What exactly IS the difference between 4 stroke oil and car

buymore · 05-30-2007, 10:16 PM

I see the minimum rating requirements on the sticker of my Roketa DB-05 are met by Castrol 15-40 car oil?, but on the other hand, I do see that some guys are getting much cooler running bikes using 4 stroke motorcycle oil, but why? Basically what is different and what would it hurt to run the Castrol 15w-40 in my bike? That's what I have in it right now, but it only has 60 miles on that oil and it was done 3-4 miles at a time, then shut off. I never got the bike hot even. Thanks

AZ200cc · 05-30-2007, 10:43 PM

I won't try to advise You but I found a very good article explaing oil types and so on..Good read.

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/What_...uld_You_Use%3F

jkomp316 · 05-31-2007, 12:53 AM

I ran straight 10w30 car oil in a brand new Kawi for a couple years. Never had any engine problems, but the original clutch was gone after 4k miles. Couldve been my newbie riding i guess, but I blamed the oil.

30-Arider · 05-31-2007, 12:14 PM

I beleive that more importantly than the brand or type of oil one uses is the frequency of changing it often. I worked for A Honda, Yamaha, Kaw, Suz dealer in the late 80's through early 90's. Each brands own oil I found out was made by a typical motor oil company...same bottles different sticker and one of the honda tech guys secretly revealed to me that the GN4 oil I was selling for $2.95 per quart was nothing more than the same Kendall motor oil sold at the auto store for .88 per quart.

I feel like aq broken record but on a bike with one piston, running consistent 4,5,6000 RPM's, air cooled only, it is my opinion to change the oil frequent as possible more so than the brand you use. JMO.

red2003 · 05-31-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30-Arider

I beleive that more importantly than the brand or type of oil one uses is the frequency of changing it often. I worked for A Honda, Yamaha, Kaw, Suz dealer in the late 80's through early 90's. Each brands own oil I found out was made by a typical motor oil company...same bottles different sticker and one of the honda tech guys secretly revealed to me that the GN4 oil I was selling for $2.95 per quart was nothing more than the same Kendall motor oil sold at the auto store for .88 per quart.

I feel like aq broken record but on a bike with one piston, running consistent 4,5,6000 RPM's, air cooled only, it is my opinion to change the oil frequent as possible more so than the brand you use. JMO.

I think that's good advice! The more I read about motorcycle oil, the less good I feel about running a $12.00 quart of Royal Purple in my bike :( . That would have bought 3 or 4 oil changes of the Valvoline 10w40 I was running for break-in, with just as good results, I am sure.

liverchip · 05-31-2007, 01:30 PM

I have heard "Formulated for wet clutches" batted around. Any truth to this statement? I have run both auto and cycle oil in my bike and have noticed no difference in clutch action whatsoever.

NewEnglandTrails · 05-31-2007, 03:46 PM

Seems like there has been alot of discussion of motor oils on here lately, I know one of my earliest questions posted was about what type of oil to use in my china engine. Ive noticed several of the new members have also asked the same question.

While there may be a lack of concensus about the best oils to use:

Perhaps it would be good to include something in the Tech info section about motor oils or even links like the one in this thread so people can decide for themselves. This would also help to share the info with the ATVers, scooter and street riders that may not go into the ds/enduro threads.

That is unless of course the dealers like EJ and RPM etc. could provide a concensus among professionals dealing with these chinese engines as to the the best oils to run.

NET

buymore · 05-31-2007, 06:17 PM

My manual and the sticker on the bikes say "use high quality 4 stroke oil 15w-40qe in SE or SG" I think. Nothing about "motorcycle oil" The Castrol 15w-40 I have in it right now meets those ratings. A friend at work said his brother works at a cycle shop and the shop owner said the additives in car/truck oil will make a wet clutch slip too much? I'll do more research before I spend the extra $$ when mymanual says "4 stroke oil" Should be ok?

mdsuave13 · 05-31-2007, 06:31 PM

i change my oil around every 250 km's. That is a bit of overkill i think, but seeing as it takes 1 quart exactly give or take .1 of a quart... why not, i just use mobil 1 20w-50 high performance "car" oil. It is ok with wet clutches. Works great, not a problem, not even in this begginings of summer heat.

When i was in my first 500 km's i changed my oil with castrol gtx 15w-40 "car" oil every 100 km's.

Overall my engine sounds and runs fantastic. I clean my little screen with each oil change and re-gap or replace my plug and its good to go..

I figure i am spending maybe 3-5 dollars per oil change, but who cares, if its helping the motor last longer and run smoother, why not.

Ferrit · 05-31-2007, 08:18 PM

What Liverchip and Buymore are referring to are some of the newer oils that contain "friction enhancers". These are usually a type of moly-d or other super slick compound. This is one of the reasons that you are seeing more motorcycle specific oils as they will definitely NOT have these friction modifiers in them whereas an automotive oil may or may not. Usually a quick read of the label will reveal if these compounds are included. Sometimes the oil is marketed as "high mileage" or "increased gas mileage" oils.

