Hawk 250 excessive ticking - Page 2

TxTaoRider · 03-04-2022, 04:12 AM

Does it get any louder or quieter when it's warmed up or cold?

swanpuppy · 03-04-2022, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

Does it get any louder or quieter when it's warmed up or cold?

I let it run last night for a bit to test this theory while I was pressing on different parts of the motor and trying to tighten different bolts. There was no change from 100% cold start until the motor was radiating and all warmed up.

I was thinking if something was blocking an oil passage and not letting oil into the top end? Im not an engine expert, but ill pull the cover again and maybe loosen and pull the valve train, see if anything in there is loose and tighten it all down again. I dont anticipate removing the tank will be hard, I can pull that for a better visual.

TxTaoRider · 03-04-2022, 08:50 AM

I was thinking piston slap, I mean I have no idea the quality control of tolerances. But that usually gets quieter after the engine warms up.

China Rider 27 · 03-04-2022, 10:08 AM

I would cycle it over and watch the valve train. If I could not find something obvious in the valve train, as much as I would hate to do it, I might consider starting it up with the valve cover off just to see and hear. Maybe tape some plastic all around the head to keep it contained some. Could be something off with the valve train you can only identify with a look.

Hunnicutt · 03-04-2022, 10:18 AM

An old school mechanic taught me a trick. Take a 2' long straight slot screwdriver. Place it against the engine components in question. Place the handle against your ear. The screwdriver acts as a rudimentary stethoscope. Listen for grinding, ticking, ugliness. That may help you pinpoint the actual source of the problems.

If you don't have a 2' long screwdriver, head to Hazard Fraught and buy one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html

lilgman · 03-04-2022, 11:49 AM

I agree with Hunnicutt's suggestion, but I've had better luck using a piece of tubing (fuel line) for my "stethoscope."

swanpuppy · 03-04-2022, 11:52 AM

I can try to isolate the sound, but right now I have the head off, valves off etc. Valves looked fine.. no scratches, dents, wear marks, everything had plenty of oil so its not an oiling issue. All bolts were stupid tight so nothing was loose or rattling. With the valves out I looked at the inside, again, no scoring.

The only scratches I saw were on the valve cover by the exhaust rocker, there was some light scuffs on the side, but not enough to be the non stop clacking noise from running for 15 minutes, I assume they are from taking it on off and brushing the rocker arm. Im at a loss. it sounds like valves to me (not an expert) but there is nothing I can find that looks wrong.

What is the next step, remove the head? Im past my knowledge at this point and dont think I want a full rebuild, I just cant imagine whats making a clack noise in time with the motor.

swanpuppy · 03-04-2022, 01:26 PM

Here are some pics of the head removed. I dont see anything wrong.... unless someone has an idea I think im going to put it all back together, run it, and get a scope to try and listen?

https://www.linkpicture.com/q/IMG_1021.jpg
https://www.linkpicture.com/q/IMG_1020.jpg

Michigan Sportsman · 03-04-2022, 02:14 PM

How about the oil pump nut that comes loose and rattles?

YouTube… “Hawk DLX EFI 250cc Motorcycle Engine Rattle FIXED”

swanpuppy · 03-04-2022, 05:34 PM

Alright update time.

1. Pulled the head/valves, nothing looked wrong to my eyes, no dents in the piston etc.
2. checked the oil pump nut as two members have suggested it, its on there solid, no play, no metal shavings or issues in there.
3. reassembled the bike, fired it up, noise is still there. It 'seems' a little less, but its still a clacking sound. I used a new Hazard Fraught scope to listen. If I put it on the valve cover I can hear distinct metal clacking. I also put it on the horizontal metal cylinder on the outside of the bike, above the shifter, it appears to be part of the starter? I could hear the clacking there as well but I wonder if thats just noise transmission.

At this point im at a loss. The noise still seems to be valves but why they are like this im not sure. For giggles I may swap the rockers from my red bike (quiet one) to the blue bike (loud one) just to test if its the rockers somehow being odd, but im not sure how they could be.

