tt250 miss the boat pricing nerfed?

[SeerAtlas]

Culcune, elegantly stated.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

both my hawks have zippo air box problems. and it appears to me from the photos that the same sharp bend in the air hose is at the carb end on the tt250, box end on hawk, probably a bit less intake turbulence inducing on the hawk. either way, its still a restriction/airflow disturbance...

Good for you. I'm glad you don't have the air box problem.

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

... I am curious tho Spud. did you seriously declare that ALL people considering a $1300.00 ish Hawk should unconditionably buy instead a roughly $2400 ish TT250 on the grounds of the use of a $1.25 sealant (which is apparenty used by both)?...

I never said any such thing. I would appreciate it very much if you would not misrepresent my position, and put words in my mouth. I also stated the issue is not about silicone, but the improper location of the air box in the frame.

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

...must be the campaign season your mfg fairness and impartiality seems to be in jeopardy here, I *think* unfairly to the hawk. As i've said, when I actually receive and run my production tt250, I'll be able to render an informed opinion on empirical info.

If you wished to insult me, you have succeeded. I have been on these forums since 2008, and I have been a moderator for about 6 years. I have never had anyone question my objectivity or impartiality before, and I certainly don't appreciate it now.

Since you didn't understand my position, I will state it one more time.

I strongly suggest anyone who is considering the purchase of a Hawk should make sure the bike he orders does not have this serious defect with the air box. If he isn't guaranteed the defect is not present, I think he is well advised to purchase a TT250, which is made by Zongshen, and backed by the excellent customer service from CSC.

[Wolftrax]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Thank you for verifying the problem, Mark.

I'm confident the sealant will hold out for you trip to South America. However, if I wanted a motorcycle to remain in my stable for years, I would not buy a bike with this defect. If this is a common problem for the Hawk motorcycles, I would definitely spend the extra money to get a CSC TT250, which is manufactured by Zongshen. I would be very surprised if this air box defect could pass the quality control at the Zongshen factory, and I would be even more surprised if CSC is willing to sell any TT250 bikes with this defect.

Agreed, the fix is cheap though and I wouldn't dissuade anyone from purchasing a Hawk solely on the crappy inlet. I removed the inlet tube and affixed a pod filter in its place for the time being.. Now I have to deal with the induction noise. Eventually I'm going to put the pod in the original airbox and replace the original paper filter with a foam pre-filter. If I didn' have so many parts(takeoffs) from other bikes laying around, I would have spent a couple hundred more on the Hawk getting her road worthy.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Wolftrax

Agreed, the fix is cheap though and I wouldn't dissuade anyone from purchasing a Hawk solely on the crappy inlet. I removed the inlet tube and affixed a pod filter in its place for the time being.. Now I have to deal with the induction noise. Eventually I'm going to put the pod in the original airbox and replace the original paper filter with a foam pre-filter. If I didn' have so many parts(takeoffs) from other bikes laying around, I would have spent a couple hundred more on the Hawk getting her road worthy.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase, and the installation of a pod air filter. Personally, I prefer the added stability and water tightness provided by a secure air box.

[lee47512]

I am confused what defect you guys are saying something about a gap or something in the airbox hose. what is the specific defect and do I have it? In my pics there is no gap and there is a flange or lip on both sides of the airbox.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by lee47512

I am confused what defect you guys are saying something about a gap or something in the airbox hose. what is the specific defect and do I have it? In my pics there is no gap and there is a flange or lip on both sides of the airbox.

Your bike is fine. I'm glad to know you don't have the defective air box. I sincerely hope this problem is rare. At this time I have only seen this problem reported by Wolftrax.

[lee47512]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Your bike is fine. I'm glad to know you don't have the defective air box. I sincerely hope this problem is rare. At this time I have only seen this problem reported by Wolftrax.

Ok thank you I was kinda confused I wanna see if I can get to your 70,000 km that you got with your old zong.

[2LZ]

LOL! Spud, after the "burial at sea" for your Zong, I can see how water tight may be a concern for you! ;-)
I'm going to check out the TT filter setup closely upon arrival. If it just looks like a bunch of weight and the usual China box, I'm going with another K&N pod. From the filter tutorial though, it looks almost as nice a box as Q. Seeing it live will tell.

Heck, once it's here, it's getting the major once-over on the lift as soon as it's uncrated. It may need a few beers and some hemming and hawing too.. Adding a new lady to the Harem. It's not like you can accept just ANYONE!

