My 2007 Kinroad XT200GY Runmaster - Page 3

ripcuda · 05-08-2015, 12:37 AM

Another round of tuning tonight. First, I ensured no air leaks between the carb and engine... using the starting fluid trick. No leaks detected.

Next I unbolted the carb and rotated it so I could pop the bowl off (after I drained it). I checked the mixture screw... cause it's darn hard to reach with the carb in place... and it was just past 2 turns out... and still lean. I set it back to 1.5 turns out.

Next I pulled the pilot jet. I thought it was a #38... but am not so sure. The stamped # on the jet looks like a 33, but I assumed the second digit was a bad stamp and the 3 was really an 8. Anyway... I checked it using my #'ed drill bits to gauge it's size. It was definitely smaller than .38mm. Maybe it is a #33?? So I easily got the #80 bit through by hand then drilled it up to a #79 (.0145"/.368mm). I stopped there since I didn't want to over-do it. Back together it all went and I fired it up. It definitely idled better. Not so much popping on decel. I played with mixture screw and just past 2 turns out I hit a sweet spot. The engine settled to a nice idle (after minor idle screw adjustment), reved well, no snaps or poping, and the idle returned right back to where it was set without hanging. Very good.

I pumped up the tires and grabbed my helmet... while there was still daylight (my headlight is still off)... and off I went. Happy to say all the gears work, and the clutch too. Speedo feels like it's reading a tad high... pretty common. At just the right speed/rpm... my gas tank starts to buzz. And i don't have any plastics on the bike... just the bare tank. It stopped if I squeezed it between my legs. Okay... at least I found the source of the buzz. Then at a faster speed I could feel the front wheel. I fear it may be out-of-round. I'm getting a weird vibe. Perhaps just the tire and not the rim. Guess I need to check that closer.

Still some more tuning to do after I put a few more miles on it to get a good plug read. I probably should up-size the pilot one more (a true .38mm sounds like it would be perfect)... since I'm past 2 turns out on the mixture screw. But first, I think I'll try lifting the carb needle up a notch to increase midrange fueling. Felt a little sluggish there... not quite eager to rev. First rule of carb tuning... one change at a time!

Cheers!

Weldangrind · 05-08-2015, 11:16 AM

Indeed, one change at a time; I like how you think.

You're making terrific progress! I anticipate that the sweet spot will be between 38 and 40, but maybe as high as 42 on the slow jet. If the decal popping goes away and the pilot mixture screw is turned out less than two turns, you've got a winner.

You might be able to solve the tank buzz with a rubber plumbing washer under the rear mounting bolt.

Adjuster · 05-08-2015, 11:53 AM

I'm using garden hose washers on my bike to stop some vibrations. A bag of them is super cheap at Walmart or just about anywhere.

/

Weldangrind · 05-08-2015, 12:04 PM

Those are very effective as well, but it depends on the bolt size. The 8mm diameter bolts need a washer with a smaller hole.

ripcuda · 05-09-2015, 01:32 AM

In another thread I commented on having to get used to the unusual gear shift pattern on this bike. It's 5 gears straight down... neutral at the top. And how I need a toe-n-heel shifter (like on my old Trail 90).

HumanBeing posted that the shift pattern can be changed on my engine. That is good info to know. Reposting here for reference to my bike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanbeing

At least it isn't that "suicidal" rotary...
---
Genuine :http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13371757816 | Generic :http://item.taobao.com/item?id=39464525801
===
To "mainsteram" needs tool open the case ... & these http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13346435666 | http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10133081888 btw there's also another version (14mm / not 20mm). ENSURE which is b4 buying parts , otherwise ...
http://www.motorfans.com.cn/bbs/view...14319&page=2--

Cheers!

ripcuda · 05-09-2015, 01:44 AM

Put a few more miles on my bike tonight. More top speed testing. The engine is running well. I raised the slide needle up to its highest position (lowest clip slot). This extra mid-range fueling is noticeable in how much more quickly the engine is willing to rev up. Did another plug read and still on the just a tad too lean side. Think my next step will be to rework my pilot jet... which should allow me to bring my mixture screw under 2 turns out (slightly over 2 out right now). I think that will do the trick.

