counterbalanced engine=more dependable?

[coolwhip27]

I once heard motocheez saying that the reason some of his hawk's stuff was rattling loose and breaking was because of no counterbalanced engine. He did state it as an opinion, but it makes me wonder. Would it be true that with a counterbalanced engine on a chinese motorcycle that things coming loose or breaking would be (greatly) decreased improving reliability? I'd like to hear some thoughts. I would spend the extra money for a storm if it's true to a large extent.

[letsride]

I have never riden a Hawk or any China bike with a NON counterbalanced CG engine. But I did spend some time with a Brozz that had a Counterbalanced Engine and it was smooth as silk. It didn't give you the tingling in your hands from vibrations either. As far as if the counterbalanced engine is more dependable over the Non, well that remains to be seen. There had been talk on here of the chain that drives the balance shaft becoming stretched, but I haven't seen a thread with pics to prove that to be true.

[Megadan]

I would consider them equal in terms of engine reliability.

As for things buzzing loose, the non balanced engines will have more issues with this, which is why lock washers and/or loctite are more important on the non balanced bikes.

As for the oil pump.chain thing. Technically a direct gear driven pump like those found in a non balanced engine will theoretically be more reliable as a default.

[Mudflap]

My balance shaft Lifan went 53,000 miles before becoming pretty noisy. The parts that wore out were those directly related to the balance shaft, the oil pump chain and sprockets, and the cush gear on the balance shaft. Anyway you can now get those parts pretty cheaply and they're easy enough to replace, and who keeps the bike for more than 50,000 miles.

My preference is still the non balance shaft engine. Feels more natural and doesn't vibrate excessively.

[OneLeggedRider]

Y'all dont know about actual vibration. I run a big bore 400 2-smoke that is highly modded AND has a gear driven counterbalancer. Every bolt on the machine has to have loctite or a lock washer and you still might have something come loose. I have an artificial leg and everything on it has to have loctite because of riding it.

I've been riding non counterbalanced 4 strokes for years and the vibration is negligible. And the idea of a chain driven counterbalancer would cause me alot of anxiety, chains stretch and fail.

[Mudflap]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Y'all dont know about actual vibration. I run a big bore 400 2-smoke that is highly modded AND has a gear driven counterbalancer. Every bolt on the machine has to have loctite or a lock washer and you still might have something come loose. I have an artificial leg and everything on it has to have loctite because of riding it.

I've been riding non counterbalanced 4 strokes for years and the vibration is negligible. And the idea of a chain driven counterbalancer would cause me alot of anxiety, chains stretch and fail.

The balance shaft on these engines is gear driven. When they added the balance shaft they had to move the oil pump farther away from the crankshaft, thus the need for chain rather than gear drive for the oil pump.

[pete]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Y'all dont know about actual vibration. I run a big bore 400 2-smoke that is highly modded AND has a gear driven counterbalancer.

Ok... for the life of me I can't place a 400 2T with a balance shaft...

what is it ?.... Pics would be great...



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[coolwhip27]

Originally Posted by letsride

I have never riden a Hawk or any China bike with a NON counterbalanced CG engine. But I did spend some time with a Brozz that had a Counterbalanced Engine and it was smooth as silk. It didn't give you the tingling in your hands from vibrations either. As far as if the counterbalanced engine is more dependable over the Non, well that remains to be seen. There had been talk on here of the chain that drives the balance shaft becoming stretched, but I haven't seen a thread with pics to prove that to be true.

I should have worded it a little differently. I dont mean the engine itself being more reliable but just the bike overall. Less problems and what not.

[coolwhip27]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I would consider them equal in terms of engine reliability.

As for things buzzing loose, the non balanced engines will have more issues with this, which is why lock washers and/or loctite are more important on the non balanced bikes.

As for the oil pump.chain thing. Technically a direct gear driven pump like those found in a non balanced engine will theoretically be more reliable as a default.

I guess what I'm asking is, will I have less problems with a bashan storm over say a hawk because of the CB engine? I dont want to be tightening stuff down all the time.

[OneLeggedRider]

Originally Posted by pete

Ok... for the life of me I can't place a 400 2T with a balance shaft...

what is it ?.... Pics would be great...



