Best tranny for trail riding/hills/woods - Page 2

zackattack91 · 12-22-2016, 04:08 PM

Am I correct saying that the CVT can detect when you need more torque to get up a hill? Something maybe with the CDI?

zackattack91 · 12-22-2016, 05:17 PM

thanks guys for all your info. now i have to figure out if i want a utility or a sport. so i have a few questions. i like the looks of the sport models, but i dont like how everything is so wide open underneath. the utility looks more enclosed. are there any mechanical differences between the two? is the utility frame sturdier or thicker piping? or could you just swap plastics between the two if you wanted? are the frames different? positioning of the motor? im an outdoorsman, so the utility just seems like it would suit me better, but i also want to use it for hill climbing, and cruising through tight trails and such. im not going to be pulling logs or rounding up cattle with it. so what are the main differences between the utility and sport, and can you ride whatever a sport can with a utility?

**JerryHawk250** · 12-22-2016, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zackattack91

Am I correct saying that the CVT can detect when you need more torque to get up a hill? Something maybe with the CDI?

This YouTube video will explain it better that I can type it up. Its based off rpms of motor. the higher the rpm , the higher the gear ratio.

zackattack91 · 12-22-2016, 05:25 PM

thanks for the explanation. so the 125 is still a cvt, but the motor and the tranny share the same oil. the 150 however does not, and has a separate area for transmission fluid? because by nephew has a taotao 125 auto F-N-R, but i didnt think it was a belt driven clutch. just though it was give it gas and go with mechanical gears. would you mind explaining the difference between the oil bath type and the dry belt driven 150? thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

The CVT on the 125 is an oil bath type, quite similar to the small Honda motors, like the XR50. Very good and reliable system, but I don't know how much mass they can overcome.

The CVT on a GY6 scooter-based motor is a dry belt, and it's very tunable. You can buy higher quality belts, better clutch material, stiffer springs, assorted roller weights, etc. You can tune it to launch hard and dig in or tune it to come on soft for a gentle ride. They are an excellent design.

I've told this story before, but I used my 150 GY6 quad to pull Jr. dragsters 1/2 mile back to the pits. The dragster had a teenager in it, and my son was riding two-up with me on the quad. I was about 215lbs at the time, and he was probably about 125lbs back then. That quad took a beating and never complained. I still have it, and I've never changed the belt or the CVT parts.

zackattack91 · 12-22-2016, 05:26 PM

nice video, it kind of reminds me of the torque converter i had on my go kart but way more advanced.
after seeing the video, how well are the CVTs on taotaos and coolsters sealed. After putting the cover back on, is there a gasket of some sort to prevent water, dirt, mud and dust from getting inside?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

This YouTube video will explain it better that I can type it up. Its based off rpms of motor. the higher the rpm , the higher the gear ratio.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-22-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zackattack91

thanks guys for all your info. now i have to figure out if i want a utility or a sport. so i have a few questions. i like the looks of the sport models, but i dont like how everything is so wide open underneath. the utility looks more enclosed. are there any mechanical differences between the two? is the utility frame sturdier or thicker piping? or could you just swap plastics between the two if you wanted? are the frames different? positioning of the motor? im an outdoorsman, so the utility just seems like it would suit me better, but i also want to use it for hill climbing, and cruising through tight trails and such. im not going to be pulling logs or rounding up cattle with it. so what are the main differences between the utility and sport, and can you ride whatever a sport can with a utility?

The drivetrain on the 150's are all about the same. Not much difference in frames, its more just different plastic skins and front bumpers.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-22-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zackattack91

nice video, it kind of reminds me of the torque converter i had on my go kart but way more advanced.
after seeing the video, how well are the CVTs on taotaos and coolsters sealed. After putting the cover back on, is there a gasket of some sort to prevent water, dirt, mud and dust from getting inside?

No gaskets on mine, but I did put a snorkel on the air intake of the housing so water and mud doesn't go strait into it. I go through water But I don't fully submerge the atv and let it sit in water.

zackattack91 · 12-22-2016, 06:04 PM

Good idea, what octane gas do these engines require when they're stock? In NJ we have 10% ethanol. But I put startron in all my gas. I'm assuming at least 89. Is 93 necessary for the stock engine. If you did some piston mods I know you should use higher octane, but I mean stock what does taotao and coolster say in the manual to use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

No gaskets on mine, but I did put a snorkel on the air intake of the housing so water and mud doesn't go strait into it. I go through water But I don't fully submerge the atv and let it sit in water.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-23-2016, 06:51 PM

89 ethanol free Gas if possible. Ethanol tend to dry out the rubber hoses and float valve rubber.

