2022 Templar 250 only starts with hot start and will die unless I hit the throttle.

[GigaXi]

Hi everyone! Let me begin with saying that I'm very new to this, and I'm learning as I go. I just got a 2022 Templar X that's been sitting in a garage for about 7 months. I live in the mountains, but I picked up the bike in the city where the elevation is very different. My issue is pretty much in the title, but for more details, the bike starts ONLY if I hold the hot start lever. It dies if I let go. Also it pops a little, but I'm assuming that's just the hot start lever doing its thing. I messed with the fuel screw and it still doesn't idle, but it does take longer to die when the fuel crew is all the way in. I haven't opened up and cleaned the carb, because frankly I'm a little intimidated, but if someone could provide some guidance that would be perfect, and if I don't have to mess with the carb then that's even better. I just wonder if I need to rejet it since the elevation is way different here. Also, the seller gave me an extra carb they were going to put on but never got around to it. It's a Keihin T carb. I was thinking instead of cleaning out the old one, to just put the upgrade in, but then I have to rejet everything and that's a whole another can of worms I'm afraid of opening. Anyway, thanks in advance! Any info will be appreciated.

[Thumper]

Does the original carb on the bike show "Youall" brand?

It's a good carb, and many people here have rejet this for better performance (or just to work).

I will wait for an answer. Issue is that ANY carb will need rejetting and tuning. The original has an established base point that can be useful to get it running acceptably. Check here:
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=32177

[GigaXi]

Yes! The carb is a Youall.

Originally Posted by Thumper

Does the original carb on the bike show "Youall" brand?

It's a good carb, and many people here have rejet this for better performance (or just to work).

I will wait for an answer. Issue is that ANY carb will need rejetting and tuning. The original has an established base point that can be useful to get it running acceptably. Check here:
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=32177

[JerryHawk250]

Before you start trying to adjust the carb, I would do a valve adjustment.

[Texas Pete]

Originally Posted by GigaXi

Hi everyone! Let me begin with saying that I'm very new to this... the bike starts ONLY if I hold the hot start lever. It dies if I let go...

Everything you describe sounds normal to me. First this is not an EFI motorcycle. You simply don't start a carburetor motor and let go of the start button and it's up and running at idle on it's own humming along. Carburetor engines need to come to full operating temperature to idle on their own. I doubt many here read or follow the actual start and stop instructions in the manual that comes with the Templar bikes as it will explain the start process and stop process and I don't see these instructions repeated here.

On start first you need to hold a little open throttle manually with your hand until it is running at fully warmed up temperature. Second you need to pull on the choke lever because if properly tuned the bike should not start and idle without choke. If it does it's tuned too rich. As the engine and carburetor heat up they naturally expand and open and the mixture naturally goes richer. This is why it should be lean when cold and require choke in the first place.

You should be pulling the choke all the way open. Give and hold a little throttle and then press one of the brakes and press the start button. You should not have to hold the start button long. While warming up I like to keep the RPM around 2500-3000 it will fluctuate around this as your hand tires or the engine warms.

Do a slow count to thirty seconds, alligators, Mississippis or whatever floats your boat.

As it warms the rpm will start to rise as the engine and carburetor metals are expanding and naturally holding a richer and richer fuel flow setting. This is a sign you can go to part 2.

Part 2 you let half of the choke out. You know it will be half as the rpm will drop again. If it pops and wants to quit you induced a lean condition or the motor jus hasn't reached the required temperature jus yet and you need to pull a little more choke to enrichen the mix again and it will once again return to higher rpm and run without pops.

Do your slow count to thirty. Now you can try slowly letting off choke towards no choke. In summer or warm days this should be plenty enough time to warm up the engine to running temperature and it will idle 100% normal on it's own. In winter or cold days you will still need a few more slow count seconds to let the engine fully warm up to operating temperature.

During this whole procedure any pops are a sign of lean running condition and need for a bit more opening of the choke for longer as the engine hasn't warmed up enough to run well on the reduced choke setting.