Having grown up and retired from military aviation I am a firm believer in oil analysis. Our local Shaefer Oil rep does samples rather cheaply (doesn't hurt that I buy oil from him in 30 gal drums). Based on past experiences I'm planning on changing the full synthetic oil that I run every 2500 miles or so. If I ran dino oil I would change it every 1000 miles or so. I routinely run my car for 10-12k miles between oil changes.

STcoldcrzy · 06-01-2007, 12:07 PM

i found the topic line funny because a car is a 4 stroke ...just a random thought

...ok joking aside
i have been a mechanic for years and rebuilt many engines.
it comes down to how often you change the oil more then the oil your using if your using cheap 88 cent oil change it more often...

think about the engines rotating mass small engine vs larger car motor common sense tells you larger motor more rotating mass = more friction
look at the bottom end of a car motor vs the bike car has main bearings that depend on oil pressure vs bike motor with true bearings the do not rely on pressure just the oil to be there

buymore · 06-01-2007, 02:31 PM

I finally found an NGK plug for my Roketa DB05 at a local KTM dealer. I asked him about the oil and he said he would just use regular motor oil. He said his race bikes get the high dollar stuff, but mostly because it's FREE from the sponser! I have Castrol 15w-40 in it and I'm going to leave it for at least 1000 miles (of course to know when I get there, I'll have to do the KM conversion because my odometer is still KM) Speedo is in MPH and fairly accurate though! I took a 25 mile ride today, longest ride so far, and it was just a little rough on my hieney! Not too bad though. I feel comfortable to make the trip everyday to work now. I hated riding it to work when I wasn't really going to work, but I took the exact route to see how long and how it would be. Then I hurried up, and high tailed it home!!!! Before someone saw me and asked me to come to work!

Still no loose bolts on it at 125 km's. Everything just fine.

fatboy250 · 06-01-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buymore

I hated riding it to work when I wasn't really going to work, but I took the exact route to see how long and how it would be. Then I hurried up, and high tailed it home!!!! Before someone saw me and asked me to come to work!

Sounds like Dad...any excuse just to ride his new bike. :roll: But then too, I remember back what it was like the first time I got a bike.

Jason

IronFist · 06-01-2007, 11:41 PM

oops 8O

TeamCheap · 06-03-2007, 02:57 PM

I still think the main concern with motor oil used in a motorcycle is if it has friction modifiers(<BAD for wet clutch) in it, other than that motor oil is motor oil.
I'm still talking about good old DINO oil not the fancy synthetic oil.

Yes of course it has to be formulated for 4-stroke GASOLINE engines (not diesels) and be of the correct viscosity with NO friction modifiers.

05-30-2007, 10:16 PM	#1
buymore Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 28	What exactly IS the difference between 4 stroke oil and car I see the minimum rating requirements on the sticker of my Roketa DB-05 are met by Castrol 15-40 car oil?, but on the other hand, I do see that some guys are getting much cooler running bikes using 4 stroke motorcycle oil, but why? Basically what is different and what would it hurt to run the Castrol 15w-40 in my bike? That's what I have in it right now, but it only has 60 miles on that oil and it was done 3-4 miles at a time, then shut off. I never got the bike hot even. Thanks
	0

05-30-2007, 10:43 PM	#2
AZ200cc Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Show Low Arizona Posts: 2,889	I won't try to advise You but I found a very good article explaing oil types and so on..Good read. http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/What_...uld_You_Use%3F __________________ <br />2001 Suzuki DR200SE<br />1997 Suzuki RM250 YIKES<br />1995 Yamaha Breeze 125 daughters<br />1991 Honda XR80r Restored<br />maybe a 2003 Yamaha TTR90
	0

05-31-2007, 01:30 PM	#6
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	I have heard "Formulated for wet clutches" batted around. Any truth to this statement? I have run both auto and cycle oil in my bike and have noticed no difference in clutch action whatsoever. __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
	0

05-31-2007, 03:46 PM	#7
NewEnglandTrails Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Quiet Corner of CT. Posts: 387	Seems like there has been alot of discussion of motor oils on here lately, I know one of my earliest questions posted was about what type of oil to use in my china engine. Ive noticed several of the new members have also asked the same question. While there may be a lack of concensus about the best oils to use: Perhaps it would be good to include something in the Tech info section about motor oils or even links like the one in this thread so people can decide for themselves. This would also help to share the info with the ATVers, scooter and street riders that may not go into the ds/enduro threads. That is unless of course the dealers like EJ and RPM etc. could provide a concensus among professionals dealing with these chinese engines as to the the best oils to run. NET __________________ 2006 HIBIRD QH200-st atv, 2005 Kinroad 200GY-01, 2006 Roketa DB-05, 1980 Kawasaki KZ440 LTD
	0