The bike runs very well overall. I think my front tire vibe is the tire. The brake rotor is dead true... which is good. Still need to verify the rim is true. I aired them up more tonight. Previously they felt hard but only had 15-20 psi in them. Now they're closer to 30psi. The vibe was much less noticeable tonight. Need to see what the recommended pressures are and set them to that.

I took my GPS out to see my speeds vs speedo. My speedo is pretty much 10mph low across the board. Good to know. I then reset my GPS max recorded speed and gave her the spurs. Best I could do on my road was 59mph max. I think I could have gotten a few more mph with more road... but not much. With first gear being too short... I think I'm going to look at getting a 17T counter sprocket to go along with my 46T rear.

Cheers!

culcune · 05-09-2015, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripcuda

In another thread I commented on having to get used to the unusual gear shift pattern on this bike. It's 5 gears straight down... neutral at the top. And how I need a toe-n-heel shifter (like on my old Trail 90).

HumanBeing posted that the shift pattern can be changed on my engine. That is good info to know. Reposting here for reference to my bike.

Cheers!

I forgot the one quark (ok, two quarks with the unusually small fuel tank) with the Kinroad enduros--the rotary transmission (or whatever it is called).

Weldangrind · 05-09-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripcuda

I think I'm going to look at getting a 17T counter sprocket to go along with my 46T rear.

I bet you'll be happy with that combo. Thanks for all of your well thought out updates.

ripcuda · 05-10-2015, 12:23 PM

Completed another round of carb tweaks. I pulled the jets again for another measure. The main jet I'm using came with my rebuild kit and is a #110. I don't have #'d drill bits above #61 so can't get an accurate "measure"... but it seems to be a 1.10mm to me. My stock #102 jet fits my #61 bit (.099mm) and I feel a #60 (1.016mm) would be pretty exact. So that jet is as advertised (#102). So I suspect my #110 is also as advertised.

I'm using the pilot jet from my kit... labeled #33 or #38 (??)... I'm not positive. Either way... it was re-drilled to a #79 (.368mm) at last running... and still seems a little lean. So this time I opened it up to a #78 (.406).

The mixture screw was past 2 turns out last time. I reset it to 1.5 out for this time. I tweaked the screw after starting and found 3/4-to-1 turn out to be a good spot.

The bike is running very well. No more popping on decel. Seems to be reving freely... no noticeable stumbles or hesitations. The revs don't hang when letting off the throttle... it drops right back to idle. All very good. I took the bike on it's first mission... short 13 miler to the hardware store and back. Runs great. Starts easy and quick (very nice).

My plug read after the ride still looks on the lean side... not bad ashen white... but not quite chocolate perfection either. Think I go with it for a while and play with my mixture screw.

Hope these PZ30 carb tuning notes helps others.

Cheers!

ripcuda · 05-10-2015, 12:40 PM

So put some more miles on my Runmaster and have noticed some more things about it.

I think the odometer is in Kilometers. I main larger #'ed ring on the speedo is Km... so makes sense the odo is too. Not only is the speedo 10mph high across the board... but racking up Km's is way faster than miles! While not accurate at all... I hope it stays consistent so I can use it for keeping track of my range.

My front rim is not true. The hub and brake rotor are true... but the out rim has an ever-so-slight wobble to it. Darn. I checked all the spokes and they are all equally tight. It's doesn't seem to be an out-of-round issue... so much as a sideways bend issue (does that make sense?). The wheel doesn't hop... but you can see the wheel wave each rotation as you what it spin. It's rideable... so will probably go with it for now and watch it.

I have a slight gear whine from the front of my engine. I'm pretty positive it's the counterbalance. It's engine speed related, not bike speed related. Makes sense it would be gear driven off the crank. Guess I'll just imagine it's a supercharger (not quite that loud) and enjoy it for what it does for me. Haha.

Lastly, the down-click upshifting isn't so bad. I recall sport bike riders changing their shifter to get "GP race shifting" patterns. So I guess my bike is already GP race shifting! Haha. Most annoying is neutral at the very top. As I toe-up to downshift... if I'm not counting gears I end up in neutral. At a stop sign or whatnot... that's annoying. So I pop into N then tap back into 1st... guess that's the new routine.

Oh... and my seat is hard as a rock! It has to be wood under the seat cover instead of foam. But isn't a firmer seat what all the IronButt riders want? I got it!

