Just wondering....engine swap?

olds_cool63 · 05-11-2022, 11:58 PM

Sooooo...the Lifan X-pect 200 is still on my radar. At some point, I'm gonna want a bit more power. Not really interested in all the work in trying to get more power out of a 163FML. Would there be a slightly larger engine, TRUE 250 (not 223) - 350, that can be a direct or easy drop in? I don't mind picking up an older, used engine and rebuilding it. Some fabbing's ok. If I get this bike, I may actually want to commute on it every now and then. Would mostly be for riding around town, or so. But, would be nice to have more torque and hp's for the highway. If it can be done, I would look at a rear disk conversion...story for another day.

So, any ideas?

XLsior · 05-12-2022, 12:40 AM

Not even the CG250 167fmm is a true 250cc as it only taps the 229cc mark.

There is/are CG300 aircooled cylinder heads which I have seen in South American YT clips being fitted to a CG200 case modified to fit.

I preemptively purchased the CG300 cylinder/piston kit (70mm bore) from aliexpress to go onto my CG250 case with a jug skirt machine down...But this won't be an option on a CG200case.

from a stock 63mm piston you might be able to get a 65.5mm kit to fit without major fuss...

So the slightly larger engine as a whole would be a CG250.

Megadan · 05-12-2022, 04:08 AM

I mean, depending on how far you want to take it... An XR250 engine is a good somewhat drop in, some fab option. The downside to XR engines is parts availability is limited, and kickstart only.

We had a gentleman here at one time swap an XR500 engine into a Hawk. Obviously it took a bit more than a little fab work.
http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=21177

TominMO · 05-12-2022, 07:38 AM

From what you said in post 1, why bother to go to all this trouble and expense? Easier to just get a 250. The new 249cc Lifan KPX is a completely different bike; basically everything on the bike is upgraded from the X-pect.

Okierider · 05-12-2022, 07:49 AM

The 172fmm motor may be an option? 249cc, and they seem to be pretty readily available on eBay for $600 and (supposedly) make 20 horse. Purportedly with a thinner head gasket, 4* key and better intake/exhaust they make nearly 30.
Or you could get a Templar 250 with said engine and go from there for 2k.

Badluck · 05-12-2022, 10:47 AM

Say you manage to swap the engine.

Are you going to keep the fuel injection? Can you develop a new fuel map?

If you go over to carbureted, would you need to heavily modify the fuel tank so it won't deliver fuel at such high pressures?

Megadan · 05-12-2022, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okierider

Purportedly with a thinner head gasket, 4* key and better intake/exhaust they make nearly 30.

No. Just no.

Okierider · 05-12-2022, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

No. Just no.

Why not?
If you know anything about the 172fmm I’d love to hear it. All we can find in the Templar thread are YouTube videos from Russia where the motor seems to be more popular and they specifically cite changes made to the motor to get it imported into the US.

Megadan · 05-12-2022, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okierider

Why not?
If you know anything about the 172fmm I’d love to hear it. All we can find in the Templar thread are YouTube videos from Russia where the motor seems to be more popular and they specifically cite changes made to the motor to get it imported into the US.

I don't have to know a single thing about that engine to know that those teeny little upgrades would not make 10hp. Half a point in compression and 4 degrees of advance on their own... maybe 2hp, and that is being generous. You aren't seeing 10hp without a camshaft and port work.

Okierider · 05-12-2022, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

I don't have to know a single thing about that engine to know that those teeny little upgrades would not make 10hp. Half a point in compression and 4 degrees of advance on their own... maybe 2hp, and that is being generous. You aren't seeing 10hp without a camshaft and port work.

So you haven’t worked on this motor. Shame. Seems we have the same experience with it.

Megadan · 05-12-2022, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okierider

So you haven’t worked on this motor. Shame. Seems we have the same experience with it.

Yep, sure does. That doesn't make me wrong though. I have worked on and modified enough engines to know how much power some mods will make. My total experience with a large number and assortment of other engines makes up for my lack of specific knowledge of this one. Thinner head gasket and a measly 4 degrees of timing advance on a 2 valve air cooled single will not make 10hp. Period. I would bet my entire retirement portfolio on that with total confidence.

Go ask any actual engine builder if you don't believe me, they will tell you the same thing.

**JerryHawk250** · 05-13-2022, 08:16 AM

I have to agree with Megadan on this one. A Thinner head gasket and 4 degrees of timing advance on a 2 valve air cooled single will not make 10hp. 2hp maybe. If you read i my sig, the X22R which I've done way more engine work than those mods and probably picked up 4-5 hp which percentage wise is a lot on these small engines.

tpelle · 05-15-2022, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badluck

Say you manage to swap the engine.

