Mrs. 2LZ TT250. Into the Fire....

[simonjester]

Page 13 of the TT250 Owner's/Service Manual from CSC says:

"Use only non‐synthetic oils during the first 1000 miles of use. After that, you may wish to change to synthetic motorcycle oil."

I will follow that. I recommend others do too, but that is their choice.

[jimwildman]

definetly never add slick 50 to any engine until its properly broken in.

ive never heard that about synthetics though.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by simonjester

Page 13 of the TT250 Owner's/Service Manual from CSC says:

"Use only non‐synthetic oils during the first 1000 miles of use. After that, you may wish to change to synthetic motorcycle oil."

I will follow that. I recommend others do too, but that is their choice.

I've always broke in on the 15W-40 before moving to synthetic, just because. Habit I guess.

[darmst6829]

Originally Posted by Azhule

I'm still confused on what everyone's problem with Synthetic Oil is..

Azhulem I agree with your assertion that synthetic oil is generally not a problem, however my TT250 clutch made horrible noises and vibration when I put in synthetic oil. I have never had that problem with any other motorcycle using synthetic oil before.

[MadMonkey]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

I'm curious about this. In what way did they adversly respond to synthetic oils? The Hawk engine seems to thrive on synthetic oil, by all reports. Could be because a very small amount of oil is cooling and lubricating a larger engine. A dual-sport run on the highway gets pretty hot, running at or near redline all the while.

I have seen slipping clutch's and the oil will get into places its not meant to be because the particles are smaller in the synthetic oil. they can get past seals and cause oil leaks.

[mtiberio]

take it from a 62 year old guy that has been riding almost daily since 1973...

Synthetics when they first came out had some issues, and caused some problems which gave them a bad rep. 1) They lacked the seal swell properties of mineral oils, and caused some motors to leak oil that were otherwise fine with mineral oil. The makers of synthetics learned from this and added seal swellers. End of issue. 2) Some old motors that had a ton of sludge from running mineral oil and lack of oil changes, they had that sludge loosened up by the new synthetics, and this caused issues as well, that were attributed to the synthetics, when in reality it was due to poor maintenance and sh*t mineral oils, and the pre-existing condition of the motor. Lesson, don't switch to synthetic if you have an old abused motor you are dealing with, unless you give it a good thrashing with clean mineral oil first..

3rd item worth mentioning. Synthetics because they are so slippery, can cause issues during ring breakin. If the cylinders are not honed just so, the rings/cylinder interface can lack enough friction, and the rings can glaze and not bed in, causing lack of compression, oil burning, over heating etc. Manufacturers now hone cylinders with the proper grit hone and to the proper surface roughness so that rings will break in using synthetics. If you hone your own cylinder during a rebuild, or if you get your local billy bob machine shop to do the cylinder prep, you might want to use mineral oil during breakin. End of issue. Other things you can do, is to take care during breakin, do hard acceleration, together with throttle chops to seat the rings. If you end up with glazed rings, there is the old brit bike trick as a last resort, throw some bon-am-i (or comet) sink scrubbing powder down the spark plug hole (and start the motor) in an attempt to seat the rings. I would not do this however, I'd pull the cylinder and re-hone.

Me when I'm building a motor, especially one with a nikasil cylinder coating, I use just one drop of oil on the piston skirt during assembly. Assembling dry (or near dry) is a good way to ensure the rings seat.

Bottom line. If you use the sh*t chinese motor oil for a few hundred miles, and the rings seat, you will have no issue running synthetic. This is what I have done with mine. If you change the oil immediately on receiving your TT250, consider using mineral for the first interval, or if you use synthetic, pay attention to ring seating for the first 50 miles or so.

[2LZ]

I concur with mtiberio. Some of the early synths had their issues to straighten out, which they've done long ago.

The biggest difference between dino oil and synthetic (besides cost) is that the dino oil molecules are all different sizes. Picture a volley ball, next to a baseball, next to a soccer ball, next to a ping pong ball. This characteristic of the oil did help the damming effect in worn seals in worn motors.
Synthetic oil has cloned molecules. They're all the same size ball. If these molecules were wheels, which wheels would you rather have under your skateboard?

Bottom line is, run what you feel comfortable with. ALL oils are superior to what was offered back when I was in high school. If I have a choice, I usually run synth. If I don't have any at the time, I always have some dino 15W-40 in the shop. I'm not rigid on my choice and either will be fine.

