2023 Templar X rear wheel issue

[Old-dude]

Hi all, Got the bike on valentines day. First ride on Friday and immediately noticed a whining noise coming from the rear wheel. I have opened a tech case with powersportsmax. here is my description of issue to them:
Rear wheel has a whining noise when riding.

To troubleshoot:
1. first checked chain tension and rear sprocket chain guide. Both checked ok.
2. With chain removed could feel "drag" on wheel when rotating.
a) removed brake caliper and "drag could still be felt when spinning rear wheel
b) removed rear wheel (rear wheel was installed on bike from factory).
1. Rear wheel axle nut was very tight not sure what torque was but definitely more than 65 foot pounds
2. Upon inspection, metal slivers were found in coming of bearings,Either the bearings were seated too tight or the rear axle was tightened too tight. in addition the wheel hub sleeve (between the bearings) is misaligned and cannot be moved as the bearings are pushed too tightly against the hub sleeve. when reinstalling the axle will hit against the bearing as the sleeve is misaligned. I can tap the axle through with a rubber mallet to force it through. and believe that this is the source of the noise.

I have a couple of pics, just need to figure out how to post.

[Old-dude]

Pic of bearing

[Thumper]

The spacer may float until you insert the axel through? The axel must align it up. The problem sounds like the axel nut was gorilla tightened. It is NOT supposed to be tightened much. It has a nylon friction ring ("locking"). That friction is enough to prevent it from backing off.

A few people have had difficulty with the rear axel. At least part of it could be just overtightening. I am sorry that you got preassembly. The people they hire for that are monkeys. And they don't use loctite or carefully route wires and cables for minimum flex and getting things tucked away against the frame.

Assembly is critical on every bike, and for inexpensive Chinese dirt bikes, it is really a good idea to go through it all carefully.

I don't know what to say about the rear axel. Dealerships won't look at it. Did you try reassembling it yourself, without overtightening?

[Fast_Freddy]

FWIW, while browsing the forum I've seen several reports of premature rear wheel bearing failures. The rear axle nut should be torqued to 65 ft lbs with loctite appled.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

FWIW, while browsing the forum I've seen several reports of premature rear wheel bearing failures. The rear axle nut should be torqued to 65 ft lbs with loctite appled.

I don't think I go that high on torque. It has never come off, or even loosened, and the pushbacks (10mm bolts) are locked in place with the 12mm nuts, which also frequently get overtightened!

I'm just sayin' sometimes "less is more".

I think it should be a crown bolt with a cotter key. The nylon ring gets abused over time. I may convert to a crown bolt (drill holes in the shaft for cotter and buy a crown bolt. That way, I can keep the rear bearings free from the side stress of getting pushed off center (wrt the hub insert positions). That is what makes the bearings fail.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I don't think I go that high on torque. It has never come off, or even loosened, and the pushbacks (10mm bolts) are locked in place with the 12mm nuts, which also frequently get overtightened!

I'm just sayin' sometimes "less is more".

I think it should be a crown bolt with a cotter key. The nylon ring gets abused over time. I may convert to a crown bolt (drill holes in the shaft for cotter and buy a crown bolt. That way, I can keep the rear bearings free from the side stress of getting pushed off center (wrt the hub insert positions). That is what makes the bearings fail.

I didn't think this would be a problem with sealed bearing assemblies? I got the torque value from Texas Pete's chart in the Templar Resource thread. It sounds reasonable. GM wants my 14mm wheel nuts torqued to 145 ft lbs.

[tknj99]

After having the rear wheel fall off while riding (no fun) my former Titan DLX, I've chosen to be safe rather rhan sorry by drilling the axle ends and adding cotter pins to both bikes.. maybe not needed but was east to do and worth it to me

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I didn't think this would be a problem with sealed bearing assemblies? I got the torque value from Texas Pete's chart in the Templar Resource thread. It sounds reasonable. GM wants my 14mm wheel nuts torqued to 145 ft lbs.

65 ft lbs + Loctite seems very reasonable for an axle nut. As far as car lug nuts, I have torqued mine to 80 ft lbs all my life, on many different cars, and never had one back off. No Loctite either.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by TominMO

65 ft lbs + Loctite seems very reasonable for an axle nut. As far as car lug nuts, I have torqued mine to 80 ft lbs all my life, on many different cars, and never had one back off. No Loctite either.

80 ft lbs is on the low side but apparently adequate. If in doubt I've always used 100 ft lbs. I did have a wheel come off once but it happened after a PA safety inspection. Now I check them myself whenever a "not my car" mechanic works on any of my vehicles.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

80 ft lbs is on the low side but apparently adequate. If in doubt I've always used 100 ft lbs. I did have a wheel come off once but it happened after a PA safety inspection. Now I check them myself whenever a "not my car" mechanic works on any of my vehicles.

Agreed. 80 is adequate, 90 - 100 perhaps for a little extra safety margin. But 140 is unnecessary. And yeah, check lug nuts after a mechanic has touched your wheels.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by tknj99

After having the rear wheel fall off while riding (no fun) my former Titan DLX, I've chosen to be safe rather rhan sorry by drilling the axle ends and adding cotter pins to both bikes.. maybe not needed but was east to do and worth it to me

That's actually a great idea. Cotter pins are dirt cheap compared to ER visits.

[buzz]

Yep cotter pins the way to go!

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I think it should be a crown bolt with a cotter key. The nylon ring gets abused over time. I may convert to a crown bolt (drill holes in the shaft for cotter and buy a crown bolt. That way, I can keep the rear bearings free from the side stress of getting pushed off center (wrt the hub insert positions). That is what makes the bearings fail.

Yes. Cotter key. I agree with you

I think the center spacer, the side spacers and alignment of the disk rotor are not that good on these bikes. I have heard of people adding extra spacers to get the brake to stop rubbing.

So if you tighten the axel to normal specification, the two wheel bearings are probably getting tweaked sideways. This causes bearing failure.

This is the reason I won't tighten my axel nut that much. Mine has never loosened at all, so I am OK with it, but would prefer to have a crown bolt and cotter pin.

[Seamonkey]

Love this post and breakdown of your problem solving. Can you help me out? I bought the templar 250 and I'm trying to upgrade/replace the axles and their nuts and bearings since I'm getting some light sounds too. Can you help me out and let me know if that was a 10mm axle for just the rear or front too? and did you end up finding the right bearings?

[sshoress]

Real quick, templar x, what's the size of the rear axel nut? I do believe I will go the crown & cotter route.