Are you going to keep the fuel injection? Can you develop a new fuel map?

If you go over to carbureted, would you need to heavily modify the fuel tank so it won't deliver fuel at such high pressures?

Regarding switching the tank from fuel injection to carburetor. There are kits available for the unit construction Royal Enfield 500/535 cc singles to switch them to either an Amal or a Mikuni carburetor. These kits are available through Hitchcock's Motorcycles in the UK. Details are available on their web site through a Google search.

Anyway, the kits include the carb (properly jetted for the application), adapters for the manifolds, fuel lines, etc., as well as the modification that deletes the fuel injection fuel pump and replaces it with an off/run/reserve petcock. They also include spoofer plugs and instructions to make the fuel injection ECU happy with the fuel injection deletion.

Regarding the fuel pump, from the factory the fuel pump is installed on a bolt-on plate that is gasketed and bolted to the bottom of the tank. This plate, including the pump and its electrical connections, is unbolted from the tank and is replaced by a similar gasketed and bolted adapter plate which is drilled and tapped for the petcock.

I haven't seen one, but I bet that the fuel on the Chinabikes are mounted the same way in order to facilitate replacement if the pump should ever fail.

05-11-2022, 11:58 PM	#1
olds_cool63 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maricopa, AZ Posts: 159	Just wondering....engine swap? Sooooo...the Lifan X-pect 200 is still on my radar. At some point, I'm gonna want a bit more power. Not really interested in all the work in trying to get more power out of a 163FML. Would there be a slightly larger engine, TRUE 250 (not 223) - 350, that can be a direct or easy drop in? I don't mind picking up an older, used engine and rebuilding it. Some fabbing's ok. If I get this bike, I may actually want to commute on it every now and then. Would mostly be for riding around town, or so. But, would be nice to have more torque and hp's for the highway. If it can be done, I would look at a rear disk conversion...story for another day. So, any ideas? __________________ Nuff said. olds_cool63 ======= Johnny Pag Pagsta (replaced 50cc engine with 110cc, modded-out) 2007 Tank Vision Topline Khaos (cosmetic mods, cherry-bombs) 2005 Kymco Vitality 50 2T (70cc big bore kit, other race mods...tops out at 67mph) 2008 Hyosung GT250 (cosmetic mods) 2001 Suzuki Bandit GFS1200S (cosmetic and slight mods...150mph+)
	0

05-12-2022, 04:08 AM	#3
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,019	I mean, depending on how far you want to take it... An XR250 engine is a good somewhat drop in, some fab option. The downside to XR engines is parts availability is limited, and kickstart only. We had a gentleman here at one time swap an XR500 engine into a Hawk. Obviously it took a bit more than a little fab work. http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=21177 __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	1

05-12-2022, 07:38 AM	#4
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,871	From what you said in post 1, why bother to go to all this trouble and expense? Easier to just get a 250. The new 249cc Lifan KPX is a completely different bike; basically everything on the bike is upgraded from the X-pect. __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	0

05-12-2022, 07:49 AM	#5
Okierider Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 252	The 172fmm motor may be an option? 249cc, and they seem to be pretty readily available on eBay for $600 and (supposedly) make 20 horse. Purportedly with a thinner head gasket, 4* key and better intake/exhaust they make nearly 30. Or you could get a Templar 250 with said engine and go from there for 2k. __________________ 2022 X-Pro Templar X 250 “Rocinante” 2022 X-Pro Bolt 125cc “Dapple” 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 “Traveller” 2023 Royal Enfield Classic 350 “Trigger”
	1

05-13-2022, 08:16 AM	#12
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,561	I have to agree with Megadan on this one. A Thinner head gasket and 4 degrees of timing advance on a 2 valve air cooled single will not make 10hp. 2hp maybe. If you read i my sig, the X22R which I've done way more engine work than those mods and probably picked up 4-5 hp which percentage wise is a lot on these small engines. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	1

05-12-2022, 12:40 AM	#2
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,290	Not even the CG250 167fmm is a true 250cc as it only taps the 229cc mark. There is/are CG300 aircooled cylinder heads which I have seen in South American YT clips being fitted to a CG200 case modified to fit. I preemptively purchased the CG300 cylinder/piston kit (70mm bore) from aliexpress to go onto my CG250 case with a jug skirt machine down...But this won't be an option on a CG200case. from a stock 63mm piston you might be able to get a 65.5mm kit to fit without major fuss... So the slightly larger engine as a whole would be a CG250.
	0

05-12-2022, 10:47 AM	#6
Badluck Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 80	Say you manage to swap the engine. Are you going to keep the fuel injection? Can you develop a new fuel map? If you go over to carbureted, would you need to heavily modify the fuel tank so it won't deliver fuel at such high pressures?
	0