You'll get the hang of it and soon learn your motor and your elevation start process.

And reading the manual, stopping process is get off the bike in idle and turn the pet cock fuel flow off. When the bike quits running it has drained the carburetor. Turn the ignition switch off, turn off the key and remove and you are done for the day.

And add another vote for check your valve clearance sooner than later to confirm if the previous owner knew these engines normally ship with the valves too tight from the factory. Valves tighten with running so periodically you'll need to recheck and adjust to loosen the gaps as you own and run the bike.


Once you've got the process down and tire of holding the throttle with your hand you can get a large knob to go on the idle speed adjustment screw then you can dial the idle up high to substitute for your hand holding the throttle open. Then when running temperature you dial it down to between 1500-2000 rpm range wherever your particular engine and elevation likes it and keeps running. eBay or AliExpress sell them dirt cheap. Thumper has a post on his and I'm sure it's in the main Templar resource post thread as well by now.

[GigaXi]

Thanks for the huge write up! I just realized that I never even touched the choke lever...have yet to locate it. But the bike didn't come with a manual, so this is extremely helpful. I'll try tomorrow first thing in the morning. Thanks again, this is a huge help. How hard is it to check the valve clearance?

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

Everything you describe sounds normal to me. First this is not an EFI motorcycle. You simply don't start a carburetor motor and let go of the start button and it's up and running at idle on it's own humming along. Carburetor engines need to come to full operating temperature to idle on their own. I doubt many here read or follow the actual start and stop instructions in the manual that comes with the Templar bikes as it will explain the start process and stop process and I don't see these instructions repeated here.

On start first you need to hold a little open throttle manually with your hand until it is running at fully warmed up temperature. Second you need to pull on the choke lever because if properly tuned the bike should not start and idle without choke. If it does it's tuned too rich. As the engine and carburetor heat up they naturally expand and open and the mixture naturally goes richer. This is why it should be lean when cold and require choke in the first place.

You should be pulling the choke all the way open. Give and hold a little throttle and then press one of the brakes and press the start button. You should not have to hold the start button long. While warming up I like to keep the RPM around 2500-3000 it will fluctuate around this as your hand tires or the engine warms.

Do a slow count to thirty seconds, alligators, Mississippis or whatever floats your boat.

As it warms the rpm will start to rise as the engine and carburetor metals are expanding and naturally holding a richer and richer fuel flow setting. This is a sign you can go to part 2.

Part 2 you let half of the choke out. You know it will be half as the rpm will drop again. If it pops and wants to quit you induced a lean condition or the motor jus hasn't reached the required temperature jus yet and you need to pull a little more choke to enrichen the mix again and it will once again return to higher rpm and run without pops.

Do your slow count to thirty. Now you can try slowly letting off choke towards no choke. In summer or warm days this should be plenty enough time to warm up the engine to running temperature and it will idle 100% normal on it's own. In winter or cold days you will still need a few more slow count seconds to let the engine fully warm up to operating temperature.

During this whole procedure any pops are a sign of lean running condition and need for a bit more opening of the choke for longer as the engine hasn't warmed up enough to run well on the reduced choke setting.

You'll get the hang of it and soon learn your motor and your elevation start process.

And reading the manual, stopping process is get off the bike in idle and turn the pet cock fuel flow off. When the bike quits running it has drained the carburetor. Turn the ignition switch off, turn off the key and remove and you are done for the day.

And add another vote for check your valve clearance sooner than later to confirm if the previous owner knew these engines normally ship with the valves too tight from the factory. Valves tighten with running so periodically you'll need to recheck and adjust to loosen the gaps as you own and run the bike.


Once you've got the process down and tire of holding the throttle with your hand you can get a large knob to go on the idle speed adjustment screw then you can dial the idle up high to substitute for your hand holding the throttle open. Then when running temperature you dial it down to between 1500-2000 rpm range wherever your particular engine and elevation likes it and keeps running. eBay or AliExpress sell them dirt cheap. Thumper has a post on his and I'm sure it's in the main Templar resource post thread as well by now.

