Rear Caliper Stuck Shut On New 2021 TBR7

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by severely

I agree with Magician16 on the torque values. You just need to bleed the system, you've got air in the system cracking the bleeder valve and repositioning the line. Again, patience is your friend, you're almost there.

Will it hurt, help or make any difference to pump it a few times with the valve closed, then open it a 1/4ish turn or do I keep just pumping it once?

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by Magician16

1. On a Bashan, it's 18-22; I assume it's the same. I don't torque them. I just put loctite on them and tighten them to where they feel tight.
2. You could possibly break the pad, but you'd have to beat your lever with a hammer.
3. You pulled a vacuum in the line caused by the check valve in the mini bleeder.

Do you not recomend the mini bleeder?

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Will it hurt, help or make any difference to pump it a few times with the valve closed, then open it a 1/4ish turn or do I keep just pumping it once?

Give it 2 or 3 pumps, then open bleed valve. Repeat until firmness returns to the pedal then go to the single pump to further chase air from the system. when you get a really firm pedal then tap the caliper with a screwdriver handle to chase out any small air pockets left in the caliper.

[Magician16]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Do you not recomend the mini bleeder?

I think it's probably a great tool. The check valve keeps you from getting air bubbles into the system. You're really close to getting it done. Pump the brakes 2 or 3 times, keep the lever down, open the minibleeder for a second to let air out and close it back up. Repeat until no air bubbles are seen escaping in the hose. Make sure your reservoir is open and full during this process. If it empties, you'll have to start over. When only brake fluid show up in hose, close the bleeder and remove. Refill the reservoir and seal it. Then do slow pumps until it's firm.



I wish I were there to help. It's literally a 30 second process.

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Hallelujah! Houston we have one less problem! he caliper's on the disc!
Look out gentlemen. The animated emojis are out of control!
I appreciate y'alls awsome help more than words and animated emojis can describe.

Sorry but I still have questions though.
1) Does anyone know what those 12mm caliper mounting bolts should be torqued at?
2) Not that I went crazy spreading the pads apart but, would it have been possible to spread them too far?
3) For some stupid, inexperienced reason, I tried to bleed/flush the brake fluid before spreading the pads. It got to the point where there wasn't any spongy-ness to it. The pedal would just bottom out and no fluid was really coming out. The fluid in the reservoir wasn't depleting either.
Any suggestions?
Again, I appreciate and value you all's help so much

How are things going? Got the brakes sorted yet? Inquiring minds won't be satisfied until you declare victory.

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by severely

How are things going? Got the brakes sorted yet? Inquiring minds won't be satisfied until you declare victory.

Sorry that took so long guys. My job's just way too demanding this time of year.
Yes, thanks to you all's way appreciated help, the calipers spread apart. I got them back on the mounts then bled the old brake fluid out so I have new fluid in. The brake pedal feels right. Everything's greased, new heavy duty inner tube, spokes all tightened, wheel seems true/even, new sprocket studs & stud nuts & I cleaned the disc & caliper. While I was in there, I took the top and bottom shock bolts out, greased, Locktited & torqued them. Took the swing arm bolt out & greased it up real good. I even put a zert/fitting in to keep the swing arm greased with my new, heavy duty grease gun. I'm astonished at what this "opposite of a mechanic" pulled off with some awesome help. Thank all of you SO much.
That's the good news.
The bad news is that I still ended up with the original scraping noise when I turn the rear wheel. It doesn't seem like the pads spread far enough apart.
At least now I know where the sound's coming from. The wheel turns fairly free although it'd be more free without the scraping. The brakes stop it completely like they're supposed to and they're adjusted correctly. The front wheel's doing the same thing. Making the same noise.
Do y'all think my TBR7 came with bad calipers? Will it go away as the pads wear a little? I only have about 3 miles on it because I don't want to hurt anything.