Cheers!

Weldangrind · 05-10-2015, 12:41 PM

I look forward to your updates.

I agree with your assessment of the jet sizes. I wish I had your drill index; mine doesn't go any smaller than #60. What you've identified is that the jet number is supposed to correspond with the metric size: 110 equals 1.1mm, etc.

The difference with a Mikuni is that they use a much smaller slow jet; a slow jet for a similar set up to what you have would be about #25. I suspect that the Keihin has an air bleed that the Mikuni lacks, which means more fuel is required in a Keihin at idle. I should compare two of them and see what I can learn.

I have a couple of spare Keihin main jets with emulsion tubes (#94 and what I think is #109), plus I could probably find a few extra slow jets. Would those be a benefit to you?

Weldangrind · 05-10-2015, 12:45 PM

I recommend that you search Youtube for rim truing tutorials. You can work that lateral wobble out.

Most counterbalacers are adjustable, and they're often driven off of a chain. I've never seen a China counterbalancer up close, so I'm not sure how to deal with yours. Perhaps Humanbeing has some tips.

I think the GP shifting conversion was simply the result of flipping the shifter over to work with a rearset, but I'm not sure.

Mudflap · 05-10-2015, 01:32 PM

The balance shaft in the Lifan is gear driven with straight cut gears so it does make a little noise. Some of the clones use helical cut gears which are a bit quieter. Also the balance shaft engines I've seen use a chain drive oil pump where the standard engines drive it with a gear, usually plastic.

jct842 · 05-10-2015, 03:12 PM

The drill index can be added to easily. "Orifice drills." I ended up with several different sets that are different in the sizes supplied in each set. Most run $10 or less on ebay. Welding shops carry them too. I over drilled the main on a chinese scooter so I just soldered it shut and redrilled it smaller. It was running great after 5000 miles when the scooter was wrecked.

Weldangrind · 05-11-2015, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jct842

The drill index can be added to easily. "Orifice drills." I ended up with several different sets that are different in the sizes supplied in each set. Most run $10 or less on ebay. Welding shops carry them too. I over drilled the main on a chinese scooter so I just soldered it shut and redrilled it smaller. It was running great after 5000 miles when the scooter was wrecked.

Thanks for the tip!

05-08-2015, 12:37 AM	#31
ripcuda Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 253	Another round of tuning tonight. First, I ensured no air leaks between the carb and engine... using the starting fluid trick. No leaks detected. Next I unbolted the carb and rotated it so I could pop the bowl off (after I drained it). I checked the mixture screw... cause it's darn hard to reach with the carb in place... and it was just past 2 turns out... and still lean. I set it back to 1.5 turns out. Next I pulled the pilot jet. I thought it was a #38... but am not so sure. The stamped # on the jet looks like a 33, but I assumed the second digit was a bad stamp and the 3 was really an 8. Anyway... I checked it using my #'ed drill bits to gauge it's size. It was definitely smaller than .38mm. Maybe it is a #33?? So I easily got the #80 bit through by hand then drilled it up to a #79 (.0145"/.368mm). I stopped there since I didn't want to over-do it. Back together it all went and I fired it up. It definitely idled better. Not so much popping on decel. I played with mixture screw and just past 2 turns out I hit a sweet spot. The engine settled to a nice idle (after minor idle screw adjustment), reved well, no snaps or poping, and the idle returned right back to where it was set without hanging. Very good. I pumped up the tires and grabbed my helmet... while there was still daylight (my headlight is still off)... and off I went. Happy to say all the gears work, and the clutch too. Speedo feels like it's reading a tad high... pretty common. At just the right speed/rpm... my gas tank starts to buzz. And i don't have any plastics on the bike... just the bare tank. It stopped if I squeezed it between my legs. Okay... at least I found the source of the buzz. Then at a faster speed I could feel the front wheel. I fear it may be out-of-round. I'm getting a weird vibe. Perhaps just the tire and not the rim. Guess I need to check that closer. Still some more tuning to do after I put a few more miles on it to get a good plug read. I probably should up-size the pilot one more (a true .38mm sounds like it would be perfect)... since I'm past 2 turns out on the mixture screw. But first, I think I'll try lifting the carb needle up a notch to increase midrange fueling. Felt a little sluggish there... not quite eager to rev. First rule of carb tuning... one change at a time! Cheers! __________________ '20 TaoTao Hellcat 125 "grommet" '04 Yamaha TTR-125LE '00 Yamaha TTR-90 '07 Kinroad XT200GY Runmaster (sold) '07 KMD GY6 150cc ATV (sold) '07 Kangchao 250cc ATV Monster (sold) Baja Moto DB-30 "Doodlebugs"(x3) (sold) '06 Hi-Bird 200 parts bike (sold)
	0