[Texas Pete]

General rule.

Are there two cables running to the carburetor? You likely have a remotely located choke lever.

One cable running to the carburetor you have a choke pull lever or lift tab on the carburetor itself.

Choke controle may or may not be labeled. It could be the word choke or a symbol that looks like a block capital letter N.

It may have detents at the halfway point making it easy to feel half position or it may not and allow infinite travel between open and closed positions. You need to learn your bike. I only know the X model which has a small silver finger lever on top of the left handlebar above and to the right of the clutch lever.

In the grand scheme of things checking valve clearance is relatively easy on these bikes compared to others. But as a beginner it will all be Greek the very first time.You'll need a relatively inexpensive tool, a feeler gauge and a screwdriver and a wrench from a wrench set; most Chinese bikes use metric sizes. Then a socket and breaker bar to turn the motor over until it's lined up in the correct position to check and adjust the valves. JerryHawk250 on here has videos on the process for China bikes, so do other folks on YouTube. If your engine model number matches those in the Templar resources post that post has the gap sizes posted. If you can watch videos online doing it and tackle a job you'll be good to go, if not ask a friend to show you how and learn that way.

[flopsweat]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

Everything you describe sounds normal to me. First this is not an EFI motorcycle. You simply don't start a carburetor motor and let go of the start button and it's up and running at idle on it's own humming along. Carburetor engines need to come to full operating temperature to idle on their own. I doubt many here read or follow the actual start and stop instructions in the manual that comes with the Templar bikes as it will explain the start process and stop process and I don't see these instructions repeated here.

On start first you need to hold a little open throttle manually with your hand until it is running at fully warmed up temperature. Second you need to pull on the choke lever because if properly tuned the bike should not start and idle without choke. If it does it's tuned too rich. As the engine and carburetor heat up they naturally expand and open and the mixture naturally goes richer. This is why it should be lean when cold and require choke in the first place.

You should be pulling the choke all the way open. Give and hold a little throttle and then press one of the brakes and press the start button. You should not have to hold the start button long. While warming up I like to keep the RPM around 2500-3000 it will fluctuate around this as your hand tires or the engine warms.

Do a slow count to thirty seconds, alligators, Mississippis or whatever floats your boat.

As it warms the rpm will start to rise as the engine and carburetor metals are expanding and naturally holding a richer and richer fuel flow setting. This is a sign you can go to part 2.

Part 2 you let half of the choke out. You know it will be half as the rpm will drop again. If it pops and wants to quit you induced a lean condition or the motor jus hasn't reached the required temperature jus yet and you need to pull a little more choke to enrichen the mix again and it will once again return to higher rpm and run without pops.

Do your slow count to thirty. Now you can try slowly letting off choke towards no choke. In summer or warm days this should be plenty enough time to warm up the engine to running temperature and it will idle 100% normal on it's own. In winter or cold days you will still need a few more slow count seconds to let the engine fully warm up to operating temperature.

During this whole procedure any pops are a sign of lean running condition and need for a bit more opening of the choke for longer as the engine hasn't warmed up enough to run well on the reduced choke setting.

You'll get the hang of it and soon learn your motor and your elevation start process.

And reading the manual, stopping process is get off the bike in idle and turn the pet cock fuel flow off. When the bike quits running it has drained the carburetor. Turn the ignition switch off, turn off the key and remove and you are done for the day.

And add another vote for check your valve clearance sooner than later to confirm if the previous owner knew these engines normally ship with the valves too tight from the factory. Valves tighten with running so periodically you'll need to recheck and adjust to loosen the gaps as you own and run the bike.


