Spark Plug

Nospark · 02-23-2022, 02:07 PM

I suspect this may generate some very opinionated views. Is there a specific plug brand and # that these bikes run better on than the factory plug? I recently had a bad experience with factory plug in a China scoot. I see some mention of E3 other NGK but no specific # reference.

Michigan Sportsman · 02-23-2022, 02:37 PM

Please share your bad spark plug experience, maybe I can learn at your expense?

Megadan · 02-23-2022, 02:44 PM

NGK: D8EA, DR8EA, DPR8EA, DPR8EIX

The R is a resistor plug. The P is for an extended electrode. You can use either or without issue. The IX is an iridium plug.

Nospark · 02-23-2022, 02:57 PM

My experience with the China 150cc scoot was that I ordered an electronics package of Amazon. The package came with a new coil, spark wire & no name china plug. The scoot had spark but wouldn't run. After a lot of trouble shooting time invested, I learned the plug was way under gap at .003". I bout a new NGK and ran it at factory .014" gap and the scoot started and ran great. Was the China plug factory gap suppose to be .003"? Was it a bad plug? was it a great plug that was sold for the wrong application? We can only ponder such things. I just figured why not ditch the factory TBR7 plug during assembly, prior to 1st start, and put in a name brand plug others have found to work well. In my experience, quality name brand plugs come factory gaped. Not saying I guy shouldn;t verify it out of the box but, almost always correct with NGK in my experience.

wally · 02-23-2022, 05:34 PM

You shouldn't even mess with the gap on alot of modern plugs due to the coatings or softer electrode materials. Maybe not an issue with some of the older style plugs, but for the Iridiums at least you aren't supposed to alter the gap. For those if the gap is no good, return it and get one that is correct.

Nospark · 02-23-2022, 05:38 PM

Gonna go with the NGK D8EA. I'm not worried about it crating noise in my on board stereo system

Megadan · 02-23-2022, 06:43 PM

I set copper plug gaps to .7 - .8mm, or around .032" and the iridium I get the pregapped dpr8eix-9, which is gapped to .9mm or .036"

Oldenslow · 02-23-2022, 07:52 PM

I thought my Dongfeng DF250RTG was running fine. But I had a brand-new NGK on hand, so what the heck. I put it in and the boost in performance was dramatic.

Even if your bike is running great, don't assume the factory plug is up to snuff. Like just about every other component on these bikes they are the cheapest of the cheap.

Nospark · 02-23-2022, 10:48 PM

Many thanks to all. I'll check the factory gap on the NGK D8EA prior to install and see how close it is to the .036" Megadan's running.

Ol,fart · 02-23-2022, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nospark

My experience with the China 150cc scoot was that I ordered an electronics package of Amazon. The package came with a new coil, spark wire & no name china plug. The scoot had spark but wouldn't run. After a lot of trouble shooting time invested, I learned the plug was way under gap at .003". I bout a new NGK and ran it at factory .014" gap and the scoot started and ran great. Was the China plug factory gap suppose to be .003"? Was it a bad plug? was it a great plug that was sold for the wrong application? We can only ponder such things. I just figured why not ditch the factory TBR7 plug during assembly, prior to 1st start, and put in a name brand plug others have found to work well. In my experience, quality name brand plugs come factory gaped. Not saying I guy shouldn;t verify it out of the box but, almost always correct with NGK in my experience.

I've been working as a mechanic since 1980 never heard of a pre gapped plug. electronic ignition should be set somewhere in the .040" to .050" range. points type around .030" but every engine has different specs. e3 for the mff167 is no.36.

Nospark · 02-24-2022, 10:52 AM

Some plugs today do come pre-gapped, and if this is the case it will say so on the box.
NGK Home Page states the following...
DO I NEED TO SET THE “GAP” WHEN INSTALLING A NEW SET OF PLUGS?
Maybe. A spark plug part number might fit hundreds of different engines from many different manufacturers. Although the NGK factory will set the gap to a preselected setting, this may not be the right gap for your particular engine. The incorrect plug gap for your engine can contribute to a high rate of misfires, loss of power, plug fouling, poor fuel economy and accelerated plug wear. It is always best to check the gap against the manufacturer’s specifications. If adjusting the gap on fine wire or precious metal plugs such as platinum or iridium, be very careful not to apply any pressure or prying force to the fine wire center electrode or insulator as they can be damaged. The gap should be adjusted by only moving the ground electrode.

Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004″ for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005″.

If you have any questions, please contact the NGK SPARK PLUGS TECH STAFF >>

The TBR7 manual states the OEM supplied spark plug is a NGK/D8EA. Tightening torque of 8.7 lb*ft and a plug gap of 0.6-0.8 mm. (.0236" - .0315"). My bike came with a plug marked D8RTC 115529. It requires a non-standard spark plug socket of 11/16". I quick check on the Google suggests the plug that came in the bike is a "Torch". I'm sure this is a super high performance plug in some regions of the world.
If my TBR7 came with the o-ring chain and NGK plug it references, I would be a happier guy.

Nospark · 02-24-2022, 11:26 AM

Megadan, RU experiencing the bang for the $ with the NGK iridium? What's the value, longer life? Hotter spark? I don't mind spending the money if it's worth it. As you know reading plug burn can tell you a lot about fuel mixture. Is this still the case with the iridium?

wally · 02-24-2022, 01:57 PM

I have the iridium in my bike. It still looks really good, only 1k street miles on it.

It didn't change the way the bike ran vs the stock chinese plug.

I also have the non iridium version of the same NGK plug, which also ran the same.

The iridium coating is kind of a high mileage/lasting longer type thing, I think in a simple motor with such a simple carb, that it will get fouled for other reasons first rather than the anything actually wearing out.

Megadan · 02-24-2022, 02:17 PM

Iridium plugs are worth it from a longevity point of view. Realistically, the plug will probably outlast the bike lol. They do offer a small benefit in terms of performance since the electrode is smaller and more conductive, but when I say performance, I don't mean power. Generally speaking the gap can be run a tad wider without issue of blowout, or at the same gap with more consistent spark long term.

All of that being said, I would also not hesitate to run a plain jane copper plug. I've run race motors with copper plugs.

There are guys that swear by the E3 plugs too.

From my perspective, as long as you use a good quality plug, the right heat range, and the right gap for the application, the actual plug itself is of little consequence.

Pick your poison and move on with your life.

kyle · 02-25-2022, 08:22 AM

I've run the same E3 for a few thousand miles now with no issue. Others swear by the NGK. I also changed the boot and coil.: https://tbr7.com/upgrades/electrical/

02-23-2022, 02:07 PM	#1
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Spark Plug I suspect this may generate some very opinionated views. Is there a specific plug brand and # that these bikes run better on than the factory plug? I recently had a bad experience with factory plug in a China scoot. I see some mention of E3 other NGK but no specific # reference.
	0

02-23-2022, 02:44 PM	#3
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,020	NGK: D8EA, DR8EA, DPR8EA, DPR8EIX The R is a resistor plug. The P is for an extended electrode. You can use either or without issue. The IX is an iridium plug. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 Last edited by Megadan; 02-23-2022 at 06:41 PM.
	0

02-23-2022, 06:43 PM	#7
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,020	I set copper plug gaps to .7 - .8mm, or around .032" and the iridium I get the pregapped dpr8eix-9, which is gapped to .9mm or .036" __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

02-24-2022, 02:17 PM	#14
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,020	Iridium plugs are worth it from a longevity point of view. Realistically, the plug will probably outlast the bike lol. They do offer a small benefit in terms of performance since the electrode is smaller and more conductive, but when I say performance, I don't mean power. Generally speaking the gap can be run a tad wider without issue of blowout, or at the same gap with more consistent spark long term. All of that being said, I would also not hesitate to run a plain jane copper plug. I've run race motors with copper plugs. There are guys that swear by the E3 plugs too. From my perspective, as long as you use a good quality plug, the right heat range, and the right gap for the application, the actual plug itself is of little consequence. Pick your poison and move on with your life. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	1

02-23-2022, 02:37 PM	#2
Michigan Sportsman Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Avoca, Michigan Posts: 32	Please share your bad spark plug experience, maybe I can learn at your expense?
	0

