General tips needed - Page 5

Influencer88 · 06-25-2011, 11:22 PM

Well good news. My gasket kit arrived today. +1 for motopartsmax.

In other news, a bill was passed to force postal workers back to work, it goes to senate now. If all goes well there maybe mail will start moving soon!

Weldangrind · 06-26-2011, 02:21 AM

I think you're following the Canadian postal situation more closely than I am. I sure hope your package arrives soon.

Influencer88 · 06-26-2011, 02:25 AM

I very well might be. What can I say, its so close to being done. Tomorrow I'm going to try and find a circlip so I can getthe rebuild started.

That way, when the package does arrive all ill have left is the valve spring and timing set.

Influencer88 · 06-26-2011, 07:20 PM

Alright, well it failed trying to find a circlip. I keep forgetting how dead it is around here on sundays.

So instead I looked over the ignition system. Checked the CDI, it is a AC fired system so I don't actually NEED to fix the ignition system or put a battery in, kick start will do fine. That being said, I want to fix it so I don't have to kick start all the time, call it lazy, I call it taking full advantage of technology.

So in order to fix this, I need some additional knowledge from the chinariders experts.

First off, does the starter switch carry any real amperage, or does it just act as remote switch for the starter relay? IE, carries very little power at all, the switch is normally open and when pressed completes the circuit sending the small power signal to the starter relay, which then completes the ignition circuit to the starter motor?

Second, the green plug with two male leads in it(coming off the engine), what does it plug into, I don't seem to see anywhere on the wiring harness that it is for.

Will disabling the neutral safety switch hurt the bikes performance in any way? I know some it will mess up the CDI mapping.

Here is a short list of whats left before the bike is ready to go:

Starter relay switch
Valve Springs( On the way)
Circlip (On the way)
Starter switch
Brake Line(can live without for a while)
Spark Plug Boot(amazingly hard to find for some reason)

Weldangrind · 06-29-2011, 10:25 AM

I got mail delievered yesterday, so your shipment should be moving soon.

Influencer88 · 06-29-2011, 04:12 PM

That's good news!

Other good news: I got the ignition/starting system operational. Got a selanoid off a old lawnmower and wired it up. Also picked up a push button for a starter switch. Mounted it on the plastics near the tank. Wired everything up and hooked it to a battery charger, everything works great. All the safety features are intact as well.

So all that's left is what's in the package and figuring out where the battery goes and how I can mount it.

EDIT: Well the piston rings won't work because apparently the stock piston for the db-27a is a 63.5mm, oops on my part. it looks as if maybe the top end was swapped out for a xr200r's. Now I get to order another set!

Weldangrind · 06-30-2011, 09:59 AM

You'd know if it was genuine Honda stuff, because the Honda piston is a very nicely machined piece. It'll also say HM somewhere on it, likely on the underside.

When I last rebuilt an XR200R, I got lucky enough to find a Wiseco piston and rings on CL for $40.00. It's a little boost in compression over the stocker.

Influencer88 · 06-30-2011, 10:05 AM

There's no telling with this thing. The Carb is smaller than what comes on the db27a. The piston is larger. I'm thinking its a Frankenstein.

Influencer88 · 07-01-2011, 10:45 AM

The parts came today. Amazing how fast things move when the post office is working! I didn't expect them to make it that fast, I figured they would get here at the beginning of the week when my other stuff shows up. Not complaining though. Now to find a babysitter so I can get this thing together.

Once its running I will probably get a mikuni Carb, seen alot of good reviews.

Weldangrind · 07-01-2011, 11:26 AM

Glad to hear that the parts finally arrived!

You won't regret a 30mm Mikuni.

Influencer88 · 07-01-2011, 11:33 AM

Just doing a little final prep now. Then hopefully ill be able to dig in

EDIT: The circlip was too small, trying to track one down at a local shop. Hopefully I'll find one,

EDIT 2: Found a circlip, my buddy at the honda shop came through! A whopping 82 cents apiece! Now fighting to get everything together. With the tensioner all the way out it seems like the cam chain is still too small...any tricks?

Influencer88 · 07-01-2011, 08:40 PM

Ok, so ran into pretty much nothing but problems today.

Got the circlip through a buddy of mine, its a 16mm circlip, not a 15 like what is found in the xr200r. Guess I could have measured the one I had to find that out, but I guess you live and learn.

Got everything ready to assemble, did a dry fit, the cam chain wasn't long enough to even begin to go around the sprocket. WTF?! So I take it apart, and look into it, the chain was caught on a guide that the tensioners go into, so that was a easy fix.

