BRAKES

bfe71730 · 07-15-2006, 11:43 PM

OK guys, we've all made posts about out bikes running better faster, longer, ect, now we need to talk about stopping. Has anyone found a compatible cross reference for the brake pads and shoes? My rear is about 3/4's on the wear mark. The front disc still has plenty of wear left. I just bought an o-ring chain and thought I'd change out the brake shoes at the same time. I've got 2000 miles on it now and this is the only thing that needs to be replaced in the next few months, just typical wear items. Does anyone have problems with their disc brakes squeaking or whining, mine has done it since day 1.

joerocker · 07-16-2006, 08:35 AM

Is it dragging?

That's a LOT of wear in a short time.

How much do you use the back brake?

tzrider · 07-16-2006, 09:30 AM

GOOD THREAD. I'll add the answer to my compatibility list I'm compiling when someone comes up with an answer.

I'd like to be able to get EBC pads on the front.

bfe71730 · 07-16-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Is it dragging?

That's a LOT of wear in a short time.

nope, they never have done that, the front disc has alweays squealed when I would use it. I use the rear brake most of the time, I've never known drum brakes to last long as disc brakes, unless they were sealed, on a motorcycle. I could probably make it to 3000 miles on the original shoes and chain, the owners manual suggests 4000km which = 2485miles so I guess that's about average wear.

joerocker · 07-16-2006, 11:29 AM

I almost NEVER use my rear brake. What, 90+% of your braking is done by the front. The only time I use my back brake (we're talking the street here) is when I'm just cruising along no-hands and want to slow down. Usually coming down a hill.

Those are some soft-ass pads! Wow! 2500 miles is it? I can't believe it...

sheadouglas · 07-16-2006, 11:44 AM

my rear brake started to drag. I adjusted the rear brake bolt or whatever its called and it helped a little. I can still hear it a little. Also, my front brakes seem to have a little whine to them. Not much though. My front rim seems to have just a slight whobble. I think that is what's causing it but im not sure. I have only ridden motorcycles for 500 miles in my whole life (1 month) so I dont know a lot about these type things. Can tightening my spokes too much cause the rim to get out of balance?

tzrider · 07-16-2006, 04:32 PM

Just remember, when you tighten your chain, your rear brake will also tighten and can start dragging. So, when you adjust your chain, remember to adjust your brake.

You can mess up the rim true by tightening spokes, but not balance. Actually, the effect is worse.

Beerslayer · 07-16-2006, 06:41 PM

Adjusting the tension on your spokes can easily put your wheel out of true, and that could foul up your brakes.

One time I got the bright idea of riding my mountain bike down this particularly interesting looking section of railroad track. When I got back to the house I noticed that all of my spokes were loose.

I didn't have a spoke wrench, so I got out a pair of needle nose vise grips and started tightening. That threw my wheel WAY out. It was a mess.

You have to be very careful when tightening spokes, and the tension on them must be even.

tzrider · 07-16-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerslayer

Adjusting the tension on your spokes can easily put your wheel out of true, and that could foul up your brakes.

One time I got the bright idea of riding my mountain bike down this particularly interesting looking section of railroad track. When I got back to the house I noticed that all of my spokes were loose.

I didn't have a spoke wrench, so I got out a pair of needle nose vise grips and started tightening. That threw my wheel WAY out. It was a mess.

You have to be very careful when tightening spokes, and the tension on them must be even.

How's it gonna mess up the brakes in a motorcycle drum? It'll wiggle and hop, but the brakes won't be affected by a wheel out of true. A bicycle has caliper brakes that pinch the rim, they'd be messed up by an out of true wheel, but not a hub drum brake or disc.

Truing the wheel is tedious and a PITA and time consuming, but not really difficult. When I first did one, I used a dial indicator, but that's over-kill. You can eyeball it and get it good 'nuf. If it runs out of true very far, though, the rim can get warped and then it's going to be a REAL pain to true. Might not be able to if it's warped too bad.

For routine spoke maintenance, before they get too loose, just whack 'em with a screw driver and make sure they all play a tune.

If one goes thunk, it needs tightening.

sheadouglas · 07-16-2006, 10:22 PM

I do think I may have overtightened my spokes on the front rim. Should I go back and maybe let off them just a touch and see what happens? I havent been riding too much lately, but maybe before I get on it again I will slightly loosen the spokes. I did crank down on them not knowing I could go too tight. Thanks for the info fellas.

ohbowhntr · 07-17-2006, 12:02 AM

Brakes are still good here, but I've adjusted the rear (drum) brake once at about 600 miles. Front brakes are good, no issues there. I must agree with TZ here though, I don't see how you can have brake issue from an out-of-balance rim,because the brake stuff is all attached to the axle, separate of the actual rim, esp. on the dual disc brake bikes. I'm listening to hear the answer in the "Which pads will fit??" question though.

tzrider · 07-17-2006, 09:24 AM

I wouldn't worry much about spokes being "too tight", but when you tighten spokes, you need to make sure you don't get the wheel out of true. It should roll without wobble. You'll notice the spokes come from opposing sides of the hub in a pattern. If you tighten one side a little, tighten the one closest to it from the other side an equal amount. The rim should roll true in two planes, perpendicular and parallel.