Once you've got the process down and tire of holding the throttle with your hand you can get a large knob to go on the idle speed adjustment screw then you can dial the idle up high to substitute for your hand holding the throttle open. Then when running temperature you dial it down to between 1500-2000 rpm range wherever your particular engine and elevation likes it and keeps running. eBay or AliExpress sell them dirt cheap. Thumper has a post on his and I'm sure it's in the main Templar resource post thread as well by now.

What a fantastic explanation! Very glad to find out I do it the exact same way, as the only time I can start it with zero throttle and little to no choke is when it's been sitting outside in the hot sun all day. My area is around 700' elevation.



I've never ran it with the petcock off until it stops, is it better to drain the carb at the end of the day? I don't think I saw that in my TT manual so just curious.



And I MUST get around to putting a knob on my idle screw. I'd love to be able to start it without feathering the throttle for two minutes in the winter. Anyone know if the one mentioned in the Templar resource guide ("ZS Racing Motorcycle Carburetor Idle Speed Adjustment Screw For Universal PWK Carburetor") would work for the TT250?

[GigaXi]

That's funny, perhaps the hot start lever is actually the choke lever? Please bear with me as I'm learning! I also have the 2022 TemplarX, so they've gotta be the same right? Anyway, I'm gonna assume the little silver lever by the clutch is the choke. I did what you suggested, and it idled on its own! For about a minute or so. I could see the rpms slooowly going down after I let it idle on its own. After that I couldn't get it to start again. Either I flooded it, or the starter got tired/battery got drained. I won't continue as it's my B-day and I have stuff planned for today, but thank you for your input! I made progress today, which is lovely! I'll get back probably tomorrow. Thanks again, you're a huge help.

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

General rule.

Are there two cables running to the carburetor? You likely have a remotely located choke lever.

One cable running to the carburetor you have a choke pull lever or lift tab on the carburetor itself.

Choke controle may or may not be labeled. It could be the word choke or a symbol that looks like a block capital letter N.

It may have detents at the halfway point making it easy to feel half position or it may not and allow infinite travel between open and closed positions. You need to learn your bike. I only know the X model which has a small silver finger lever on top of the left handlebar above and to the right of the clutch lever.

In the grand scheme of things checking valve clearance is relatively easy on these bikes compared to others. But as a beginner it will all be Greek the very first time.You'll need a relatively inexpensive tool, a feeler gauge and a screwdriver and a wrench from a wrench set; most Chinese bikes use metric sizes. Then a socket and breaker bar to turn the motor over until it's lined up in the correct position to check and adjust the valves. JerryHawk250 on here has videos on the process for China bikes, so do other folks on YouTube. If your engine model number matches those in the Templar resources post that post has the gap sizes posted. If you can watch videos online doing it and tackle a job you'll be good to go, if not ask a friend to show you how and learn that way.

[flopsweat]

You'll get the hang of it. If it makes you feel better, I had never operated a motorcycle outside of MSF until I got mine, and came on here asking why I couldn't get it started. Turned out it needed gasoline to run. It came with a little inside but without the petcock in the reserve position, it wasn't enough to start it. Just keep ticking off the "ah HAH I get it now" milestones one by one...

[GigaXi]

Yep, one by one haha. Thanks for the words of encouragement! I'll get there, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by flopsweat

You'll get the hang of it. If it makes you feel better, I had never operated a motorcycle outside of MSF until I got mine, and came on here asking why I couldn't get it started. Turned out it needed gasoline to run. It came with a little inside but without the petcock in the reserve position, it wasn't enough to start it. Just keep ticking off the "ah HAH I get it now" milestones one by one...

[Texas Pete]

@flopsweat - the petcock off drains most of the fuel in the bowl. Down to where the jet can no longer pick up any more fuel. This is preferable as if you forget to run your bike for a while the fuel can gum up in the bowl but the jets won’t be in the fuel that is going to snot.

To be really drained there is a screw under the bowl or on the side of the bottom of the bowl depending on make of carburetor. Opening this screw lets the fuel left in the bottom of the bowl completely drain out of the hose attached to the bowl and run out into a jar if you so happen to put one under the other end of the hose, otherwise run onto the bike and all over the floor.