DoomHead · 03-04-2022, 09:31 PM

Check the valves again.

swanpuppy · 03-08-2022, 03:08 PM

I thought I would give an update to this. After taking the engine apart, putting it together, checking valves again, etc. The noise is still there. Its a loud clicking ticking noise that im positive is valves. I took it out for a ride last weekend and the bike worked well, good power, nothing wrong except for the sound of the valves going. Im going to keep an eye on them and keep checking their gaps, monitor for shavings and other issues. Ill update the thread again if I find a resolution or have further issues. Thanks all for the help.

Ol,fart · 03-08-2022, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanpuppy

I thought I would give an update to this. After taking the engine apart, putting it together, checking valves again, etc. The noise is still there. Its a loud clicking ticking noise that im positive is valves. I took it out for a ride last weekend and the bike worked well, good power, nothing wrong except for the sound of the valves going. Im going to keep an eye on them and keep checking their gaps, monitor for shavings and other issues. Ill update the thread again if I find a resolution or have further issues. Thanks all for the help.

Has anyone had any problems with the lower rockers on these engines? or piston wrist pin? just random thoughts.

**JerryHawk250** · 03-08-2022, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol,fart

Has anyone had any problems with the lower rockers on these engines? or piston wrist pin? just random thoughts.

I can't comment on the newer Hawks but my 2016 Hawk has ran flawlessly. I think i have close to 9000 miles on her now. I just do regular oil changes and maintenance and she keeps chugging along.

swanpuppy · 03-15-2022, 10:09 AM

Update:. I've taken the bike out on some shorter rides, pushed it etc. Yesterday a new noise was added to the excessive clacking, almost like a wrring of a gear.

I removed the valve cover this morning to check clearances and I noticed while rotating the crank by hand, on the compression stroke. I would turn the crank slightly (under pressure so I go slow) and when I go to twist the wrench for another turn there is a slight wrrrr sound as it sounds almost like the cam gear rotated clockwise? And after the TDC is reached the cam frees up and spins freely there is an audible clack as something hits behind the cam cover. Is there anything special I need to do to remove the cam cover and inspect what is behind here? Does the starter come off?

03-04-2022, 04:12 AM	#16
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	Does it get any louder or quieter when it's warmed up or cold? __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
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03-04-2022, 08:50 AM	#18
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	I was thinking piston slap, I mean I have no idea the quality control of tolerances. But that usually gets quieter after the engine warms up. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	0

03-04-2022, 10:18 AM	#20
Hunnicutt Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Central Florida Posts: 103	An old school mechanic taught me a trick. Take a 2' long straight slot screwdriver. Place it against the engine components in question. Place the handle against your ear. The screwdriver acts as a rudimentary stethoscope. Listen for grinding, ticking, ugliness. That may help you pinpoint the actual source of the problems. If you don't have a 2' long screwdriver, head to Hazard Fraught and buy one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html __________________ ___________________________________ 2021 CSC TT250 - Silver (Mine) "Buzz" 2021 CSC TT250 - White (Wife's) "Seymour" 2021 CSC TT250 - White (Daughter's) "Gemini"
	2

03-04-2022, 02:14 PM	#24
Michigan Sportsman Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Avoca, Michigan Posts: 32	How about the oil pump nut that comes loose and rattles? YouTube… “Hawk DLX EFI 250cc Motorcycle Engine Rattle FIXED” __________________ 2021 Hawk DLX 250 2015 Super Hornet 150 2008 Honda VTX1300R 1982 Kawasaki KD80 - (Sold)
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03-04-2022, 09:31 PM	#26
DoomHead Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: North Carolina Posts: 55	Check the valves again. __________________ 2010 Yamaha TTR 250 2020 RPS Hawk DLX 250 1989 Yamaha Big Bear 4x4 350 1984 Honda XR200R dual carb (Sold) You give me a reason to drink. I told her to stay right in the mud hole. She went left. Now her nickname is "Swamp Thing." Every hill is climbable, if you're brave enough. Let's go to the jewelry store, she said. It'll be fun, she said.
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03-04-2022, 10:08 AM	#19
China Rider 27 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: PNW Posts: 982	I would cycle it over and watch the valve train. If I could not find something obvious in the valve train, as much as I would hate to do it, I might consider starting it up with the valve cover off just to see and hear. Maybe tape some plastic all around the head to keep it contained some. Could be something off with the valve train you can only identify with a look.
	0