05-08-2015, 11:16 AM	#32
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Indeed, one change at a time; I like how you think. You're making terrific progress! I anticipate that the sweet spot will be between 38 and 40, but maybe as high as 42 on the slow jet. If the decal popping goes away and the pilot mixture screw is turned out less than two turns, you've got a winner. You might be able to solve the tank buzz with a rubber plumbing washer under the rear mounting bolt. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-08-2015, 12:04 PM	#34
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Those are very effective as well, but it depends on the bolt size. The 8mm diameter bolts need a washer with a smaller hole. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-09-2015, 01:44 AM	#36
ripcuda Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 253	Put a few more miles on my bike tonight. More top speed testing. The engine is running well. I raised the slide needle up to its highest position (lowest clip slot). This extra mid-range fueling is noticeable in how much more quickly the engine is willing to rev up. Did another plug read and still on the just a tad too lean side. Think my next step will be to rework my pilot jet... which should allow me to bring my mixture screw under 2 turns out (slightly over 2 out right now). I think that will do the trick. The bike runs very well overall. I think my front tire vibe is the tire. The brake rotor is dead true... which is good. Still need to verify the rim is true. I aired them up more tonight. Previously they felt hard but only had 15-20 psi in them. Now they're closer to 30psi. The vibe was much less noticeable tonight. Need to see what the recommended pressures are and set them to that. I took my GPS out to see my speeds vs speedo. My speedo is pretty much 10mph low across the board. Good to know. I then reset my GPS max recorded speed and gave her the spurs. Best I could do on my road was 59mph max. I think I could have gotten a few more mph with more road... but not much. With first gear being too short... I think I'm going to look at getting a 17T counter sprocket to go along with my 46T rear. Cheers! __________________ '20 TaoTao Hellcat 125 "grommet" '04 Yamaha TTR-125LE '00 Yamaha TTR-90 '07 Kinroad XT200GY Runmaster (sold) '07 KMD GY6 150cc ATV (sold) '07 Kangchao 250cc ATV Monster (sold) Baja Moto DB-30 "Doodlebugs"(x3) (sold) '06 Hi-Bird 200 parts bike (sold)
	0

05-10-2015, 12:23 PM	#39
ripcuda Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 253	Completed another round of carb tweaks. I pulled the jets again for another measure. The main jet I'm using came with my rebuild kit and is a #110. I don't have #'d drill bits above #61 so can't get an accurate "measure"... but it seems to be a 1.10mm to me. My stock #102 jet fits my #61 bit (.099mm) and I feel a #60 (1.016mm) would be pretty exact. So that jet is as advertised (#102). So I suspect my #110 is also as advertised. I'm using the pilot jet from my kit... labeled #33 or #38 (??)... I'm not positive. Either way... it was re-drilled to a #79 (.368mm) at last running... and still seems a little lean. So this time I opened it up to a #78 (.406). The mixture screw was past 2 turns out last time. I reset it to 1.5 out for this time. I tweaked the screw after starting and found 3/4-to-1 turn out to be a good spot. The bike is running very well. No more popping on decel. Seems to be reving freely... no noticeable stumbles or hesitations. The revs don't hang when letting off the throttle... it drops right back to idle. All very good. I took the bike on it's first mission... short 13 miler to the hardware store and back. Runs great. Starts easy and quick (very nice). My plug read after the ride still looks on the lean side... not bad ashen white... but not quite chocolate perfection either. Think I go with it for a while and play with my mixture screw. Hope these PZ30 carb tuning notes helps others. Cheers! __________________ '20 TaoTao Hellcat 125 "grommet" '04 Yamaha TTR-125LE '00 Yamaha TTR-90 '07 Kinroad XT200GY Runmaster (sold) '07 KMD GY6 150cc ATV (sold) '07 Kangchao 250cc ATV Monster (sold) Baja Moto DB-30 "Doodlebugs"(x3) (sold) '06 Hi-Bird 200 parts bike (sold)
	0