You don’t have to drain it or use that method if you are going to run it again soon but it’s a very good habit to build and will prevent you from that one time when you forgot and now you need to pull and clean the carbs and the jets to get your bike running again.

@gigaxi - you likely flooded it. Have a think about it, if you spent one minute warming up a fully cold hunk of metal engine using the choke then half choke procedure the engine is now warm or hot. It no longer needs as much choke or perhaps any choke at all anymore after being warmed. Doing the full cold start choke procedure you are letting in more fuel than air so you can flood an already warmed engine.

To fix it just let it sit. The fuel will eventually evaporate. To fix it faster, pull the spark plug wire, remove the spark plug and set it where it won’t fall and damage the tip. Then if it’s only a little flooded just let it air out before reinstalling the plug and plug wire. If it’s full of a lot of fuel you can crank the engine over to move the piston and force a larger volume of fuel out of it.

When the engine is hot no choke is needed.

You are correct if you have the Templar X the small silver lever on the left handlebar is the choke lever. Pull it all the way in for full choke and let it out half way for half choke. You have full control of how much you let out so use the lean pops to tell you if you let out too much and immediately pull in a bit more choke until the pops stop. If you are too slow it may just quit. No big deal, just start again and depending on where you had the choke lever when it quit give it some more, start then bring it down and hold it just before the last position that made it pop. Let it run for thirty seconds or so to get more heat and expansion into the engine and carburetor then ease it out and see if it holds idle on its own.

Having sat so long without running you may have let the gasoline ethanol blend gum up your carburetor so you may have to pull it anyway. Clean out with spray carb cleaner. Then remove the jets and with the plastic tube in the spray cleaner give them a full squirt with cleaner inside then block the end and force carb cleaner out sideways through the side holes as well. Then clean out all passageways and orifices in the carburetor body. This is where you learn new muscle memory to get it reinstalled efficiently or learn new swear words. This will be good motivation to drain the carb properly from now on using the petcock close and engine still running method at the end of each ride and let it quit on it’s own after it drains down the fuel in the bowl. Use a hair dryer NOT a heat gun to warm the rubber air cleaner connector if trying to do this in winter. Warm rubber is a lot easier to reinstall onto each end of the carb when reinstalling everything.

All this assumes if it’s the OEM factory carb that the blind break off bolts etc have been taken care of to allow full acces once more to open the carb and tube it and change out jets as needed. If not see Thunpers post on how he did his for a guide.

[GigaXi]

The fuel was actually drained before it was stowed away before I bought it, so it's been sitting dry. But I'm guessing it's good practice to clean out the carb anyway. Having said that, any tips on removing it aside from using a hair dryer on the rubber? I've been trying to see how to get it out of there, but with so many wires and whatnot in the way I don't really see a good point of approach. But thank you for all the tips. I'm just letting it sit, and I'll try tomorrow again. Should I adjust the fuel screw since it slowly loses rpms as it idles? I'll have to look into the break off bolt thing, I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but I'm assuming everything is OEM.

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

@flopsweat - the petcock off drains most of the fuel in the bowl. Down to where the jet can no longer pick up any more fuel. This is preferable as if you forget to run your bike for a while the fuel can gum up in the bowl but the jets won’t be in the fuel that is going to snot.

To be really drained there is a screw under the bowl or on the side of the bottom of the bowl depending on make of carburetor. Opening this screw lets the fuel left in the bottom of the bowl completely drain out of the hose attached to the bowl and run out into a jar if you so happen to put one under the other end of the hose, otherwise run onto the bike and all over the floor.

You don’t have to drain it or use that method if you are going to run it again soon but it’s a very good habit to build and will prevent you from that one time when you forgot and now you need to pull and clean the carbs and the jets to get your bike running again.