Started to put the gaskets on, noticed it was a tight fit, then started actually paying attention and noticed the opening in the gasket for the cylinder was wayyyy too small. Wrong gasket set! Its the one I ordered, so why isn't it fitting? The Roketa 200cc calls for a 63.5 mm piston, mine is a 66.5, hmm, guess I should have paid attention to that instead of blindly ordering the part that is suppose to fit this bike.

Now I can't figure this thing out, the engine number located on the frame says its a 66.5mm piston, the engine number on the engine itself says its a 63.5. So the top end seems to be the one for this frame, the bottom end doesn't. But the top end also says its a 200cc, everything I can find on the DB-27a calls for a 63.5 piston. I don't know WHAT happened there, but oh well. Worse comes to worse, I should have more power than what I thought.

So to fix the gasket issue, rather than order a new set(the company I went through doesn't accept returns unless they sent the wrong part, I ordered what they sent, so thats on me, *pisses on a $20 bill*)

I went to the local auto parts store and bought a roll of gasket material, and set out to make my own gaskets. 2 hours later, two not so pretty but functional gaskets are born. Note to everyone, if your going to be doing precision cutting on felt gasket material, use a GOOD Hobby knife set, not a cheap one picked up for $3 because you only need it for one thing.

After much frustration, I now have everything prepared, including some High Temp RTV gasket maker to insure a good seal, as well as for the valve cover.

In between all this I took the carb apart to make sure everything was clean, it now looks like its out of the box new, went ahead and set the clip to the very last notch in anticipation of it running lean.

Unfortunately, I'm most likely out of time today to do anything to it. So its prepared to be assembled, but I probably won't get to it until Sunday. I MIGHT be able to get out there later tonight once the little ones go to sleep, but its doubtful. :(

On another note, found the spark plug boot I've been looking for, so atleast everything on the bike is ready to accept the engine and (hopefully) ride off into the sunset.

All in all, helluva day!

Weldangrind · 07-01-2011, 11:30 PM

Bummer on several counts.

I'm interested to learn how well the custom gaskets work. I've always gravitated towards OEM style head gaskets, because it's such a pain to pull everything apart again.

Influencer88 · 07-02-2011, 12:23 AM

They should work as good. Same thickness and material. And I can make it cover more of the head so it should seal better. But as a safeguard I used gasket dressing too.

EDIT: everything is put together. Missing a couple bolts but they aren't viral. One from the crankshaft bolt cover ( there are suppose to be 4) and one of the secondary valve coverbolts. Will pick up replacements tomorrow. Won't be chrome headed but will work.

Compression seems to be alright, from me turning the kickstart over by hand and having my thumb over the sparkplug opening. Still need to install the starter and get the engine mounted. Hopefully will face some time tomorrow.

EDIT 2: Thinking maybe it was just because I was holding the motor upright, holding my thumb over the spark plug opening, and trying to turn it over....

Got everything together, installed in frame. Getting Spark, getting gas, getting nothing else, :( .

Going to do a compression test tomorrow after I adjust the valves. Didn't even think to adjust them before, DOH! Thats what I get for assembling a motor at 1:00 am after a long day of work. That and I've been out of the wrenching game for too long, missing little things that I know better than to miss.

Influencer88 · 07-03-2011, 11:40 PM

She RUNS!!!!!

Had to remove the engine again, the valve retainers weren't seating good so I wasn't getting enough compression. Took care of that, adjusted the valves(before I put the engine in this time) and then put the engine back in. Went to kick start it(starter isn't working up to par, but thats an issue with me trying to start it off of a battery charger, not enough juice!), kick start lever just spun around, looked at it, no bolt...hmm... slid it off, there was a bolt, or atleast half of one.

Drilled the bolt out, tapped it, put a new bolt in, went to start it again, no go, forgot to turn the gas on,

. Turned gas on, checked everything else, all systems go, pushed kick start halfway down until I felt resistance, let it up, gave it a good hefty kick, and she fired right up.

Doesn't idle worth a damn, but no air box and no exhaust will do that. But a gentle rev and she revved up good.

On the agenda now:

Fix throttle, doesn't want to come back after giving it throttle, spring feels fine, I think its just a sticky carb.

Build battery box, install battery and connect.

Figure out how the hell the clutch lever is suppose to connect to the clutch

Install Exhaust and Intake

Cut chain and install

Build a front sprocket cover, will most likely be a completely ugly piece of sheet metal bent to clear sprocket.