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Heehee, it's a Polars Scrambler 400L. Aeeon ported and polished jug, high dome piston, shaved flywheel and welded crank, UFO carb, tuned CD springs, Razor 800 belt, jap brake conversion, and stock pipe and reeds because they perform so well. It's a 20yr old sport utility that spanks newer 450's at the dirt drags and loves to carry the front wheels.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Mudflap

My balance shaft Lifan went 53,000 miles before becoming pretty noisy. The parts that wore out were those directly related to the balance shaft, the oil pump chain and sprockets, and the cush gear on the balance shaft. Anyway you can now get those parts pretty cheaply and they're easy enough to replace, and who keeps the bike for more than 50,000 miles.

My preference is still the non balance shaft engine. Feels more natural and doesn't vibrate excessively.

That's right! It was you! For the life of me, I couldn't remember who took their Lifan over 50k. These things really are super reliable.

My Hensim DB150's non-balance motors were very smooth. My Xmoto GY200 and Rhino (both non-balanced) are like riding blenders. The TT250 is definitely smoother.

Reliability? Well, the non-balanced motor has less parts....so it should be more reliable if 50k is considered low miles. ;-)

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by coolwhip27

I should have worded it a little differently. I dont mean the engine itself being more reliable but just the bike overall. Less problems and what not.

According to Harley riders, their bikes are the most reliable things on two wheels, yet if you look at a typical Harley service schedule there are regular "critical fastener checks" that need to be done to make sure the bike won't fall apart.

As far as the vibration affecting reliability, I would say no. I rode my Hawk almost every day for a year to get to work, run errands, etc. They are a tiny bit more work at first, but lock washers and loctite will prevent most potential vibration related bolt failures. Personally, balanced or not, I will still go over the bolts on the bike from time to time just as a matter of safety, usually when I do an oil change.

[RedCrowRides]

" I dont want to be tightening stuff down all the time."- Not trying to be rude or to offend you ,but if you take your time and locktite or lockwasher everything that needs it in the beginning, this shouldn't be required afterwards other than a very few things .


If tightening critical fasteners /spokes is going to be an issue for you, you may want to rethink purchasing any bike made in China ,even from the better Suppliers.These are not "ride it and throw it down til next time" Hondas and if you go into it expecting that , you are just going to be disappointed.they don't require a lot of "all the time" maintenance but they do require more than a Japanese Bike, that comes with owning one and you need to go into any potential purchase realizing that .

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

If tightening critical fasteners /spokes is going to be an issue for you, you may want to rethink purchasing any bike made in China ,even from the better Suppliers.These are not "ride it and throw it down til next time" Hondas and if you go into it expecting that , you are just going to be disappointed.they don't require a lot of "all the time" maintenance but they do require more than a Japanese Bike, that comes with owning one and you need to go into any potential purchase realizing that .

Japanese bikes suffer from the same kind of vibration issues. Most Honda dirt bike bolts come from the factory with thread locker already installed, or have a lock washer in place. Heck, even my VFR, a Flaship bike with a V4 engine specifically engineered to isolate secondary harmonics (vibration) can still buzz a bolt loose from time to time. Ask any VFR1200F owner about the kick stand bracket bolts. Even mine did it lol. A little Loctite 242 and a re-tightening, and they haven't even budged.

I think the only bike I have ever owned that had never vibrated a bolt loose was my Goldwing... which is kind of an obvious one. Smoothest engine I have ever owned.

Don't want to tighten spokes? Just don't buy a bike with spoke wheels. They all require occasional checks as a part of regular checks/services. That is a big reason why almost every road bike made in the last 20 years has had cast or forged wheels and only off road bikes come with spokes anymore - with a couple of exceptions here or there obviously.

Just from my own experience, more related to the topic at hand, I honestly don't find my Hawk, to be all that bad in terms of vibration. I have definitely ridden much worse! Sure, it's there, and at certain RPM and throttle positions it is definitely more prevalent, but the right set of bars or bar weights and/or brush guards with a good set of grips can all but eliminate the vibes from the bars, and I never had one complaint about the foot pegs - maybe because of the big thick sole boots I usually wear. In truth the only place I ever notice it is in the seat, and I just tell myself that if I ever have a pretty lady on my bike that she might appreciate it. What? I had to work in a dirty joke somewhere.

[pete]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Heehee, it's a Polars Scrambler 400L. Aeeon ported and polished jug, high dome piston, shaved flywheel and welded crank, UFO carb, tuned CD springs, Razor 800 belt, jap brake conversion, and stock pipe and reeds because they perform so well. It's a 20yr old sport utility that spanks newer 450's at the dirt drags and loves to carry the front wheels.

Haha.. ok..... that's why ..

Was thinking.... has someone built a bike I don't know about...



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