counter balanced vs unbalanced

[Dragon]

Hi,
I've narrowed down my option to:
(1) Hawk 250 (unbalanced overhead cam engine)
(2) Storm 250 (counter balanced push rod engine)

The Storm should be much smoother, right?

Will the vibration by the Hawk's unbalanced engine at 55 mph on pavement be too uncomfortable long distance?

[culcune]

The vibration on the Hawk will/should be vastly minimized with a smaller rear sprocket. Actually, both will benefit (I assume both come with the standard 56 tooth rear that Chinese manufacturers love to bless their bikes with) from a smaller rear sprocket and larger counter-sprocket.

[ripcuda]

I have a counter-bal in my Kinroad 200cc Enduro. It is a surprisingly buzz-free ride overall. And the extra mass turning over in the engine (counter balancer) gives the bike a noticeable amount of engine braking... almost scooter-like.

I like the looks of the Hawk better... but the features of the Storm more.

Cheers!

[jjn]

I believe the Hawk is an OHV engine with pushrods also.

On the subject of counterbalamcers, does anyone know what drives these counterbalancers? If they are gear driven, then hurrah! If they are chain driven, then no thank you. Since I can't find exploded views of the Bashan engines, I can't seem to find out. If anyone lives close to a Bashan dealer, and happens to stop in for parts, could you ask the parts person to look up the counterbalancer mechanism?

I just read a message from a gent with a Lifan that is counterbalanced, and he can't find a drive chain for that bike anywhere. I am of the opinion that the less chains inside a motorcycle engine, the better. With zero being best, and an overhead cam engine with a chain driven oil pump and counterbalancer being worst.

[Mudflap]

I'm the guy with the worn oil pump chain. The only counterbalanced engine I've opened up is my Lifan 200 pushrod engine which has a gear driven balance shaft and chain driven oil pump. I assume other manufacturers use a similar design. The non counterbalanced pushrod engines have a gear driven oil pump as does the original Honda CG125 that these engines are cloned from. My other 2 Chinese CG clone engines without the balance shaft have no chains at all.

[jjn]

Thanks, friend! Think I'll stay away from the counterbalanced engines. In 1984 I bought a new Harley-Davidson XLX1000 Sportster. They had rigid motor mounts. All steel, and no rubber. In 2004 they redesigned the frames using rubber mounts. Many riders don't like the "rigid frame" Sportsters. Mine didn't bother me due to vibrations. It just was not that bad. Later, I owned an '06 XL883. It was fine too, but, when they went to the rubber mounted frame, the Sportsters gained a bunch of weight.

How many miles on your Lifan engine before the chain became a problem? Or did you tear it down for another reason?

[Mudflap]

The oil pump chain started making noise at about 50,000 miles. Not a big deal really, it's not going to break any time soon, just annoying. Over that 50,000 miles the engine has been trouble free except for the chain noise and clutch basket getting loose on the splines.
If you're not going to keep the bike for 50,000 miles I'd still recommend the counterbalanced engine. The CG clone bikes I've ridden with the no balance shaft vibrate noticeably more with the exception of the 167FML that is in my Roketa made by Zongshen. The key there is probably the shorter stroke.

[jjn]

Thanks again for the info. Noise after 50,000..... I wouldn't complain about that! You are not far behind spudrider and his 200 Zong!

I guess, of the counter balanced engines, I like the Bashan Will 200, and 250, and the Bashan Storm 250. The 250 Will seems about impossible to find right now, but the 200 is available.

It's kind of a tough decision, and the only Chinabike I've ever seen in person was about 2009 or 2010 when I saw TMEC.

But, getting these sellers to get back with me with shipping quotes is about impossible. Only Wade, who sells the TMEC's has got me a price.

[culcune]

What is the final price on shipping your way as far as the TMEC goes (it's about time!! LOL)?

[jjn]

Shipping would be $468.71. That's to my house and a liftgate truck. Oh, and $1100 for the bike.

Culcune, which did you buy, the street TMEC with the 17" wheels, or the dual sport with the 21" front wheel? He's got a few of each. I shot him back an email asking if he is still going to sell these, and if he is still going to sell parts for them. Haven't heard back on that yet.

[mjstef]

Originally Posted by jjn

Shipping would be $468.71. That's to my house and a liftgate truck. Oh, and $1100 for the bike.

Culcune, which did you buy, the street TMEC with the 17" wheels, or the dual sport with the 21" front wheel? He's got a few of each. I shot him back an email asking if he is still going to sell these, and if he is still going to sell parts for them. Haven't heard back on that yet.

No reply from apscusa? They got back to me within a few hours............