@gigaxi - you likely flooded it. Have a think about it, if you spent one minute warming up a fully cold hunk of metal engine using the choke then half choke procedure the engine is now warm or hot. It no longer needs as much choke or perhaps any choke at all anymore after being warmed. Doing the full cold start choke procedure you are letting in more fuel than air so you can flood an already warmed engine.

To fix it just let it sit. The fuel will eventually evaporate. To fix it faster, pull the spark plug wire, remove the spark plug and set it where it won’t fall and damage the tip. Then if it’s only a little flooded just let it air out before reinstalling the plug and plug wire. If it’s full of a lot of fuel you can crank the engine over to move the piston and force a larger volume of fuel out of it.

When the engine is hot no choke is needed.

You are correct if you have the Templar X the small silver lever on the left handlebar is the choke lever. Pull it all the way in for full choke and let it out half way for half choke. You have full control of how much you let out so use the lean pops to tell you if you let out too much and immediately pull in a bit more choke until the pops stop. If you are too slow it may just quit. No big deal, just start again and depending on where you had the choke lever when it quit give it some more, start then bring it down and hold it just before the last position that made it pop. Let it run for thirty seconds or so to get more heat and expansion into the engine and carburetor then ease it out and see if it holds idle on its own.

Having sat so long without running you may have let the gasoline ethanol blend gum up your carburetor so you may have to pull it anyway. Clean out with spray carb cleaner. Then remove the jets and with the plastic tube in the spray cleaner give them a full squirt with cleaner inside then block the end and force carb cleaner out sideways through the side holes as well. Then clean out all passageways and orifices in the carburetor body. This is where you learn new muscle memory to get it reinstalled efficiently or learn new swear words. This will be good motivation to drain the carb properly from now on using the petcock close and engine still running method at the end of each ride and let it quit on it’s own after it drains down the fuel in the bowl. Use a hair dryer NOT a heat gun to warm the rubber air cleaner connector if trying to do this in winter. Warm rubber is a lot easier to reinstall onto each end of the carb when reinstalling everything.

All this assumes if it’s the OEM factory carb that the blind break off bolts etc have been taken care of to allow full acces once more to open the carb and tube it and change out jets as needed. If not see Thunpers post on how he did his for a guide.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by GigaXi

The fuel was actually drained before it was stowed away before I bought it, so it's been sitting dry. But I'm guessing it's good practice to clean out the carb anyway. Having said that, any tips on removing it aside from using a hair dryer on the rubber? I've been trying to see how to get it out of there, but with so many wires and whatnot in the way I don't really see a good point of approach. But thank you for all the tips. I'm just letting it sit, and I'll try tomorrow again. Should I adjust the fuel screw since it slowly loses rpms as it idles? I'll have to look into the break off bolt thing, I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but I'm assuming everything is OEM.

It will come out on the right side easily if you remove the muffler... The two 12mm bolts at the head, the 10mm bolt at mid-pipe, and one bolt under the right plastic rear cover.

You do have to remove the right front rack mount (basically remove the rack), BUT you can cut a slot in the plastic where that front rack mount is so that you no longer have to remove the rack when you bolt it all back together.

Actually, removing the carb is much easier and you don't need the heatgun/blow dryer. Getting it back on is a bigger challenge!

[Texas Pete]

If the carb was properly drained of fuel before storage you won’t have a need to open and clean the carburetor unless you want to carefully drill a hole in the aluminum plug hiding the air/fuel adjustment screw and want to dial in the adjustment for your elevation and jet size already installed in the carburetor. Carefully means don’t push the drill all the way in and drill out the actual set screw hidden underneath — again refer to Thumpers post for pictures and description. Or another reason is you want a winter project to remove all the blind break off security bolts so you can gain full access to the carb to change the jets in future to any sizes you want to use. Also another reminder for hair dryer only. No heat guns. Warmed rubber is pliable rubber that easily stretches over a reinstalled carburetor compared to cold rubber that is stiff. But burnt or melted rubber is no good rubber. No need for excessive heat, save the heat gun for stripping paint or other applications.