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Sorry that took so long guys. My job's just way too demanding this time of year.
Yes, thanks to you all's way appreciated help, the calipers spread apart. I got them back on the mounts then bled the old brake fluid out so I have new fluid in. The brake pedal feels right. Everything's greased, new heavy duty inner tube, spokes all tightened, wheel seems true/even, new sprocket studs & stud nuts & I cleaned the disc & caliper. While I was in there, I took the top and bottom shock bolts out, greased, Locktited & torqued them. Took the swing arm bolt out & greased it up real good. I even put a zert/fitting in to keep the swing arm greased with my new, heavy duty grease gun. I'm astonished at what this "opposite of a mechanic" pulled off with some awesome help. Thank all of you SO much.
That's the good news.
The bad news is that I still ended up with the original scraping noise when I turn the rear wheel. It doesn't seem like the pads spread far enough apart.
At least now I know where the sound's coming from. The wheel turns fairly free although it'd be more free without the scraping. The brakes stop it completely like they're supposed to and they're adjusted correctly. The front wheel's doing the same thing. Making the same noise.
Do y'all think my TBR7 came with bad calipers? Will it go away as the pads wear a little? I only have about 3 miles on it because I don't want to hurt anything.

Outstanding news. Do the calipers bolt solidly to the forks/swingarm or are they bolted to a plate where there have movement on pins? If they are solidly mounted there is a "wearing in " process where they make some noise until bedded in. Make sure your reservoirs aren't overfilled so the brake fluid has somewhere to go after the brake releases. If they float on pins you want to make sure they float smoothly back and forth, not sticking or binding. My congratulations on your newfound mechanical learning, you're really starting to gain experience/knowledge.

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by severely

Outstanding news. Do the calipers bolt solidly to the forks/swingarm or are they bolted to a plate where there have movement on pins? If they are solidly mounted there is a "wearing in " process where they make some noise until bedded in. Make sure your reservoirs aren't overfilled so the brake fluid has somewhere to go after the brake releases. If they float on pins you want to make sure they float smoothly back and forth, not sticking or binding. My congratulations on your newfound mechanical learning, you're really starting to gain experience/knowledge.

Thank you for responding.
The caliper housing bolts solidly to the caliper/brake mount. The caliper/brake mount is solid to the swing arm and also acts as the axel spacer/bushing between the swing arm and the wheel hub. If the axle nut's loosened, the mount slides backwards and forward on that steel, solid nub that's coming out of the swing arm (for chain adjustments). As far as I know, there's no movement. If anyone knows I'm wrong here, please chime in.
<<a "wearing in " process where they make some noise>>
That sure is good to hear Severely! Is that noise it makes during the wear in process a kind of a scraping sound? If that's normal, I'm feeling real good about it. Again, the front wheel's making the same(ish) noise.
All the praise & applause goes to y'all, not me. All the help I get form y'all is the only thing making any of this possible. Hopefully, I'll eventually graduate from my title of "The Opposite of a Mechanic", to "Not No Mechanic".
Hey, I guy can dream can't he?

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Thank you for responding.
The caliper housing bolts solidly to the caliper/brake mount. The caliper/brake mount is solid to the swing arm and also acts as the axel spacer/bushing between the swing arm and the wheel hub. If the axle nut's loosened, the mount slides backwards and forward on that steel, solid nub that's coming out of the swing arm (for chain adjustments). As far as I know, there's no movement. If anyone knows I'm wrong here, please chime in.
<<a "wearing in " process where they make some noise>>
That sure is good to hear Severely! Is that noise it makes during the wear in process a kind of a scraping sound? If that's normal, I'm feeling real good about it. Again, the front wheel's making the same(ish) noise.
All the praise & applause goes to y'all, not me. All the help I get form y'all is the only thing making any of this possible. Hopefully, I'll eventually graduate from my title of "The Opposite of a Mechanic", to "Not No Mechanic".
Hey, I guy can dream can't he?