02-23-2022, 02:57 PM	#4
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	My experience with the China 150cc scoot was that I ordered an electronics package of Amazon. The package came with a new coil, spark wire & no name china plug. The scoot had spark but wouldn't run. After a lot of trouble shooting time invested, I learned the plug was way under gap at .003". I bout a new NGK and ran it at factory .014" gap and the scoot started and ran great. Was the China plug factory gap suppose to be .003"? Was it a bad plug? was it a great plug that was sold for the wrong application? We can only ponder such things. I just figured why not ditch the factory TBR7 plug during assembly, prior to 1st start, and put in a name brand plug others have found to work well. In my experience, quality name brand plugs come factory gaped. Not saying I guy shouldn;t verify it out of the box but, almost always correct with NGK in my experience.
	0

02-23-2022, 05:34 PM	#5
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 45	You shouldn't even mess with the gap on alot of modern plugs due to the coatings or softer electrode materials. Maybe not an issue with some of the older style plugs, but for the Iridiums at least you aren't supposed to alter the gap. For those if the gap is no good, return it and get one that is correct.
	0

02-23-2022, 05:38 PM	#6
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Gonna go with the NGK D8EA. I'm not worried about it crating noise in my on board stereo system
	0

02-23-2022, 07:52 PM	#8
Oldenslow Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 153	I thought my Dongfeng DF250RTG was running fine. But I had a brand-new NGK on hand, so what the heck. I put it in and the boost in performance was dramatic. Even if your bike is running great, don't assume the factory plug is up to snuff. Like just about every other component on these bikes they are the cheapest of the cheap.
	0

02-23-2022, 10:48 PM	#9
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Many thanks to all. I'll check the factory gap on the NGK D8EA prior to install and see how close it is to the .036" Megadan's running.
	0

02-24-2022, 10:52 AM	#11
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Some plugs today do come pre-gapped, and if this is the case it will say so on the box. NGK Home Page states the following... DO I NEED TO SET THE “GAP” WHEN INSTALLING A NEW SET OF PLUGS? Maybe. A spark plug part number might fit hundreds of different engines from many different manufacturers. Although the NGK factory will set the gap to a preselected setting, this may not be the right gap for your particular engine. The incorrect plug gap for your engine can contribute to a high rate of misfires, loss of power, plug fouling, poor fuel economy and accelerated plug wear. It is always best to check the gap against the manufacturer’s specifications. If adjusting the gap on fine wire or precious metal plugs such as platinum or iridium, be very careful not to apply any pressure or prying force to the fine wire center electrode or insulator as they can be damaged. The gap should be adjusted by only moving the ground electrode. Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004″ for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005″. If you have any questions, please contact the NGK SPARK PLUGS TECH STAFF >> The TBR7 manual states the OEM supplied spark plug is a NGK/D8EA. Tightening torque of 8.7 lb*ft and a plug gap of 0.6-0.8 mm. (.0236" - .0315"). My bike came with a plug marked D8RTC 115529. It requires a non-standard spark plug socket of 11/16". I quick check on the Google suggests the plug that came in the bike is a "Torch". I'm sure this is a super high performance plug in some regions of the world. If my TBR7 came with the o-ring chain and NGK plug it references, I would be a happier guy.
	0

02-24-2022, 11:26 AM	#12
Nospark Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Megadan, RU experiencing the bang for the $ with the NGK iridium? What's the value, longer life? Hotter spark? I don't mind spending the money if it's worth it. As you know reading plug burn can tell you a lot about fuel mixture. Is this still the case with the iridium?
	0

02-24-2022, 01:57 PM	#13
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 45	I have the iridium in my bike. It still looks really good, only 1k street miles on it. It didn't change the way the bike ran vs the stock chinese plug. I also have the non iridium version of the same NGK plug, which also ran the same. The iridium coating is kind of a high mileage/lasting longer type thing, I think in a simple motor with such a simple carb, that it will get fouled for other reasons first rather than the anything actually wearing out.
	0

02-25-2022, 08:22 AM	#15
kyle Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 105	I've run the same E3 for a few thousand miles now with no issue. Others swear by the NGK. I also changed the boot and coil.: https://tbr7.com/upgrades/electrical/
	0