Beerslayer · 07-17-2006, 01:37 PM

You guys are right, I don't think a wheel out of true can effect the brakes. I was thinking that the disk could get a little warped, but thinking it through, it can't because it is attached to the hub, not the wheel.

If the wheel is already out of true then it might be a bit of a project to get it straight.

Here is a ghetto way to true up your front wheel.

1) Put bike up on work stand so front wheel can spin free, pony keg and a board will work in a pinch, that's what I use.

2) back off the tension on the spokes until you can wiggle them a little.

3) If you don't have a dial indicator, find something to clamp on your front forks so that it sticks out next to the rim almost touching.

4) Start taking up the tension on the spokes just a little. Be sure to do it evenly, tighten them in pairs, maybe tighten a pair on one side of the rim, then the opposite, then 90 degrees, then opposite, until you get a little tension on the rim - just a little.

5) Spin the rim and watch the clearance from the object you clamped on the forks [a stick?]. If the clearance varies, mark the worst spot with a piece of masking tape or the sticker off of the pony keg the bike is sitting on. Tighten a spoke on the opposite side from a part of the rim that portrudes.

This is the trial and error part, mostly error. Be patient, watch what happens when you tighten or loosen a spoke connected to that area of the rim.

You can pull a rim back to true if it is not too bad. When you are done the spokes should have fairly even tension. You can thunk them with wrench or screwdriver and listen to the sound to tell if they are close.

You will need lots of patience but you can do it.

IronFist · 07-22-2007, 02:05 AM

I've read a lot about the rear disk locking up. I have drum brakes. I've had the back tire off, and I'm new, maybe I didn't reassemble properly. I ride street, and use 20% back brake all the time. Yesterday I tapped the foot brake and i thought I hit a pop can. Like the foot lever kicked back. It does not happen all the time, maybe 1 in 40. It never happened before I pulled the rear tire. That's why I figure it's something I messed up while re-assembling. Any thoughts and suggestions are apprecieated.

knothead · 07-22-2007, 02:50 PM

What Beerslayer said is almost exactly the way I trued my wheels, except I put my bike on a milk crate (milk vs. beer? I'm such a pantywaist!

). I also made a truing stand with some clamps and jackstands... I did the rear on the bike though. You can use a scewdriver instead of a dial indicator, just something as a reference. Just watch not to pull the rim off center.

I've been looking to see what brakes will interchange on these bikes. No luck so far, but I'm seriously thinking about taking my pads and shoes to the local shop and asking them if they look familiar.

07-15-2006, 11:43 PM	#1
bfe71730 Join Date: May 2006 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 198	BRAKES OK guys, we've all made posts about out bikes running better faster, longer, ect, now we need to talk about stopping. Has anyone found a compatible cross reference for the brake pads and shoes? My rear is about 3/4's on the wear mark. The front disc still has plenty of wear left. I just bought an o-ring chain and thought I'd change out the brake shoes at the same time. I've got 2000 miles on it now and this is the only thing that needs to be replaced in the next few months, just typical wear items. Does anyone have problems with their disc brakes squeaking or whining, mine has done it since day 1. __________________ 2004 KAZUMA CHEETAH 200 2001 Yamaha Big Bear 400 1986 Honda ATC 250ES 1983 Honda ATC 200X 1974 Kawasaki KE100
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07-16-2006, 11:44 AM	#6
sheadouglas Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi Posts: 349	brakes dragging my rear brake started to drag. I adjusted the rear brake bolt or whatever its called and it helped a little. I can still hear it a little. Also, my front brakes seem to have a little whine to them. Not much though. My front rim seems to have just a slight whobble. I think that is what's causing it but im not sure. I have only ridden motorcycles for 500 miles in my whole life (1 month) so I dont know a lot about these type things. Can tightening my spokes too much cause the rim to get out of balance?
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07-17-2006, 12:02 AM	#11
ohbowhntr Join Date: May 2006 Location: OHIO Posts: 61	Brakes are still good here, but I've adjusted the rear (drum) brake once at about 600 miles. Front brakes are good, no issues there. I must agree with TZ here though, I don't see how you can have brake issue from an out-of-balance rim,because the brake stuff is all attached to the axle, separate of the actual rim, esp. on the dual disc brake bikes. I'm listening to hear the answer in the "Which pads will fit??" question though. __________________ ~~ DOUG ~~
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07-16-2006, 08:35 AM	#2
joerocker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: SE AL Posts: 14	Is it dragging? That's a LOT of wear in a short time. How much do you use the back brake?
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07-16-2006, 09:30 AM	#3
tzrider Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas by gawd! Posts: 407	GOOD THREAD. I'll add the answer to my compatibility list I'm compiling when someone comes up with an answer. I'd like to be able to get EBC pads on the front.
	0