[pcspecialist]

Originally Posted by jimwildman

definetly never add slick 50 to any engine until its properly broken in.

definetly never add slick 50 to any engine EVER! That crap will make your rings stick to the pistons, lowering compression and cause it to burn oil.

[ughmas]

I was just re-reading through your excellent thread in preparation of winter ending and Mod/Maintenance time beginning I would like to remove the SMOG stuff while I do the exhaust install as you did.. Just wondering what exactly you had to do aside from the block off plate.. was there anything else that needed to be fabbed? or just remove the canister and hoses?

Thanks!

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by mtiberio

take it from a 62 year old guy that has been riding almost daily since 1973...

Synthetics when they first came out had some issues, and caused some problems which gave them a bad rep. 1) They lacked the seal swell properties of mineral oils, and caused some motors to leak oil that were otherwise fine with mineral oil. The makers of synthetics learned from this and added seal swellers. End of issue. 2) Some old motors that had a ton of sludge from running mineral oil and lack of oil changes, they had that sludge loosened up by the new synthetics, and this caused issues as well, that were attributed to the synthetics, when in reality it was due to poor maintenance and sh*t mineral oils, and the pre-existing condition of the motor. Lesson, don't switch to synthetic if you have an old abused motor you are dealing with, unless you give it a good thrashing with clean mineral oil first..

3rd item worth mentioning. Synthetics because they are so slippery, can cause issues during ring breakin. If the cylinders are not honed just so, the rings/cylinder interface can lack enough friction, and the rings can glaze and not bed in, causing lack of compression, oil burning, over heating etc. Manufacturers now hone cylinders with the proper grit hone and to the proper surface roughness so that rings will break in using synthetics. If you hone your own cylinder during a rebuild, or if you get your local billy bob machine shop to do the cylinder prep, you might want to use mineral oil during breakin. End of issue. Other things you can do, is to take care during breakin, do hard acceleration, together with throttle chops to seat the rings. If you end up with glazed rings, there is the old brit bike trick as a last resort, throw some bon-am-i (or comet) sink scrubbing powder down the spark plug hole (and start the motor) in an attempt to seat the rings. I would not do this however, I'd pull the cylinder and re-hone.

Me when I'm building a motor, especially one with a nikasil cylinder coating, I use just one drop of oil on the piston skirt during assembly. Assembling dry (or near dry) is a good way to ensure the rings seat.

Bottom line. If you use the sh*t chinese motor oil for a few hundred miles, and the rings seat, you will have no issue running synthetic. This is what I have done with mine. If you change the oil immediately on receiving your TT250, consider using mineral for the first interval, or if you use synthetic, pay attention to ring seating for the first 50 miles or so.

On the Bon-Ami subject, we used to get the engine running, then trickle a half a teaspoon of Bon-Ami in front of the carburetor throat, letting the engine suck it in. Usually seats rings in no time.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by ughmas

I was just re-reading through your excellent thread in preparation of winter ending and Mod/Maintenance time beginning I would like to remove the SMOG stuff while I do the exhaust install as you did.. Just wondering what exactly you had to do aside from the block off plate.. was there anything else that needed to be fabbed? or just remove the canister and hoses?

Thanks!

Hey ughmas! Thanks for asking. I thought this thread may be lost to eternity.

Other than the block off plate for the head, there's a port to plug coming out from under the gas tank that used to go to the purge canister, and a port to plug off on the intake manifold.
It's been a while but I think that's it.

[JerryHawk250]

Don't know how I missed the thread but great write up and lots of pictures.

[sshevie]

Originally Posted by motorcyclelove

Why spend the extra 1k for a TT if you got to do all this??? I just don't get why people just don't buy a hawk and then mod it up? So far the CSC TT hasn't impressed me at all. If I'm going to spend another grand, I shouldn't have to loktight everything, change the factory oil, mess with valves, or worry about anything but basic maintenance for a while. The time and $ spent into all this sh*t onto and already $2400 bike is ridiculous. Save it and just buy a used Honda

Why bother taking a photo or painting a picture when you can just buy them at km art?
I personaly look a china bikes as blank canvases you buy it then with the money you saved paint it how you like.

[jdiggyd]

I been looking within this thread, using it as a reference, and the pictures that went along with the posts are missing. Is it just me(viewing it through a mobile device) or are they no longer available?

[Weldangrind]

I can't see pics either, and that's with a PC. Perhaps it's a Photobucket problem.