"Will" 200cc vs. Honda CRF230L

[Louis Angel]

Just thought I would do a comparison of my ownership of the two
bikes while the memory of the WILL200 is still fresh in my mind.
Having ridden many times now over the exact same roads on both
bikes, I can give a good solid comparison of the two.
Power: Honda. Bigger engine, more power.
Transmission: WILL200. The Will was much smoother shifting and
even though it had only 5 gears to the Hondas 6, they
were "just right" for the power the bike had up to 50 MPH.
Seat: DRAW. Neither one is great, nor horrid.
Suspension: This is subjective. If you like a softer ride, as I do, the
WILL200 gets the vote. Having that been said, it was a bit
too soft at times in the hard corners.
Handling: Honda. No doubt about it. The Honda handles like it is on rails.
The WILL200 FELT bulkier / heavier in the corners and at
slow speed. Not near as responsive.
Fuel economy: Although having a larger motor, at this point in time, the
CRF230L is averaging 85 MPG. That is SCOOTER worthy!
The will stayed about 65.
I think this is due in part to the fact that I was always running
the WILL200 at or right near wide open throttle.
Lighting: WILL200. The will had LED turn & tail light, and when the stupid
thing was not constantly blowing the bulb, had a better headlight.
Exhaust: WILL200. The WILL had a deeper more aggressive exhaust.
So much so that in fact it sounded GOOD. Much like a expensive aftermarket muffler. The Honda CRF230 is just flat out quiet!
That can be both good and bad.
Value: Believe it or not, the WILL/Bashan is a better value. Mainly
because they don't cost squat to buy to begin with! You can buy like 4 of them for the price of one new CRF250L, or 2 of them for the price of a late model low mile used CRF230L. So much that I was going to sell my V-Star and had already started looking up another WILL, this time with the 250 motor in it. But the wife, , , , , , , , , , , , would have shot me dead on the spot. She is a Honda girl, even though she does not ride anything larger than a scooter.

Honda CRF230L ............ Lancer/WILL/Bashan 200
Engine CC 223cc ............ 200cc

Horsepower 14.3 ............ 15.5
** this is converting the 11.5Kw from Motobuys website. Real world results
on the bike I had would STYRONGY disagree with that test. I have no proof, but would say that the 200cc WILL is more like 11.5 HP

DRY weight 261 Lbs ............ 265 Lbs.

Wheel base: 52.9" ............ 54"

Seat height: 32.1" ............ 29.1"

Top Speed: 72 on flat ground ............ 61 down a 3% grade

Honda Price (new/used avg) $4495/$2750
WILL200 Price $1,449 delivered /Used no data to support

" that's about all I have to say about that" ---- Gump

[Louis Angel]

That SOOOOOOOOOO did not post looking anything like the neat little format I had it in when I was writing it. :-/ grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[culcune]

Interesting comparison--thanks for posting

I have been commuting on my TMEC 200 for over 2 years straight, year round--33 miles per day, roundtrip there and back.

I can say, without commuting on anything else for a few years (I rode a Honda Ascot for about a year a few miles further each day--45 miles exactly when I worked a different job), that anything else will probably be a better bike. However, I do appreciate the value of Chinese bikes over mainstream bikes simply from the initial cost.

I would like to buy a few Chinese budget bikes at once and switch off riding them. For instance, I would like to buy a new TMEC since the one I bought in May '14 was involved in an accident last October when an SUV ran me off the road (I had the right of way). It was not terribly damaged, but enough that I would like a new one. Perhaps one of the 229cc Roketa/Lance/Bashan/whatever else they come in bikes would be a good second bike--I had wanted a Hensim dual sport when they were briefly offered here, and one of these models is the actual Hensim once again offered here. A 150cc TaoTao in BWS (the one that looks like the Euro-spec Yamaha Zuma with the dual headlights) form would round out my third budget bike. I would like to own one of the SSR 250 enduros with the fat tires, but the cost of one is $3k, which not only is NOT a budget bike, but is too close to the Zongshen RX3 in price. So, unless the settlement offer is huge (I have not been offered a settlement close to a year from my accident), I will probably buy another TMEC since I know the bike quite well, and I would like to have one that has not been in an accident! While the 229 bikes seem to be tempting, the little 'issues' vs. the reliability I have seen out of the box from my TMEC are steering me that way once again.

The only difference from the get-go? Have a 44 tooth sprocket custom made vs. the aftermarket 48 tooth I bought (stock is 56 tooth, and while the 48 improved on that, I know a 44 would make the 50 mph and 55 mph sections of my commute less peaky). The 48 tooth is the smallest aftermarket sprocket available for the odd-ball rear hub the TMEC uses.

[andyj812]

Great comparison, I agree with you on most point except the headlight. My Will 250 although the bulb never blue out was very inadequate. I made alterations so that I could get it aimed/aligned just right and is still left me wishing I had night vision googles. I actually put led fog lights on it which helped out a lot. I put a LED headlight on it the day before I traded it in but never got to test it out. the CRF250l's headlight is great, I don't have to use the high beam until I get 5 miles from my house. That is a hilly and curvy country road the trees overhang. The just repaved it and haven't painted any lines on it.


Other then the headlight though I agree. The transmission in Will was a lot smoother and forgiving. I'm heavy at 220 and doubt I could get to 62 without a grade steeper then 3%. It would run 57 all day long on flat grade without being wide open but still wouldn't go much faster at WOT

Great job on the comparison

[Louis Angel]

Yes thank you both.

Andy, I am betting your "disagree" on the headlight is true to form
as I noticed the new CRF250 like yours looked MUCH brighter in the showroom than the one on my older CRF230.