Most brake pads are semi-metallic in composition, the metal in the pads is slightly rubbing against the rotor. Make SURE the reservoir is not overfilled as this condition will cause brake "dragging". You should be able to turn either wheel fairly easily after releasing to check. When it warms up a little take it out for a ride to check brakes and chain tension, there should be slack in the chain when seated on the bike and afterward check your spoke tension. Listen for the "music" the spokes make. You learn a lot just by asking the right questions. Good luck

[buzz]

Hello I own a TBR7 myself, there should be no scraping sound. Sounds to me like brake pads are backwards. Just my thought ,easy to check. Good luck

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by buzz

Hello I own a TBR7 myself, there should be no scraping sound. Sounds to me like brake pads are backwards. Just my thought ,easy to check. Good luck

Is that a thing Buzz? Have you ever heard of a TBR7 coming new with the pads on backwards? How do I check? Just reverse them? What year model is yours?
Any thoughts on this Severely? It does sound logical but everthing you guys tell me sounds logical because it is?

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

Is that a thing Buzz? Have you ever heard of a TBR7 coming new with the pads on backwards? How do I check? Just reverse them? What year model is yours?
Any thoughts on this Severely? It does sound logical but everthing you guys tell me sounds logical because it is?

Sure could be reversed, anything is possible. I guess the question is how loudly/badly is the scraping sound. Do the wheels turn freely when the brake is released? Is the sound only heard when the bikes wheels are off the ground with the engine not running. It's all about what your opinion/judgement is right now as it's quite impossible to "hear" over the internet. Once again are you sure the reservoirs not overfull? Do the brakes allow easy turning of either wheel when released? Brake systems need space in the reservoirs to release pressure on the pads. Do your levers/pedals have free play to allow brakes to release properly? If this isn't sufficient your brakes will "drag",i.e., fail to release. There are small holes in the master cylinders to allow full release when the levers/pedals have a small amount of free play and reservoirs aren't overfull. Good luck, we're here with you and not going away till you declare victory. Are both brakes having the same symptoms?

[Tomkay44]

Originally Posted by severely

Sure could be reversed, anything is possible. I guess the question is how loudly/badly is the scraping sound. Do the wheels turn freely when the brake is released? Is the sound only heard when the bikes wheels are off the ground with the engine not running. It's all about what your opinion/judgement is right now as it's quite impossible to "hear" over the internet. Once again are you sure the reservoirs not overfull? Do the brakes allow easy turning of either wheel when released? Brake systems need space in the reservoirs to release pressure on the pads. Do your levers/pedals have free play to allow brakes to release properly? If this isn't sufficient your brakes will "drag",i.e., fail to release. There are small holes in the master cylinders to allow full release when the levers/pedals have a small amount of free play and reservoirs aren't overfull. Good luck, we're here with you and not going away till you declare victory. Are both brakes having the same symptoms?

First, thanks again for all your good time & help Severely. So much appreciated.
<<are you sure the reservoirs not overfull?>>
I'm keeping it right inbetween the high and low fill lines. Do you think it should be more torwards the low line? I have the reservoir mounted level/horizontal on the frame.
It didn't come that way but, to me, that just made sense. Should I tilt it back parallel to the frame bar it mounts to (about 45°)? I'm not noticing any difference from when it was and it was hard to tell if you had too much or too little fluid in there. When I see pictures, it seems like everyone else does.
<<how loudly/badly is the scraping sound?>>
It's definitely noticeable. You sure don't have to squint your ears to hear it. I suppose I could video it and post on YouTube or email it to you if you want me to.
<<Do the brakes allow easy turning of either wheel when released?>>
BACK WHEEL: Yes. On the stand, when the brakes are released and the bikes out of gear, it'll only free spins about 1/4 turn, give or take, because the chain and both sprockets are slowing it. Do you want me to unmount the calipers to see if there's a significant difference?
FRONT WHEEL: Bear in mind. I haven't taken it back off and greased the axle & bearings yet (That's next.). It'll free spin about 1.5+ full rotations with the brake released. The scraping noise from it is the same sound but a bit higher so not quite as loud. It also gets louder and softer as the wheel rotates as if the disc is a little warped. It almost goes away at a certain point in the rotation
<<Do your levers/pedals have free play to allow brakes to release properly?>>
Yes. I have the reccomend .5" play on the front brake lever and 1" play on the back pedal.
<<Is the sound only heard when the bikes wheels are off the ground with the engine not running?>>
No. When it's off the stand & I roll the bike around, you can definitely hear it just as much but you only notice the rear wheel because it's so much louder. Of course, when the engines on, you can't notice it. It's definitely not as loud as the engine.
When I first assembled it, after I change out the "break in oil" and re-jetted the stock (didn't put in the two washers yet though), it started right up. It seemed to run and ride just great. With all the noise that was supposed to be happening, you didn't hear the scraping. Either that, or it just rhythmically blended in. I put 3.4 kilometers (or miles) on it and have been tweaking on it ever since.
If the pads are on backwards, can I do anything about it? Are they glued on there?

