RX6 650cc 2-cyl - Page 3

Skyteamst90 · 01-09-2020, 10:05 PM

One of the things which has not been mentioned beside personal opinons, which we all have one, is the fact that in the last 2000's there were over 1 million motorcycle sales, while today, there is half of that. Most of the motorcycle sales in the USA happen in California, which have the hardest EPA and regs for motorcycles. Texas and Florida follow in highest sales. The rest of the US doesnt need motorcycles due to weather and limited riding months.

The other problem is how many total sales are there of Chinese motorcycles? I would like to see those numbers. Does the DMV release that type of information?

Another factor is in the third-world, motorcycles are cheaper to own and purchase and used as a primary source of getting around - not so in the USA. Plus they are rode year-round. That may contribute to the lack the Chinese giving two whips about selling in the USA. They make more money selling Wal-marts crap and making iphones then selling motorcycles in the USA.

It seems that the common themes on this thread are public perception of Chinese motorcycles and cost. Just because one person on a forum says they will buy a motorcycle does not mean the rest of the enthusiasts in the USA are going to spend the same money. One buyer does not equal 10,000 sales. If this was true Benelli and Genuine G400C would be selling more units then they current are. For exaple, consider a UJM-type motorcycle for $4,599 isn't that bad, but people are not find value in a 25hp UJM-style Chinese made motorcycle. If it said Honda, there wouldn't be a problem. Chinese are going to have to make models and motors which can achieve 70+mph without a problem if they are going to compete. That will require at least 35hp in an engine.

Royal Enfield is doing things right. A good motorcycle for a great price. Less red tape at the factory level and a good business model. Higher quality and a good reputation. Plus mechanics will work on RE versus Chinese knock-offs.

Someone was talking about Hyosung. I know of them and they have the same problem, parts, dealers, etc. The factory would have to spend significant amount of money to establish the brand and offer something consumers need, not just another bike. Something would have to stand out about it.

I don't believe the Chinese will invest here in America (they only invest in porn, I wonder why?), becasue they can sell more motorcycles in South America, Africa and other third-world places and not have to deal with the American red tape b.s. Its a question of politics, regulations, and money. I don't see the Chinese comming here and making much more of a splash then they currently are. CSC is in a niche market and they are hanging in there selling their 250's, but how many can they hope to sell over the next ten years? If people have purchased their 2018, are those 2018's are going to start coming up broken and engine failures from bad bearings, cheaper parts etc. Then the question is that person could to purchase another Chinese bike? JANUS is even in a smaller niche. If in 10 ten years we are all still here, and haven't perished due to a war, and the motorcycle market magically increases back to 1 million sales a year again, then I could see maybe a move from them, but the sales numbers do not support the investment at this moment.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the Chinese stuff, because I think it has come along way since the 2000's, and various brands and models are being proved in other countries which will add to their credibilty. I have owned two Chinese now (one was a 2000's piece of junk), and I am looking at getting another one. However, if we know that the life expectancy of a Japanses model is at least 10 years, while a Chinese is closer to two or three, that is one area for the Chinese marques to improve. Until then we have CSC and others to order from.

Emerikol · 01-10-2020, 01:15 AM

The one thing I've seen mentioned repeatedly in the thread is price-point. While that's true to a point (terrible word choice there), I think that the break-out will come when a distributor pairs with a reputable, mainstream finance company. Then the price-point will become a non-issue for most of the market. Think about it, you don't pay for college up front before your first class, same for a new car, house, or pretty much anything else that would be considered a big-ticket item. The reason Japanese motorcycles have rocketed up in price over the past ten to fifteen years is because the dealer network has paired with reputable, reliable, responsible financing companies. Not companies that charge 23.99% interest, but a reasonable interest rate for the transaction. Hell, even Harbor Freight is talking about coming out with their own store branded credit card. To tie this back in to the motorcycle purchase discussion, I could cruise on up to my local cycle shop tomorrow and buy a brand new Royal Enfield motorcycle. The price on it would be somewhere in the $5,000-$6,000 range, depending on what model I wanted. Rather than shell out that money in a single hit for the bike, I would seriously look at financing options because it makes more sense to buy the bike in small bites over time, rather than deplete savings or wherever else that money came from. This is again where the Japanese market has lost the thread. If I tried to save $5k in most income/job markets today, by the time I got the cash together, the price of the bike would be $7,200. It's a no-win game. Finding the right group of companies to provide financing would be a critical step to building a lasting presence in the American market. Hyosung (I actually had one way back when) didn't team up with distributors capable of offering financing at any better rates that title pawn companies, and that's why they spent a fortune getting almost zero market penetration in the end. Making the purchase affordable to the largest number of people is going to be what drives growth.

Sport Rider · 01-10-2020, 08:38 AM

Key word "tightwad". I resemble that remark!

NzBrakelathes · 01-11-2020, 02:21 AM

If I had $$ I can buy this tomorrow
650cc
But why would you bother in a 1st world country?
Ok ok it’s the 650 bmw engine bike tho
Still china mentality and all the crap that goes along with it

