Tao Tao 150 Bull (150D) - Page 2

Weldangrind · 12-27-2015, 03:35 PM

When I first sorted out my Beast (a 200cc pushrod motored four speed plus reverse), I wanted to dump the stock shocks before ever riding it. They were more like pogo sticks.

I cycled the wheel up and down without the shock in place, and determined the range that would work without bumpsteer, and I then welded in new upper shock mounts. They were considerably higher than the stock position, to accommodate the Yamaha Raptor shocks I bought on eBay. In retrospect, Yamaha Blaster shocks would have been easier.

I was able to make the suspension work in a range that did not introduce bumpsteer. It was a fair amount of work, but it was worth it.

Forgive me if I'm failing to understand; have you tried all four possible positions of the tie rod? Perhaps there is a solution for you that will minimize (if not eliminate) bumpsteer.

JDGnut · 12-27-2015, 05:22 PM

I'll agree the shock points will probably end up being moved.. When we chnage to a different shock.. Thanks for the suggestions on the shocks..

On the tie rods, I haven't tried moving both the inner and outer to the lower side. If it will clear the A arm it will change the angle of the tie rod by about 3/8 in, which would help a little.. Cutting the mount off or making a new mount on the steering shaft about 1 1/2 inches higher would be the best solution.
My goal is to get the angle of the tie rods to match the angle of the A arms..

JDGnut · 12-28-2015, 02:56 AM

So this was tonight's project. And pretty happy with the turn out..

Bump Steer.
I flipped the right and left spindles. I was able to keep the brakes on the correct side, keeping the braking linkage on the top. I flipped them to get a different angle on the tie rod to try to get the angle to match the A arms.
The down side is that it dropped the front of the ATV about 1 inch.

There is a warning to watch out for.. If you have the shocks in the upper mount or longer shocks, there is a good chance it will break the stock steering ball joints on the tie rods. When you remove the shock the A arm will only drop about 1/4-3/8 inch before the tie rod ball joint is at its max angle. (I might look into after market ball joints.)

The difference in the axle location, and the mount for the tie rod. On the Right is the Right spindle. On the left is the left side spindle, mounted upside down on the right side.

The minor amount of grinding need to keep the backing plates on the correct side. You could probably flip them and keep them with the correct spindle, but it would put the brake lever on the bottom side of the spindle. (and I didn't want that.)

Just a little grinding on the top and bottom corner to get it to fit.

The backing plate is rotated towards the front just a little from stock.

Results..

This is with the shock removed, so it has a little more travel than normal. The steering tie rod ball joint is maxed out.

This is pretty hard to tell what's going on, but I'm sitting on the front rack, and forcing it down, and then letting off. It hard to really see the movement, but there really isn't much. I'll try to get a better video tomorrow.

I'm ready to give it a try..

2LZ · 12-28-2015, 10:22 AM

Outstanding! Looking forward to the results.

Weldangrind · 12-28-2015, 11:48 AM

Awesome! I can see where flipping the spindles created drop spindles. The length of the shocks seem to be compensating somewhat. How long are the existing shocks?

JDGnut · 12-29-2015, 01:15 AM

The stock shocks are about 14 1/2 inch center to center. We'll run them for now.. But open to suggestions..

Weldangrind · 12-29-2015, 11:49 AM

That's pretty long. IIRC, the Yamaha Blaster shocks are around 13". Perhaps they would be a better fit.

2LZ · 12-29-2015, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDGnut

The stock shocks are about 14 1/2 inch center to center. We'll run them for now.. But open to suggestions..

Not sure about yours but my front shocks are pogo sticks, straight out of the box. Zero dampening. At least the rear shock dampens a little when I bounce on the rear rack.

In all honesty, I'm not real concerned about bumpsteer or the shock performance. My Rhino will be used as a 'property grunt' hauling and dragging things around. Not really any speedy trail riding or serious recreation. It will most likely live in first gear most of its life. It'll be nice to have your fixes documented though. Nice work!

JDGnut · 12-29-2015, 03:57 PM

We just rode for about 30 mins.. And it's a major improvement.. You feel more in control.. And we're not running very fast.. Even the 9 yr old said it was easier to drive.. The little 135DU isn't as bad but does it also..

I really think it's the caster angle of the spindle that gives it the odd feeling.. But this helped.

I agree on the shocks.. They stiff as a board.. But will still roll into a turn..

The 13 in shocks would probably work by just moving back to the inner mounts on the lower A arm..

Tonyrader · 01-30-2016, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

When I first sorted out my Beast (a 200cc pushrod motored four speed plus reverse), I wanted to dump the stock shocks before ever riding it. They were more like pogo sticks.

I cycled the wheel up and down without the shock in place, and determined the range that would work without bumpsteer, and I then welded in new upper shock mounts. They were considerably higher than the stock position, to accommodate the Yamaha Raptor shocks I bought on eBay. In retrospect, Yamaha Blaster shocks would have been easier.

I was able to make the suspension work in a range that did not introduce bumpsteer. It was a fair amount of work, but it was worth it.

Forgive me if I'm failing to understand; have you tried all four possible positions of the tie rod? Perhaps there is a solution for you that will minimize (if not eliminate) bumpsteer.