07-16-2006, 11:29 AM	#5
joerocker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: SE AL Posts: 14	I almost NEVER use my rear brake. What, 90+% of your braking is done by the front. The only time I use my back brake (we're talking the street here) is when I'm just cruising along no-hands and want to slow down. Usually coming down a hill. Those are some soft-ass pads! Wow! 2500 miles is it? I can't believe it...
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07-16-2006, 04:32 PM	#7
tzrider Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas by gawd! Posts: 407	Just remember, when you tighten your chain, your rear brake will also tighten and can start dragging. So, when you adjust your chain, remember to adjust your brake. You can mess up the rim true by tightening spokes, but not balance. Actually, the effect is worse.
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07-16-2006, 06:41 PM	#8
Beerslayer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 188	Adjusting the tension on your spokes can easily put your wheel out of true, and that could foul up your brakes. One time I got the bright idea of riding my mountain bike down this particularly interesting looking section of railroad track. When I got back to the house I noticed that all of my spokes were loose. I didn't have a spoke wrench, so I got out a pair of needle nose vise grips and started tightening. That threw my wheel WAY out. It was a mess. You have to be very careful when tightening spokes, and the tension on them must be even.
	0

07-16-2006, 10:22 PM	#10
sheadouglas Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hattiesburg, Mississippi Posts: 349	I do think I may have overtightened my spokes on the front rim. Should I go back and maybe let off them just a touch and see what happens? I havent been riding too much lately, but maybe before I get on it again I will slightly loosen the spokes. I did crank down on them not knowing I could go too tight. Thanks for the info fellas.
	0

07-17-2006, 09:24 AM	#12
tzrider Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas by gawd! Posts: 407	I wouldn't worry much about spokes being "too tight", but when you tighten spokes, you need to make sure you don't get the wheel out of true. It should roll without wobble. You'll notice the spokes come from opposing sides of the hub in a pattern. If you tighten one side a little, tighten the one closest to it from the other side an equal amount. The rim should roll true in two planes, perpendicular and parallel.
	0

07-17-2006, 01:37 PM	#13
Beerslayer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 188	You guys are right, I don't think a wheel out of true can effect the brakes. I was thinking that the disk could get a little warped, but thinking it through, it can't because it is attached to the hub, not the wheel. If the wheel is already out of true then it might be a bit of a project to get it straight. Here is a ghetto way to true up your front wheel. 1) Put bike up on work stand so front wheel can spin free, pony keg and a board will work in a pinch, that's what I use. 2) back off the tension on the spokes until you can wiggle them a little. 3) If you don't have a dial indicator, find something to clamp on your front forks so that it sticks out next to the rim almost touching. 4) Start taking up the tension on the spokes just a little. Be sure to do it evenly, tighten them in pairs, maybe tighten a pair on one side of the rim, then the opposite, then 90 degrees, then opposite, until you get a little tension on the rim - just a little. 5) Spin the rim and watch the clearance from the object you clamped on the forks [a stick?]. If the clearance varies, mark the worst spot with a piece of masking tape or the sticker off of the pony keg the bike is sitting on. Tighten a spoke on the opposite side from a part of the rim that portrudes. This is the trial and error part, mostly error. Be patient, watch what happens when you tighten or loosen a spoke connected to that area of the rim. You can pull a rim back to true if it is not too bad. When you are done the spokes should have fairly even tension. You can thunk them with wrench or screwdriver and listen to the sound to tell if they are close. You will need lots of patience but you can do it.
	0

07-22-2007, 02:05 AM	#14
IronFist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 2,585	I've read a lot about the rear disk locking up. I have drum brakes. I've had the back tire off, and I'm new, maybe I didn't reassemble properly. I ride street, and use 20% back brake all the time. Yesterday I tapped the foot brake and i thought I hit a pop can. Like the foot lever kicked back. It does not happen all the time, maybe 1 in 40. It never happened before I pulled the rear tire. That's why I figure it's something I messed up while re-assembling. Any thoughts and suggestions are apprecieated.
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07-22-2007, 02:50 PM	#15
knothead Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the land of the busted up ricebowl Posts: 815	What Beerslayer said is almost exactly the way I trued my wheels, except I put my bike on a milk crate (milk vs. beer? I'm such a pantywaist! ). I also made a truing stand with some clamps and jackstands... I did the rear on the bike though. You can use a scewdriver instead of a dial indicator, just something as a reference. Just watch not to pull the rim off center. I've been looking to see what brakes will interchange on these bikes. No luck so far, but I'm seriously thinking about taking my pads and shoes to the local shop and asking them if they look familiar.
	0