Ride into the sunset!

06-26-2011, 02:21 AM	#62
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I think you're following the Canadian postal situation more closely than I am. I sure hope your package arrives soon. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

06-29-2011, 10:25 AM	#65
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I got mail delievered yesterday, so your shipment should be moving soon. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

06-30-2011, 09:59 AM	#67
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	You'd know if it was genuine Honda stuff, because the Honda piston is a very nicely machined piece. It'll also say HM somewhere on it, likely on the underside. When I last rebuilt an XR200R, I got lucky enough to find a Wiseco piston and rings on CL for $40.00. It's a little boost in compression over the stocker. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

07-01-2011, 11:26 AM	#70
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Glad to hear that the parts finally arrived! You won't regret a 30mm Mikuni. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

07-01-2011, 11:30 PM	#73
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Bummer on several counts. I'm interested to learn how well the custom gaskets work. I've always gravitated towards OEM style head gaskets, because it's such a pain to pull everything apart again. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

06-25-2011, 11:22 PM	#61
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	Well good news. My gasket kit arrived today. +1 for motopartsmax. In other news, a bill was passed to force postal workers back to work, it goes to senate now. If all goes well there maybe mail will start moving soon!
	0

06-26-2011, 02:25 AM	#63
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	I very well might be. What can I say, its so close to being done. Tomorrow I'm going to try and find a circlip so I can getthe rebuild started. That way, when the package does arrive all ill have left is the valve spring and timing set.
	0

06-26-2011, 07:20 PM	#64
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	Alright, well it failed trying to find a circlip. I keep forgetting how dead it is around here on sundays. So instead I looked over the ignition system. Checked the CDI, it is a AC fired system so I don't actually NEED to fix the ignition system or put a battery in, kick start will do fine. That being said, I want to fix it so I don't have to kick start all the time, call it lazy, I call it taking full advantage of technology. So in order to fix this, I need some additional knowledge from the chinariders experts. First off, does the starter switch carry any real amperage, or does it just act as remote switch for the starter relay? IE, carries very little power at all, the switch is normally open and when pressed completes the circuit sending the small power signal to the starter relay, which then completes the ignition circuit to the starter motor? Second, the green plug with two male leads in it(coming off the engine), what does it plug into, I don't seem to see anywhere on the wiring harness that it is for. Will disabling the neutral safety switch hurt the bikes performance in any way? I know some it will mess up the CDI mapping. Here is a short list of whats left before the bike is ready to go: Starter relay switch Valve Springs( On the way) Circlip (On the way) Starter switch Brake Line(can live without for a while) Spark Plug Boot(amazingly hard to find for some reason)
	0

06-29-2011, 04:12 PM	#66
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	That's good news! Other good news: I got the ignition/starting system operational. Got a selanoid off a old lawnmower and wired it up. Also picked up a push button for a starter switch. Mounted it on the plastics near the tank. Wired everything up and hooked it to a battery charger, everything works great. All the safety features are intact as well. So all that's left is what's in the package and figuring out where the battery goes and how I can mount it. EDIT: Well the piston rings won't work because apparently the stock piston for the db-27a is a 63.5mm, oops on my part. it looks as if maybe the top end was swapped out for a xr200r's. Now I get to order another set!
	0

06-30-2011, 10:05 AM	#68
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	There's no telling with this thing. The Carb is smaller than what comes on the db27a. The piston is larger. I'm thinking its a Frankenstein.
	0

07-01-2011, 10:45 AM	#69
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	The parts came today. Amazing how fast things move when the post office is working! I didn't expect them to make it that fast, I figured they would get here at the beginning of the week when my other stuff shows up. Not complaining though. Now to find a babysitter so I can get this thing together. Once its running I will probably get a mikuni Carb, seen alot of good reviews.
	0

07-01-2011, 11:33 AM	#71
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	Just doing a little final prep now. Then hopefully ill be able to dig in EDIT: The circlip was too small, trying to track one down at a local shop. Hopefully I'll find one, EDIT 2: Found a circlip, my buddy at the honda shop came through! A whopping 82 cents apiece! Now fighting to get everything together. With the tensioner all the way out it seems like the cam chain is still too small...any tricks?
	0