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

LOL! Spud, after the "burial at sea" for your Zong, I can see how water tight may be a concern for you! ;-)
I'm going to check out the TT filter setup closely upon arrival. If it just looks like a bunch of weight and the usual China box, I'm going with another K&N pod. From the filter tutorial though, it looks almost as nice a box as Q. Seeing it live will tell.

Heck, once it's here, it's getting the major once-over on the lift as soon as it's uncrated. It may need a few beers and some hemming and hawing too.. Adding a new lady to the Harem. It's not like you can accept just ANYONE!

Woe upon SCS upon its arrival. The rathe of LZ . burial @ sea,

I also had a short tube on my bashan, caught it and extended it with a 1 1/4 " pvc coupler and a hot air gun to extend the tube (tube is kinked somewhat but breaths fine) That is not rubber for sure , mostly like thick vinyl material. It needs a better solution however like the cone filter.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

...I'm going to check out the TT filter setup closely upon arrival. If it just looks like a bunch of weight and the usual China box, I'm going with another K&N pod. From the filter tutorial though, it looks almost as nice a box as Q. Seeing it live will tell...

Originally Posted by BlackBike

...I also had a short tube on my bashan, caught it and extended it with a 1 1/4 " pvc coupler and a hot air gun to extend the tube (tube is kinked somewhat but breaths fine) That is not rubber for sure , mostly like thick vinyl material. It needs a better solution however like the cone filter.

I guess if you guys are okay with a pod air filter, then the bad air box isn't a problem for you.

Personally, I don't like the weight of the pod filter hanging on the carburetor and intake manifold. Also, I have two bikes with CV (constant velocity) carburetors, and CV carburetors are designed to work properly only when fitted with an air box. I also like to vent the crankcase gases into a sealed air box, rather than have the crankcase vent hose exposed to suck water and dirt into the crankcase. Also, even in the rain, the air filter is better protected inside an air box. Exposure to moisture only gets worse when crossing streams, et cetera, with a pod air filter.

Finally, I am poorly impressed with an improperly designed frame which won't connect the air box securely to the carburetor. This is the type of manufacture which generates ridicule for Chinese motorcycles on Thumpertalk, ADVrider, and other forums. I understand there is a wide variety of design control and quality control from different Chinese manufacturers. However, I own two Zongshen motorcycles, and I would never expect to see this kind of poor design from Zongshen. I also don't think you would see this design problem occur with either a Qingqi (QLink) or Lifan motorcycle.

I'm hoping this particular problem is rare, and was resolved with later models of the Hawk motorcycle. Personally, I would be very disappointed if I received a motorcycle with this type of defective air box.

[SpudRider]

Now I see a report of a damaged O-ring on the intake manifold of a Hawk bike.

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....2&postcount=59



I suggest every Hawk owner should examine the carburetor intake manifold for this problem. If the O-ring is not intact, you will draw dust into the cylinder, which will eventually damage the intake valve and its valve seat.

In addition, the same fellow indicated both valves were tight in one of his Hawk motorcycles, with no clearance whatsoever.

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....8&postcount=62

Tight valves will quickly become burnt valves, resulting in engine damage.

These kind of problems are the result of poor quality control at the factory, which can cause a lot of grief for inexperienced mechanics who don't thoroughly examine a new motorcycle.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

LOL! Spud, after the "burial at sea" for your Zong, I can see how water tight may be a concern for you! ;-)
I'm going to check out the TT filter setup closely upon arrival. If it just looks like a bunch of weight and the usual China box, I'm going with another K&N pod. From the filter tutorial though, it looks almost as nice a box as Q. Seeing it live will tell.

Heck, once it's here, it's getting the major once-over on the lift as soon as it's uncrated. It may need a few beers and some hemming and hawing too.. Adding a new lady to the Harem. It's not like you can accept just ANYONE!

I think you miss my point, 2LZ. I don't think the Zongshen TT250 is going to have any of the problems I mentioned. Zongshen has been dedicated to a high level of quality control for many years, and is constantly seeking to improve even further. In addition, CSC is going to assemble and inspect the bikes. They will also check the valve lash, and test ride the motorcycles before delivery. I don't think CSC will be shipping any bikes with defective parts. However, if a defect somehow does slip through, I know CSC will honor the warranty, and fix the problem.

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Good for you. I'm glad you don't have the air box problem.