05-31-2007, 06:31 PM	#9
mdsuave13 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ellicott city, Maryland Posts: 857	i change my oil around every 250 km's. That is a bit of overkill i think, but seeing as it takes 1 quart exactly give or take .1 of a quart... why not, i just use mobil 1 20w-50 high performance "car" oil. It is ok with wet clutches. Works great, not a problem, not even in this begginings of summer heat. When i was in my first 500 km's i changed my oil with castrol gtx 15w-40 "car" oil every 100 km's. Overall my engine sounds and runs fantastic. I clean my little screen with each oil change and re-gap or replace my plug and its good to go.. I figure i am spending maybe 3-5 dollars per oil change, but who cares, if its helping the motor last longer and run smoother, why not. __________________ My name is Justin, my friends call me Stix. 2008 Kawasaki KLR650 Candy Lime Green ______________________________ I am the official China bike registration Guru For the State of Maryland..... HA.
	0

05-31-2007, 12:53 AM	#3
jkomp316 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 145	I ran straight 10w30 car oil in a brand new Kawi for a couple years. Never had any engine problems, but the original clutch was gone after 4k miles. Couldve been my newbie riding i guess, but I blamed the oil.
	0

05-31-2007, 12:14 PM	#4
30-Arider Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 54	I beleive that more importantly than the brand or type of oil one uses is the frequency of changing it often. I worked for A Honda, Yamaha, Kaw, Suz dealer in the late 80's through early 90's. Each brands own oil I found out was made by a typical motor oil company...same bottles different sticker and one of the honda tech guys secretly revealed to me that the GN4 oil I was selling for $2.95 per quart was nothing more than the same Kendall motor oil sold at the auto store for .88 per quart. I feel like aq broken record but on a bike with one piston, running consistent 4,5,6000 RPM's, air cooled only, it is my opinion to change the oil frequent as possible more so than the brand you use. JMO.
	0

05-31-2007, 06:17 PM	#8
buymore Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 28	My manual and the sticker on the bikes say "use high quality 4 stroke oil 15w-40qe in SE or SG" I think. Nothing about "motorcycle oil" The Castrol 15w-40 I have in it right now meets those ratings. A friend at work said his brother works at a cycle shop and the shop owner said the additives in car/truck oil will make a wet clutch slip too much? I'll do more research before I spend the extra $$ when mymanual says "4 stroke oil" Should be ok?
	0

05-31-2007, 08:18 PM	#10
Ferrit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lawrenceburg, KY Posts: 178	What Liverchip and Buymore are referring to are some of the newer oils that contain "friction enhancers". These are usually a type of moly-d or other super slick compound. This is one of the reasons that you are seeing more motorcycle specific oils as they will definitely NOT have these friction modifiers in them whereas an automotive oil may or may not. Usually a quick read of the label will reveal if these compounds are included. Sometimes the oil is marketed as "high mileage" or "increased gas mileage" oils. Having grown up and retired from military aviation I am a firm believer in oil analysis. Our local Shaefer Oil rep does samples rather cheaply (doesn't hurt that I buy oil from him in 30 gal drums). Based on past experiences I'm planning on changing the full synthetic oil that I run every 2500 miles or so. If I ran dino oil I would change it every 1000 miles or so. I routinely run my car for 10-12k miles between oil changes.
	0

06-01-2007, 12:07 PM	#11
STcoldcrzy Join Date: May 2007 Location: New hampshire Posts: 37	i found the topic line funny because a car is a 4 stroke ...just a random thought ...ok joking aside i have been a mechanic for years and rebuilt many engines. it comes down to how often you change the oil more then the oil your using if your using cheap 88 cent oil change it more often... think about the engines rotating mass small engine vs larger car motor common sense tells you larger motor more rotating mass = more friction look at the bottom end of a car motor vs the bike car has main bearings that depend on oil pressure vs bike motor with true bearings the do not rely on pressure just the oil to be there
	0

06-01-2007, 02:31 PM	#12
buymore Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 28	I finally found an NGK plug for my Roketa DB05 at a local KTM dealer. I asked him about the oil and he said he would just use regular motor oil. He said his race bikes get the high dollar stuff, but mostly because it's FREE from the sponser! I have Castrol 15w-40 in it and I'm going to leave it for at least 1000 miles (of course to know when I get there, I'll have to do the KM conversion because my odometer is still KM) Speedo is in MPH and fairly accurate though! I took a 25 mile ride today, longest ride so far, and it was just a little rough on my hieney! Not too bad though. I feel comfortable to make the trip everyday to work now. I hated riding it to work when I wasn't really going to work, but I took the exact route to see how long and how it would be. Then I hurried up, and high tailed it home!!!! Before someone saw me and asked me to come to work! Still no loose bolts on it at 125 km's. Everything just fine.
	0

06-01-2007, 11:41 PM	#14
IronFist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 2,585	oops 8O
	0

06-03-2007, 02:57 PM	#15
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	I still think the main concern with motor oil used in a motorcycle is if it has friction modifiers(<BAD for wet clutch) in it, other than that motor oil is motor oil. I'm still talking about good old DINO oil not the fancy synthetic oil. Yes of course it has to be formulated for 4-stroke GASOLINE engines (not diesels) and be of the correct viscosity with NO friction modifiers.
	0