07-01-2011, 08:40 PM	#72
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	Ok, so ran into pretty much nothing but problems today. Got the circlip through a buddy of mine, its a 16mm circlip, not a 15 like what is found in the xr200r. Guess I could have measured the one I had to find that out, but I guess you live and learn. Got everything ready to assemble, did a dry fit, the cam chain wasn't long enough to even begin to go around the sprocket. WTF?! So I take it apart, and look into it, the chain was caught on a guide that the tensioners go into, so that was a easy fix. Started to put the gaskets on, noticed it was a tight fit, then started actually paying attention and noticed the opening in the gasket for the cylinder was wayyyy too small. Wrong gasket set! Its the one I ordered, so why isn't it fitting? The Roketa 200cc calls for a 63.5 mm piston, mine is a 66.5, hmm, guess I should have paid attention to that instead of blindly ordering the part that is suppose to fit this bike. Now I can't figure this thing out, the engine number located on the frame says its a 66.5mm piston, the engine number on the engine itself says its a 63.5. So the top end seems to be the one for this frame, the bottom end doesn't. But the top end also says its a 200cc, everything I can find on the DB-27a calls for a 63.5 piston. I don't know WHAT happened there, but oh well. Worse comes to worse, I should have more power than what I thought. So to fix the gasket issue, rather than order a new set(the company I went through doesn't accept returns unless they sent the wrong part, I ordered what they sent, so thats on me, pisses on a $20 bill) I went to the local auto parts store and bought a roll of gasket material, and set out to make my own gaskets. 2 hours later, two not so pretty but functional gaskets are born. Note to everyone, if your going to be doing precision cutting on felt gasket material, use a GOOD Hobby knife set, not a cheap one picked up for $3 because you only need it for one thing. After much frustration, I now have everything prepared, including some High Temp RTV gasket maker to insure a good seal, as well as for the valve cover. In between all this I took the carb apart to make sure everything was clean, it now looks like its out of the box new, went ahead and set the clip to the very last notch in anticipation of it running lean. Unfortunately, I'm most likely out of time today to do anything to it. So its prepared to be assembled, but I probably won't get to it until Sunday. I MIGHT be able to get out there later tonight once the little ones go to sleep, but its doubtful. :( On another note, found the spark plug boot I've been looking for, so atleast everything on the bike is ready to accept the engine and (hopefully) ride off into the sunset. All in all, helluva day!
	0

07-02-2011, 12:23 AM	#74
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	They should work as good. Same thickness and material. And I can make it cover more of the head so it should seal better. But as a safeguard I used gasket dressing too. EDIT: everything is put together. Missing a couple bolts but they aren't viral. One from the crankshaft bolt cover ( there are suppose to be 4) and one of the secondary valve coverbolts. Will pick up replacements tomorrow. Won't be chrome headed but will work. Compression seems to be alright, from me turning the kickstart over by hand and having my thumb over the sparkplug opening. Still need to install the starter and get the engine mounted. Hopefully will face some time tomorrow. EDIT 2: Thinking maybe it was just because I was holding the motor upright, holding my thumb over the spark plug opening, and trying to turn it over.... Got everything together, installed in frame. Getting Spark, getting gas, getting nothing else, :( . Going to do a compression test tomorrow after I adjust the valves. Didn't even think to adjust them before, DOH! Thats what I get for assembling a motor at 1:00 am after a long day of work. That and I've been out of the wrenching game for too long, missing little things that I know better than to miss.
	0

07-03-2011, 11:40 PM	#75
Influencer88 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	She RUNS!!!!! Had to remove the engine again, the valve retainers weren't seating good so I wasn't getting enough compression. Took care of that, adjusted the valves(before I put the engine in this time) and then put the engine back in. Went to kick start it(starter isn't working up to par, but thats an issue with me trying to start it off of a battery charger, not enough juice!), kick start lever just spun around, looked at it, no bolt...hmm... slid it off, there was a bolt, or atleast half of one. Drilled the bolt out, tapped it, put a new bolt in, went to start it again, no go, forgot to turn the gas on, . Turned gas on, checked everything else, all systems go, pushed kick start halfway down until I felt resistance, let it up, gave it a good hefty kick, and she fired right up. Doesn't idle worth a damn, but no air box and no exhaust will do that. But a gentle rev and she revved up good. On the agenda now: Fix throttle, doesn't want to come back after giving it throttle, spring feels fine, I think its just a sticky carb. Build battery box, install battery and connect. Figure out how the hell the clutch lever is suppose to connect to the clutch Install Exhaust and Intake Cut chain and install Build a front sprocket cover, will most likely be a completely ugly piece of sheet metal bent to clear sprocket. Ride into the sunset!
	0