03-04-2022, 11:49 AM	#21
lilgman Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Lesotho Posts: 105	I agree with Hunnicutt's suggestion, but I've had better luck using a piece of tubing (fuel line) for my "stethoscope."
	0

03-04-2022, 11:52 AM	#22
swanpuppy Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 17	I can try to isolate the sound, but right now I have the head off, valves off etc. Valves looked fine.. no scratches, dents, wear marks, everything had plenty of oil so its not an oiling issue. All bolts were stupid tight so nothing was loose or rattling. With the valves out I looked at the inside, again, no scoring. The only scratches I saw were on the valve cover by the exhaust rocker, there was some light scuffs on the side, but not enough to be the non stop clacking noise from running for 15 minutes, I assume they are from taking it on off and brushing the rocker arm. Im at a loss. it sounds like valves to me (not an expert) but there is nothing I can find that looks wrong. What is the next step, remove the head? Im past my knowledge at this point and dont think I want a full rebuild, I just cant imagine whats making a clack noise in time with the motor.
	0

03-04-2022, 01:26 PM	#23
swanpuppy Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 17	Here are some pics of the head removed. I dont see anything wrong.... unless someone has an idea I think im going to put it all back together, run it, and get a scope to try and listen? https://www.linkpicture.com/q/IMG_1021.jpg https://www.linkpicture.com/q/IMG_1020.jpg
	0

03-04-2022, 05:34 PM	#25
swanpuppy Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 17	Alright update time. 1. Pulled the head/valves, nothing looked wrong to my eyes, no dents in the piston etc. 2. checked the oil pump nut as two members have suggested it, its on there solid, no play, no metal shavings or issues in there. 3. reassembled the bike, fired it up, noise is still there. It 'seems' a little less, but its still a clacking sound. I used a new Hazard Fraught scope to listen. If I put it on the valve cover I can hear distinct metal clacking. I also put it on the horizontal metal cylinder on the outside of the bike, above the shifter, it appears to be part of the starter? I could hear the clacking there as well but I wonder if thats just noise transmission. At this point im at a loss. The noise still seems to be valves but why they are like this im not sure. For giggles I may swap the rockers from my red bike (quiet one) to the blue bike (loud one) just to test if its the rockers somehow being odd, but im not sure how they could be.
	0

03-08-2022, 03:08 PM	#27
swanpuppy Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 17	I thought I would give an update to this. After taking the engine apart, putting it together, checking valves again, etc. The noise is still there. Its a loud clicking ticking noise that im positive is valves. I took it out for a ride last weekend and the bike worked well, good power, nothing wrong except for the sound of the valves going. Im going to keep an eye on them and keep checking their gaps, monitor for shavings and other issues. Ill update the thread again if I find a resolution or have further issues. Thanks all for the help.
	1

03-15-2022, 10:09 AM	#30
swanpuppy Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 17	Update:. I've taken the bike out on some shorter rides, pushed it etc. Yesterday a new noise was added to the excessive clacking, almost like a wrring of a gear. I removed the valve cover this morning to check clearances and I noticed while rotating the crank by hand, on the compression stroke. I would turn the crank slightly (under pressure so I go slow) and when I go to twist the wrench for another turn there is a slight wrrrr sound as it sounds almost like the cam gear rotated clockwise? And after the TDC is reached the cam frees up and spins freely there is an audible clack as something hits behind the cam cover. Is there anything special I need to do to remove the cam cover and inspect what is behind here? Does the starter come off?
	0