I had the bumpsteer so bad on my 250 that it would rip the handle bars out of your hand, Mine and my Dads where mindbending they would mess you up soooooo fast.. we toed ours in about 4mm total from center. 2mm each side.. we have put miles on them no problem. BUT THEY where toed out bad from dealer..

2LZ · 02-01-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrader

I had the bumpsteer so bad on my 250 that it would rip the handle bars out of your hand, Mine and my Dads where mindbending they would mess you up soooooo fast.. we toed ours in about 4mm total from center. 2mm each side.. we have put miles on them no problem. BUT THEY where toed out bad from dealer..

Good call. Mine showed up out of the crate positively toed. I pidgeon-toed them a bit and it seems to be ok for what I use it for....

ckangaroo70 · 02-02-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDGnut

The shocks wont fit in the outer set of holes on the bottom.. the shock/strut hits the inner mount.. I've been looking to see if I can change the top mount.. would require welding in new brackets..

I have a set of aftermarket front shocks mounted on front of my Coolster 150. They have a smaller connecting point at the base of the shock...so perhaps something like these might work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-5-320mm-S...item1a01f2bbd3

You can see the shocks I have mounted in this youtube vid of mine.

Weldangrind · 02-03-2016, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckangaroo70

I have a set of aftermarket front shocks mounted on front of my Coolster 150.

Welcome!

Thanks for sharing the vid with us. I love our little 150cc quad, and I find it to be very capable. I've never taken it hunting, but I've certainly ridden on some challenging terrain with it.

I also punished it by towing a Jr. dragster (with driver) back to the pits in the high desert heat, while riding two-up. It never quit.

12-27-2015, 03:35 PM	#16
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	When I first sorted out my Beast (a 200cc pushrod motored four speed plus reverse), I wanted to dump the stock shocks before ever riding it. They were more like pogo sticks. I cycled the wheel up and down without the shock in place, and determined the range that would work without bumpsteer, and I then welded in new upper shock mounts. They were considerably higher than the stock position, to accommodate the Yamaha Raptor shocks I bought on eBay. In retrospect, Yamaha Blaster shocks would have been easier. I was able to make the suspension work in a range that did not introduce bumpsteer. It was a fair amount of work, but it was worth it. Forgive me if I'm failing to understand; have you tried all four possible positions of the tie rod? Perhaps there is a solution for you that will minimize (if not eliminate) bumpsteer. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

12-28-2015, 10:22 AM	#19
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,092	Outstanding! Looking forward to the results. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	0

12-28-2015, 11:48 AM	#20
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Awesome! I can see where flipping the spindles created drop spindles. The length of the shocks seem to be compensating somewhat. How long are the existing shocks? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

12-29-2015, 11:49 AM	#22
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	That's pretty long. IIRC, the Yamaha Blaster shocks are around 13". Perhaps they would be a better fit. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

12-27-2015, 05:22 PM	#17
JDGnut Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 32	I'll agree the shock points will probably end up being moved.. When we chnage to a different shock.. Thanks for the suggestions on the shocks.. On the tie rods, I haven't tried moving both the inner and outer to the lower side. If it will clear the A arm it will change the angle of the tie rod by about 3/8 in, which would help a little.. Cutting the mount off or making a new mount on the steering shaft about 1 1/2 inches higher would be the best solution. My goal is to get the angle of the tie rods to match the angle of the A arms..
	0

12-28-2015, 02:56 AM	#18
JDGnut Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 32	So this was tonight's project. And pretty happy with the turn out.. Bump Steer. I flipped the right and left spindles. I was able to keep the brakes on the correct side, keeping the braking linkage on the top. I flipped them to get a different angle on the tie rod to try to get the angle to match the A arms. The down side is that it dropped the front of the ATV about 1 inch. There is a warning to watch out for.. If you have the shocks in the upper mount or longer shocks, there is a good chance it will break the stock steering ball joints on the tie rods. When you remove the shock the A arm will only drop about 1/4-3/8 inch before the tie rod ball joint is at its max angle. (I might look into after market ball joints.) The difference in the axle location, and the mount for the tie rod. On the Right is the Right spindle. On the left is the left side spindle, mounted upside down on the right side. The minor amount of grinding need to keep the backing plates on the correct side. You could probably flip them and keep them with the correct spindle, but it would put the brake lever on the bottom side of the spindle. (and I didn't want that.) Just a little grinding on the top and bottom corner to get it to fit. The backing plate is rotated towards the front just a little from stock. Results.. This is with the shock removed, so it has a little more travel than normal. The steering tie rod ball joint is maxed out. This is pretty hard to tell what's going on, but I'm sitting on the front rack, and forcing it down, and then letting off. It hard to really see the movement, but there really isn't much. I'll try to get a better video tomorrow. I'm ready to give it a try..
	0

12-29-2015, 01:15 AM	#21
JDGnut Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 32	The stock shocks are about 14 1/2 inch center to center. We'll run them for now.. But open to suggestions..
	0

12-29-2015, 03:57 PM	#24
JDGnut Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 32	We just rode for about 30 mins.. And it's a major improvement.. You feel more in control.. And we're not running very fast.. Even the 9 yr old said it was easier to drive.. The little 135DU isn't as bad but does it also.. I really think it's the caster angle of the spindle that gives it the odd feeling.. But this helped. I agree on the shocks.. They stiff as a board.. But will still roll into a turn.. The 13 in shocks would probably work by just moving back to the inner mounts on the lower A arm..
	0