thank you to everyone who helped me out. So i got the bike running, went for a little ride and BOY OH BOY does a new carb make a difference. I feel like i just bought a new bike. I had the bike running pretty good in terms of air/fuel ratio (based on the spark plug which was a nice caramel color). But the bike is now soo LEAN..not sure what happened. I will make a new thread about this which would have a better suited title. Please look out
	0