05-08-2015, 11:53 AM	#33
Adjuster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Deerfield Beach FL Posts: 1,410	I'm using garden hose washers on my bike to stop some vibrations. A bag of them is super cheap at Walmart or just about anywhere. /
	0

05-10-2015, 12:40 PM	#40
ripcuda Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 253	So put some more miles on my Runmaster and have noticed some more things about it. I think the odometer is in Kilometers. I main larger #'ed ring on the speedo is Km... so makes sense the odo is too. Not only is the speedo 10mph high across the board... but racking up Km's is way faster than miles! While not accurate at all... I hope it stays consistent so I can use it for keeping track of my range. My front rim is not true. The hub and brake rotor are true... but the out rim has an ever-so-slight wobble to it. Darn. I checked all the spokes and they are all equally tight. It's doesn't seem to be an out-of-round issue... so much as a sideways bend issue (does that make sense?). The wheel doesn't hop... but you can see the wheel wave each rotation as you what it spin. It's rideable... so will probably go with it for now and watch it. I have a slight gear whine from the front of my engine. I'm pretty positive it's the counterbalance. It's engine speed related, not bike speed related. Makes sense it would be gear driven off the crank. Guess I'll just imagine it's a supercharger (not quite that loud) and enjoy it for what it does for me. Haha. Lastly, the down-click upshifting isn't so bad. I recall sport bike riders changing their shifter to get "GP race shifting" patterns. So I guess my bike is already GP race shifting! Haha. Most annoying is neutral at the very top. As I toe-up to downshift... if I'm not counting gears I end up in neutral. At a stop sign or whatnot... that's annoying. So I pop into N then tap back into 1st... guess that's the new routine. Oh... and my seat is hard as a rock! It has to be wood under the seat cover instead of foam. But isn't a firmer seat what all the IronButt riders want? I got it! Cheers! __________________ '20 TaoTao Hellcat 125 "grommet" '04 Yamaha TTR-125LE '00 Yamaha TTR-90 '07 Kinroad XT200GY Runmaster (sold) '07 KMD GY6 150cc ATV (sold) '07 Kangchao 250cc ATV Monster (sold) Baja Moto DB-30 "Doodlebugs"(x3) (sold) '06 Hi-Bird 200 parts bike (sold)
	0

05-10-2015, 12:41 PM	#41
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I look forward to your updates. I agree with your assessment of the jet sizes. I wish I had your drill index; mine doesn't go any smaller than #60. What you've identified is that the jet number is supposed to correspond with the metric size: 110 equals 1.1mm, etc. The difference with a Mikuni is that they use a much smaller slow jet; a slow jet for a similar set up to what you have would be about #25. I suspect that the Keihin has an air bleed that the Mikuni lacks, which means more fuel is required in a Keihin at idle. I should compare two of them and see what I can learn. I have a couple of spare Keihin main jets with emulsion tubes (#94 and what I think is #109), plus I could probably find a few extra slow jets. Would those be a benefit to you? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-10-2015, 12:45 PM	#42
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I recommend that you search Youtube for rim truing tutorials. You can work that lateral wobble out. Most counterbalacers are adjustable, and they're often driven off of a chain. I've never seen a China counterbalancer up close, so I'm not sure how to deal with yours. Perhaps Humanbeing has some tips. I think the GP shifting conversion was simply the result of flipping the shifter over to work with a rearset, but I'm not sure. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-10-2015, 01:32 PM	#43
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,929	The balance shaft in the Lifan is gear driven with straight cut gears so it does make a little noise. Some of the clones use helical cut gears which are a bit quieter. Also the balance shaft engines I've seen use a chain drive oil pump where the standard engines drive it with a gear, usually plastic.
	0

05-10-2015, 03:12 PM	#44
jct842 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: arkansas Posts: 297	The drill index can be added to easily. "Orifice drills." I ended up with several different sets that are different in the sizes supplied in each set. Most run $10 or less on ebay. Welding shops carry them too. I over drilled the main on a chinese scooter so I just soldered it shut and redrilled it smaller. It was running great after 5000 miles when the scooter was wrecked.
	0