Weldangrind · 12-28-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zackattack91

thanks for the explanation. so the 125 is still a cvt, but the motor and the tranny share the same oil. the 150 however does not, and has a separate area for transmission fluid? because by nephew has a taotao 125 auto F-N-R, but i didnt think it was a belt driven clutch. just though it was give it gas and go with mechanical gears. would you mind explaining the difference between the oil bath type and the dry belt driven 150? thanks.

The 125 is not a CVT, it is simply a centrifugal clutch; it is either engaged or it is not.

The video that was posted probably explains the dry CVT process better than I can. I'll relate that design to the 125 centrifugal clutch, to try and fill in the blanks.

Both systems use a centrifugal clutch; one is dry (the 150) and the other is bathed in oil (the 125). The dry system subsequently spins a belt that controls a continuously variable transmission (or CVT), whereas the wet system does not. In other words, the CVT acts like it has gears, because the ratio constantly changes with RPM, but the wet system acts like one gear only.

The torque converter on your go-kart is identical in concept to the 150 GY6 CVT, and the 125 wet centrifugal clutch is identical in concept to a simple centrifugal clutch that can also be used on a go-kart. The wet centrifugal clutch in a 125 is only bathed in oil for cooling and longevity.

The 125 centrifugal clutch setup shares oil between the clutch and crankshaft; the 150 CVT does not. In a 150, the crankshaft happily spins in oil that is not shared, so it does not need to be an oil that is suitable for a wet clutch. For this reason, I use 10W30 oil in my 150 GY6 CVT engine. The 125 centrifugal clutch should use oil that is wet-clutch compatible, like any 15W40 motorcycle oil. At the driven end of a 150 CVT, there is a set of gears within the housing, and they require gear oil; I use 75W90 synthetic oil for that.

zackattack91 · 01-03-2017, 07:25 AM

Thanks for the info!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

The 125 is not a CVT, it is simply a centrifugal clutch; it is either engaged or it is not.

The video that was posted probably explains the dry CVT process better than I can. I'll relate that design to the 125 centrifugal clutch, to try and fill in the blanks.

Both systems use a centrifugal clutch; one is dry (the 150) and the other is bathed in oil (the 125). The dry system subsequently spins a belt that controls a continuously variable transmission (or CVT), whereas the wet system does not. In other words, the CVT acts like it has gears, because the ratio constantly changes with RPM, but the wet system acts like one gear only.

The torque converter on your go-kart is identical in concept to the 150 GY6 CVT, and the 125 wet centrifugal clutch is identical in concept to a simple centrifugal clutch that can also be used on a go-kart. The wet centrifugal clutch in a 125 is only bathed in oil for cooling and longevity.

The 125 centrifugal clutch setup shares oil between the clutch and crankshaft; the 150 CVT does not. In a 150, the crankshaft happily spins in oil that is not shared, so it does not need to be an oil that is suitable for a wet clutch. For this reason, I use 10W30 oil in my 150 GY6 CVT engine. The 125 centrifugal clutch should use oil that is wet-clutch compatible, like any 15W40 motorcycle oil. At the driven end of a 150 CVT, there is a set of gears within the housing, and they require gear oil; I use 75W90 synthetic oil for that.

mr.drey · 06-14-2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

The 125 is not a CVT, it is simply a centrifugal clutch; it is either engaged or it is not.

The video that was posted probably explains the dry CVT process better than I can. I'll relate that design to the 125 centrifugal clutch, to try and fill in the blanks.

Both systems use a centrifugal clutch; one is dry (the 150) and the other is bathed in oil (the 125). The dry system subsequently spins a belt that controls a continuously variable transmission (or CVT), whereas the wet system does not. In other words, the CVT acts like it has gears, because the ratio constantly changes with RPM, but the wet system acts like one gear only.

The torque converter on your go-kart is identical in concept to the 150 GY6 CVT, and the 125 wet centrifugal clutch is identical in concept to a simple centrifugal clutch that can also be used on a go-kart. The wet centrifugal clutch in a 125 is only bathed in oil for cooling and longevity.

The 125 centrifugal clutch setup shares oil between the clutch and crankshaft; the 150 CVT does not. In a 150, the crankshaft happily spins in oil that is not shared, so it does not need to be an oil that is suitable for a wet clutch. For this reason, I use 10W30 oil in my 150 GY6 CVT engine. The 125 centrifugal clutch should use oil that is wet-clutch compatible, like any 15W40 motorcycle oil. At the driven end of a 150 CVT, there is a set of gears within the housing, and they require gear oil; I use 75W90 synthetic oil for that.

Weldangrind , thanks a lot!!!

This is so far the best explanation of the difference between 125 and 150 i could find. Appreciate it.