One thing that I actually found laughable. WHY in the tom thumb
did Honda not just put the exact same motor that is in the CB300/CBR300R
in the CRF this time around!!!! Would have been 28X cc of displacement
and could have ran up 5% inclines at 70 MPH then!!!! and they already had
the motor! LOL

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the interesting, honest appraisal of your experience with these two motorcycles.

[andyj812]

Originally Posted by Louis Angel

Yes thank you both.

Andy, I am betting your "disagree" on the headlight is true to form
as I noticed the new CRF250 like yours looked MUCH brighter in the showroom than the one on my older CRF230.

One thing that I actually found laughable. WHY in the tom thumb
did Honda not just put the exact same motor that is in the CB300/CBR300R
in the CRF this time around!!!! Would have been 28X cc of displacement
and could have ran up 5% inclines at 70 MPH then!!!! and they already had
the motor! LOL

That's a good I question, I assume because its cheaper just to leave it the way it is until it is. the 250 had plenty of power for me and actually I have no complaints other than I wish the transmission was a little more like "Will
's". Then again as far a dualsports go, Will is all I have to compare it to.

[jjn]

So, two of you had "will's" One, a 250 (229?), and the other a 200. I see the 250 for sale here:

https://www.powerrideoutlet.com/dirt...itional_tabbed

They are showing the seat height at 28.75", which is much lower than some of the other bikes here such as the Hawk (34.5??). I"m about 5'9". How tall are you guys? Also, the specs area at the above website, under the headings front tire, rear tire, and tire size, says "No". Can you tell me what the front tire size is on these?

I'm still trying to read about these "Will" models. Why did you both get rid of yours? Did either of you try to do a sprocket change? If so, did you have trouble finding sprockets to fit?

Pardon my questions, but I want to order a China bike soon, and there isn't a lot of information about these.

[jjn]

I should mention that, here on Hawaii's big island, a new Honda CRL250F would run at least $5200 out the door. A new Suzuki TU250 is $5200 out the door. A leftover new few years old S40 runs $5250 out the door.

[Louis Angel]

Well, to be honest Jon, I got rid of mine because I got wooed <sp?>
over a new 2015 Honda CB300F. And I was having issues with the headlight
on mine constantly blowing. And, true, it did it's best to pull ANY kind of hill
at anything above 50 MPH. When I purchased the WILL200, there are some
posts on here about me wanting to change the rear sprocket for more speed.
The front was already a 17T from the factory, but the rear was a huge pie pan
something to the effect of 56T, IIRC.
HOWEVER! Before I even ordered the rear sprocket, I realized
since I did not have enough horsepower to pull any sort of hill at a true
55 MPH, there was NO WAY it would pull any smaller rear sprocket to go faster. It was not so much an RPM issue as a lack of power issue. ( I used the Trail Tech digital aftermarket speedometer for true speed readings )
As far as seat height, regardless of your height seat height should not
be much of an issue. It is all about the mounting technique.
This is a VERRRRRYYYYYY good video on how to handle / mount / dismount a tall bike.
.
.
Clicky thingy -->
.
.

Before I seen this video, I refused to hop onto the new 2015 Honda CRF250 in the showroom. In truth, it's height intimidated me! LOL
BUT, after I seen this vid, I practiced it some on my WILL200 -- even though on that bike is was not necessary to mount it in that fashion-- and when I went to the Honda dealer I climbed over onto the CRF250 like a pro. :-D
I am 5' 10" small build with 30" inseam.

Now, having all above been said Jon, just a personal opinion through feedback from other members here, I would instead look strongly into the
HAWK 250. If it were me. Just my $0.02.

[andyj812]

My Will 250 was a great bike, I traded it in because while at the Honda dealership to buy a jet for the carb, they made me a trade in offer i couldn't refuse. (My wife wasn't with me or I would have refused it lol she is still not happy) The only real complaint I have about the will was the 58 mph top speed. I live in Indiana and commute 42 miles to Cincinnati. To ride Will to work was all back roads and that would make it a 2 hour trip each way. The only problem I had with Will was a miss at stutter at a certain rpm band and Mikuni carb swap fixed that. I did change the sprockets out, it comes stock with a 17t-56t setup. First I tried 17-44t but the was to much (I'm 6'2" and weigh 230lbs.) with the 44t I could actually go faster (still around 58 mph by gps) in 4th gear and lost speed in 5th gear. I then when to a 50t rear sprocket and this worked out well but still a top speed of 58mph gps. The bike is taller than 28" around 31 if I remember right. It did not feel to small to me. The headlight was not bright enough for back road travel at night on it and I switched over to a brighter led head lights and added some fog lights the day before I traded it in. I didn't get to test the led headlghts. The Will 250 has a very smooth running counter balanced engine with very little vibration. The transmission in the thing is awesome and very forgiving should you accelerate in the wrong gear. The valves are very easy to adjust but requires removing the gas tank and side covers. Will doesn't come with a rack but I made on out of some conduit and angle iron for less than $15. The suspension seemed a little soft but didn't dive when stopping hard.

Here is the thread i started when i first ordered the bike: http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=14256

[jjn]

I am probably going to order a Hawk, but saw these and wanted to find out more. How did you come up with the rear sprocket? That's one thing good about the Hawk, is that front and rear sprockets are easily available, as they are the same as some Honda models. A gent that calls himself blueberry bought the other 200cc Bashon non counterbalanced model. He couldn't find a rear sprocket that would bolt right onto his bike, and had to modify one to fit.

Here is a place that sells the 250 like yours:

https://www.powerrideoutlet.com/dirt...itional_tabbed

These specs say the seat height is 28.75", which seems pretty low for a dual sport. There they show the bike in green and blue also, and these are really good looking motorcycles in my opinion. I am going to try to find more threads on these, as I don't see a lot about them.

Note: This seller is out of the 250cc Will at this time.