NzBrakelathes · 01-15-2020, 07:49 PM

Going 850
https://mbd.baidu.com/newspage/data/...appinstalled=0

NzBrakelathes · 02-17-2020, 04:31 AM

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/mIjPXmLE_P3LhRurkz1ZXA

01-09-2020, 10:05 PM	#31
Skyteamst90 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Minneapolis, mn Posts: 175	One of the things which has not been mentioned beside personal opinons, which we all have one, is the fact that in the last 2000's there were over 1 million motorcycle sales, while today, there is half of that. Most of the motorcycle sales in the USA happen in California, which have the hardest EPA and regs for motorcycles. Texas and Florida follow in highest sales. The rest of the US doesnt need motorcycles due to weather and limited riding months. The other problem is how many total sales are there of Chinese motorcycles? I would like to see those numbers. Does the DMV release that type of information? Another factor is in the third-world, motorcycles are cheaper to own and purchase and used as a primary source of getting around - not so in the USA. Plus they are rode year-round. That may contribute to the lack the Chinese giving two whips about selling in the USA. They make more money selling Wal-marts crap and making iphones then selling motorcycles in the USA. It seems that the common themes on this thread are public perception of Chinese motorcycles and cost. Just because one person on a forum says they will buy a motorcycle does not mean the rest of the enthusiasts in the USA are going to spend the same money. One buyer does not equal 10,000 sales. If this was true Benelli and Genuine G400C would be selling more units then they current are. For exaple, consider a UJM-type motorcycle for $4,599 isn't that bad, but people are not find value in a 25hp UJM-style Chinese made motorcycle. If it said Honda, there wouldn't be a problem. Chinese are going to have to make models and motors which can achieve 70+mph without a problem if they are going to compete. That will require at least 35hp in an engine. Royal Enfield is doing things right. A good motorcycle for a great price. Less red tape at the factory level and a good business model. Higher quality and a good reputation. Plus mechanics will work on RE versus Chinese knock-offs. Someone was talking about Hyosung. I know of them and they have the same problem, parts, dealers, etc. The factory would have to spend significant amount of money to establish the brand and offer something consumers need, not just another bike. Something would have to stand out about it. I don't believe the Chinese will invest here in America (they only invest in porn, I wonder why?), becasue they can sell more motorcycles in South America, Africa and other third-world places and not have to deal with the American red tape b.s. Its a question of politics, regulations, and money. I don't see the Chinese comming here and making much more of a splash then they currently are. CSC is in a niche market and they are hanging in there selling their 250's, but how many can they hope to sell over the next ten years? If people have purchased their 2018, are those 2018's are going to start coming up broken and engine failures from bad bearings, cheaper parts etc. Then the question is that person could to purchase another Chinese bike? JANUS is even in a smaller niche. If in 10 ten years we are all still here, and haven't perished due to a war, and the motorcycle market magically increases back to 1 million sales a year again, then I could see maybe a move from them, but the sales numbers do not support the investment at this moment. Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the Chinese stuff, because I think it has come along way since the 2000's, and various brands and models are being proved in other countries which will add to their credibilty. I have owned two Chinese now (one was a 2000's piece of junk), and I am looking at getting another one. However, if we know that the life expectancy of a Japanses model is at least 10 years, while a Chinese is closer to two or three, that is one area for the Chinese marques to improve. Until then we have CSC and others to order from. __________________ On the radar: CSC - TT250 Moto Aventure ride 2020. "If everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is thinking." Gen. Patton. -2017 Suzuki SV650 -2015 BASHAN - STORM Current mods: LED headlight & tail light, LED fog light, JT 428-130 chain, 47t rear sprocket, 4-fuse box, oil-cooler, CSC TT205 hand controls, 32" handlebars, aftermarket 295mm rear shock, digital speedo & tach, USB/12 volt accessory; painted flat-black. -2005 Skyteam ST90 (sitting in pieces) -2003 Buell Blast - SOLD Last edited by Skyteamst90; 01-10-2020 at 04:23 PM. Reason: added remarks and spell correction.
	2

01-10-2020, 01:15 AM	#32
Emerikol Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Carrollton, GA Posts: 1,465	The one thing I've seen mentioned repeatedly in the thread is price-point. While that's true to a point (terrible word choice there), I think that the break-out will come when a distributor pairs with a reputable, mainstream finance company. Then the price-point will become a non-issue for most of the market. Think about it, you don't pay for college up front before your first class, same for a new car, house, or pretty much anything else that would be considered a big-ticket item. The reason Japanese motorcycles have rocketed up in price over the past ten to fifteen years is because the dealer network has paired with reputable, reliable, responsible financing companies. Not companies that charge 23.99% interest, but a reasonable interest rate for the transaction. Hell, even Harbor Freight is talking about coming out with their own store branded credit card. To tie this back in to the motorcycle purchase discussion, I could cruise on up to my local cycle shop tomorrow and buy a brand new Royal Enfield motorcycle. The price on it would be somewhere in the $5,000-$6,000 range, depending on what model I wanted. Rather than shell out that money in a single hit for the bike, I would seriously look at financing options because it makes more sense to buy the bike in small bites over time, rather than deplete savings or wherever else that money came from. This is again where the Japanese market has lost the thread. If I tried to save $5k in most income/job markets today, by the time I got the cash together, the price of the bike would be $7,200. It's a no-win game. Finding the right group of companies to provide financing would be a critical step to building a lasting presence in the American market. Hyosung (I actually had one way back when) didn't team up with distributors capable of offering financing at any better rates that title pawn companies, and that's why they spent a fortune getting almost zero market penetration in the end. Making the purchase affordable to the largest number of people is going to be what drives growth. __________________ First Rule of Aviation: -Never Pass Up The Opportunity to Pee I was struggling to get my wife's attention; I sat down on the couch and looked comfortable. That did the trick! My wife says I only have two faults. I don't listen and something else... If at first you don't succeed, try doing it the way I told you to... The Stable: 2005 Yamaha V-Star 650 - SOLD 2015 Suzuki DR 650 2015 RPS Hawk 250 - SOLD 2016 Ural Gear Up
	3

01-10-2020, 08:38 AM	#33
Sport Rider Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 2,044	Key word "tightwad". I resemble that remark!
	4

01-15-2020, 07:49 PM	#35
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Going 850 https://mbd.baidu.com/newspage/data/...appinstalled=0
	0

02-17-2020, 04:31 AM	#36
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/mIjPXmLE_P3LhRurkz1ZXA
	0