Darth Racer · 06-14-2018, 07:13 PM

On my minibike the torque converter has a setting. Loosen the rear pulley spring and you get more speed. Tighten the spring and you get more torque. Not sure if the CVT on atv's have a click type setting like my TAV2 torque converter does, but maybe you can get heavier springs.

That little minibike can climb anything. I did however run through a couple of belts for the torque converter. Not a bad idea to learn how to change them and bring a spare (and tools needed). It did kept me from doing the long push back on one occasion. Only took 10 minutes to swap it out.

With a centrifugal gokart clutch on it I galled the crap out of it on the first use hauling my gear. To the point it was actually glued to the housing. Had to hit the kill switch to stop.

Weldangrind · 06-15-2018, 11:03 AM

The TAV2 is a pretty cool system for converting a horizontal utility engine to a CVT minibike or go-kart. The GY6 does not have a similar simple adjustment to tailor torque or speed, but it is quite adjustable by swapping the roller weights.

I said in post #25 above that the dry system subsequently spins a belt that controls the CVT. That's not exactly correct, because it implies that the centrifugal clutch is first in the series; it is not. It is the variator that is directly spun off of the crankshaft, whereas the centrifugal clutch is subsequently driven by the belt.

Both the variator and the clutch can be tailored to meet your needs.

Darth Racer · 06-16-2018, 01:24 AM

Ok I follow you. Is it possible to change the output sprocket to a smaller one for more low end? I know you can do the rear sprocket to a larger one which is easy enough.

I'm a bit curious about these setups because dad is debating getting one of these http://www.kandiusa.com/product_veh.php?id=348 for when we go prospecting together. He found a place that sells them new for 1700. Not sure if I can set it up to move 400+ lbs of adults and 400lbs of gear though.

12-22-2016, 05:17 PM	#17
zackattack91 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: New Jersey Posts: 86	utility or sport? thanks guys for all your info. now i have to figure out if i want a utility or a sport. so i have a few questions. i like the looks of the sport models, but i dont like how everything is so wide open underneath. the utility looks more enclosed. are there any mechanical differences between the two? is the utility frame sturdier or thicker piping? or could you just swap plastics between the two if you wanted? are the frames different? positioning of the motor? im an outdoorsman, so the utility just seems like it would suit me better, but i also want to use it for hill climbing, and cruising through tight trails and such. im not going to be pulling logs or rounding up cattle with it. so what are the main differences between the utility and sport, and can you ride whatever a sport can with a utility?
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12-23-2016, 06:51 PM	#24
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,590	89 ethanol free Gas if possible. Ethanol tend to dry out the rubber hoses and float valve rubber. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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06-15-2018, 11:03 AM	#29
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	The TAV2 is a pretty cool system for converting a horizontal utility engine to a CVT minibike or go-kart. The GY6 does not have a similar simple adjustment to tailor torque or speed, but it is quite adjustable by swapping the roller weights. I said in post #25 above that the dry system subsequently spins a belt that controls the CVT. That's not exactly correct, because it implies that the centrifugal clutch is first in the series; it is not. It is the variator that is directly spun off of the crankshaft, whereas the centrifugal clutch is subsequently driven by the belt. Both the variator and the clutch can be tailored to meet your needs. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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12-22-2016, 04:08 PM	#16
zackattack91 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: New Jersey Posts: 86	Am I correct saying that the CVT can detect when you need more torque to get up a hill? Something maybe with the CDI?
	0

06-14-2018, 07:13 PM	#28
Darth Racer Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: MD Posts: 558	On my minibike the torque converter has a setting. Loosen the rear pulley spring and you get more speed. Tighten the spring and you get more torque. Not sure if the CVT on atv's have a click type setting like my TAV2 torque converter does, but maybe you can get heavier springs. That little minibike can climb anything. I did however run through a couple of belts for the torque converter. Not a bad idea to learn how to change them and bring a spare (and tools needed). It did kept me from doing the long push back on one occasion. Only took 10 minutes to swap it out. With a centrifugal gokart clutch on it I galled the crap out of it on the first use hauling my gear. To the point it was actually glued to the housing. Had to hit the kill switch to stop.
	1

06-16-2018, 01:24 AM	#30
Darth Racer Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: MD Posts: 558	Ok I follow you. Is it possible to change the output sprocket to a smaller one for more low end? I know you can do the rear sprocket to a larger one which is easy enough. I'm a bit curious about these setups because dad is debating getting one of these http://www.kandiusa.com/product_veh.php?id=348 for when we go prospecting together. He found a place that sells them new for 1700. Not sure if I can set it up to move 400+ lbs of adults and 400lbs of gear though.
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