1. ok Spud, i'll bite how many hawks have been sold? maybe 500 or so{apparently been out couple of years} now how many have the tube sealed outside the box instead of in the grooves? well I dunno. at least one we know of. How many of those have an improperly located airbox? again, I dunno. I didn't see where wolf claimed the airbox location was faulty, just the tube mis installed. now was the bike delivered in an unusable condition? dunno. Wolf, was it leaking air?. I think Spud opined that the sealant was probably sufficient,

OK part two: How many TT250's have been delivered? 3 csc demo's?, How many have an intake hose issue? well to my eyes at least one per the pictures. that kink in the hose right at the intake is likely to cause some turbulence in the incoming air flow and possibly some intake restriction. any physicists out there feel free to opine. My engineering/physics classes at UCLA were some time ago (tho post Newton



I never said any such thing. I would appreciate it very much if you would not misrepresent my position, and put words in my mouth. I also stated the issue is not about silicone, but the improper location of the air box in the frame.

My point was that the tube issue had been resolved, no doubt by at least one installer( was he new? did he not understand that the tube was supposed to fit in the airbox hole? Did his girlfriend go out on him the night before? again , I dunno but judging from my own bikes, those of some others on this board, and the lack of public outcry over the issue, I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that Wolf's tube setup is neither uniform or even likely amongst the hundred of Hawks out there.
soooooo imho opinion its a bit much to damn a mfg's product in favor of a far more expensive one( you know at the guys offering the package deal on hawks you could get two w just a few more bucks than a single TT250) over this incident.

If you wished to insult me, you have succeeded. I have been on these forums since 2008, and I have been a moderator for about 6 years. I have never had anyone question my objectivity or impartiality before, and I certainly don't appreciate it now.

Sorry you took offense, was none intended, but if that's your choice....
but while we r on the subject, I don't remember when I first joined the board, but it was some years ago, in fact before the time i and Phil ordered his (for me thus mine) First Zong , a sierra which i still have (same model as you) and which continues to run perfectly (tho damned that thing is HEAVY). AS to your objectivity or impartiality, well i have reached my conclusions, all are free to reach theirs.:}Your Zong related posts abound on this board amongst others.


Since you didn't understand my position, I will state it one more time.

I strongly suggest anyone who is considering the purchase of a Hawk should make sure the bike he orders does not have this serious defect with the air box. If he isn't guaranteed the defect is not present, I think he is well advised to purchase a TT250, which is made by Zongshen, and backed by the excellent customer service from CSC.

Not to exclude the excellent service and communication w RPS that I Personally experienced (replacement of a shipping damaged part post haste and free gratis.) I even spoke at some length w the guy who owns the company bout an unrelated industry issue.
soooo.....

Finally, Hey WolF, before I forget, there is a guy on I think Ali express who sells a really nice reusable pod filter that comes w a ducted metal shroud to protect the filter from flying debris as well as to kill the intake howl (directs it downward. Very cheap and combined w the aluminum intake manifold, one pretty much solves the whole intake strength, efficiency, noise issue. All for less than 30 bucks total. Reusable really is a godsend when out running thru the boonies , and thanks again for the url on that valve cover /oil radiator setup. damn that think is nice.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

...imho opinion its a bit much to damn a mfg's product in favor of a far more expensive one( you know at the guys offering the package deal on hawks you could get two w just a few more bucks than a single TT250) over this incident...

I didn't “damn a manufacturer's product.” I issued a warning regarding a potential problem for other prospective buyers.

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

...Sorry you took offense, was none intended...

Thanks for the clarification. I accept your apology.

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

Not to exclude the excellent service and communication w RPS that I Personally experienced (replacement of a shipping damaged part post haste and free gratis.) I even spoke at some length w the guy who owns the company bout an unrelated industry issue.
soooo...

I'm glad you enjoy your bike, and did not receive a defective air box. I am also glad you received excellent customer service from RPS. I certainly hope the defective air box reported by Wolftrax is a an isolated instance, and does not indicate potential problems for other prospective buyers.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I think you miss my point, 2LZ. I don't think the Zongshen TT250 is going to have any of the problems I mentioned. Zongshen has been dedicated to a high level of quality control for many years, and is constantly seeking to improve even further. In addition, CSC is going to assemble and inspect the bikes. They will also check the valve lash, and test ride the motorcycles before delivery. I don't think CSC will be shipping any bikes with defective parts. However, if a defect somehow does slip through, I know CSC will honor the warranty, and fix the problem.

That's ok Spud, I was just having a little fun. I don't mind the pods on the Hondoids but after seeing the air filter tutorial, it seems a nice setup. I also have a CV carb on Q and yep, it needs to be supported fore and aft so a pod wouldn't do the trick. Besides, the air box is a nice unit.
That said, I was going over some old threads last week in search of info and ran across one from "trevort" and he made a support for a pod filter for his Q XF200 CV carb that he was racing.