[J4Fun]

[QUOTE=Tomkay44;372988]
<<a "wearing in " process where they make some noise>>
That sure is good to hear Severely! Is that noise it makes during the wear in process a kind of a scraping sound? If that's normal, I'm feeling real good about it. Again, the front wheel's making the same(ish) noise.

Just a thought here, if the noise is coming from the front too, wouldn’t you think that rotor rust from not using the bike maybe the cause? If the front and back sound the same my thoughts are you need to drive the bike and see if the noise dissipates.

[severely]

Originally Posted by Tomkay44

First, thanks again for all your good time & help Severely. So much appreciated.
<<are you sure the reservoirs not overfull?>>
I'm keeping it right inbetween the high and low fill lines. Do you think it should be more torwards the low line? I have the reservoir mounted level/horizontal on the frame.
It didn't come that way but, to me, that just made sense. Should I tilt it back parallel to the frame bar it mounts to (about 45°)? I'm not noticing any difference from when it was and it was hard to tell if you had too much or too little fluid in there. When I see pictures, it seems like everyone else does.
<<how loudly/badly is the scraping sound?>>
It's definitely noticeable. You sure don't have to squint your ears to hear it. I suppose I could video it and post on YouTube or email it to you if you want me to.
<<Do the brakes allow easy turning of either wheel when released?>>
BACK WHEEL: Yes. On the stand, when the brakes are released and the bikes out of gear, it'll only free spins about 1/4 turn, give or take, because the chain and both sprockets are slowing it. Do you want me to unmount the calipers to see if there's a significant difference?
FRONT WHEEL: Bear in mind. I haven't taken it back off and greased the axle & bearings yet (That's next.). It'll free spin about 1.5+ full rotations with the brake released. The scraping noise from it is the same sound but a bit higher so not quite as loud. It also gets louder and softer as the wheel rotates as if the disc is a little warped. It almost goes away at a certain point in the rotation
<<Do your levers/pedals have free play to allow brakes to release properly?>>
Yes. I have the reccomend .5" play on the front brake lever and 1" play on the back pedal.
<<Is the sound only heard when the bikes wheels are off the ground with the engine not running?>>
No. When it's off the stand & I roll the bike around, you can definitely hear it just as much but you only notice the rear wheel because it's so much louder. Of course, when the engines on, you can't notice it. It's definitely not as loud as the engine.
When I first assembled it, after I change out the "break in oil" and re-jetted the stock (didn't put in the two washers yet though), it started right up. It seemed to run and ride just great. With all the noise that was supposed to be happening, you didn't hear the scraping. Either that, or it just rhythmically blended in. I put 3.4 kilometers (or miles) on it and have been tweaking on it ever since.
If the pads are on backwards, can I do anything about it? Are they glued on there?

OK, sounds like you're good on the reservoirs and free play. It also sounds like your front wheel is of concern because of the "pulsing", i.e. different scraping sounds rotating. Do you own a dial indicator to measure disc rotor trueness? If so give it a look before you disassemble to grease axle and bearings. IF not a magic marker will suffice to see warping, place marker on fork leg and rotate wheel. Upon removal of the front caliper you can look it over. Most brake pads I've seen can be used either side but at this point others have stated they can be reversed so now is the time to evaluate and/ or swap sides. On the rear you'll want to check your rear rotor similarly to the front and with the chain removed from the sprockets. Please keep in mind the clearances between rotor and pads is very small for efficient braking and SOME scraping sounds can be normal. My hearing is very poor and it sounds as though yours is very good. Another way to check is to take it for a ride and check rotor temperature as they are a dead giveaway for dragging. If the rotors are out of true they require replacement before the brake issues are resolved. Good luck.