Vbike 250T Review (250T vs. V4SW) Lots O'Pics

[KentuckyDonkey]

So...I ordered a Vbike 250T and 300 Monster, intending to replace the Vbike V4SW which I had sold (V4SW was awesome...but the fenders weren't big enough to keep the cow manure off of me, and it didn't have a provision for a decent way to mount a sturdy hitch ball). The bikes arrived on Monday. Had them dropped in my neighbor's driveway, as a tractor-trailer can not make it into my place.


ASSEMBLY: The crates arrived undamaged! The 250T came more fully assembled out of the crate than the V4SW- therefore it was faster and easier to put together. I just needed to install the handlebars, rear rack, front bumper, front shocks into the upper shock mounts only (rest of front susp. including tie rods and hub assemblies were already all together)...put the wheels on, and a few little other things and it was ready to go. Half of the lug nuts were the wrong size- so right now, each wheel only has 2 nuts on it- Tim at Vbike is sending the missing ones.



This being the third China bike I've assembled, I knew what to expect- so I checked the bowl drain screw on the carb- because they are often loose, and allow gas to come pouring out when you gas 'er up. This one was tight- so I was good to go! I put gas in the tank and heard the disconcerting sound of gas pouring on the ground! Quick! Where's the gas shut-off?!!!! Turns out, the fuel line was not plugged into the carb- but just flapping in the breeze! I connected it, turned the gas back on, and viola![sic], it fired right up!

Not having much gas, I just let it idle a few minutes, then drove it home and around my property once (I almost flipped it/fell off of it!! Scary! ).



INITIAL IMPRESSIONS: O-K, the deal with the 250T is that it is supposed to be an updated, improved V4SW, with better fenders, bigger tires and a decent hitch mount. Turns out, while this 250T does have better fenders (Still not full utility-style fenders, but for as sport bike, these do work better than the ones on the V4SW and have kept the crap off of me so far), this one does NOT have bigger tires, nor does it have a better hitch.



If you look at various pics on other sites selling these bikes (Google "KMD ATV-57"), most of them do appear to have the upgrades. My theory is that Vbike has an older shipment of these bikes- i.e. ones that were earlier models and hence, do not have the upgrades.

Also, I thought this would have the same Lifan motor as the V4SW. While it does have a Lifan(I think...) it appears to be an earlier version- not the same one as on the V4SW (I loved the motor on the V4SW!!). This motor does not look as good and appears to have some mechanical differences.

Purely cosmetic: The green color on the 250T is definitely not as nice as the V4SW green (personal taste, I know) and the graphics on the 250T look retarded ("Flying Machine No.8" ?!! WTH is that?!)- I thought that the V4SW looked pretty nice with it's stock graphics. The 250T's coolant hoses are just covered with cheesey springs...whilst the V4SW's were covered with nice shiny flexible conduit.

250T:

V4SW:

V4SW:

It appears that most of these Chinese bikes are a mish-mash of various parts and components- and that the manufacturers makes changes frequently, and you really don't know exactly what you are getting when you order them (even the importers don't know, I believe)- so be advised,l that even from the reputable importers/dealers, like Vbike, what you get may be different than what you see in the pics on their website/what they tell you/listed specifications.

Back to the 250T: This bike also does not have the nice performance exhaust that the V4SW had, and it is not as fast as the V4SW (It is still reasonably fast for a 250- but not a beast, like the V4SW- it just doesn't seem to have as much horsepower- even though on Vbike's site, they'd have you think that it is as fast/faster than the V4SW.

The rack on 250T is not as big nor as sturdy as the one on the V4SW.

The front A-arms and rear swing-arm on the V4SW were powdercoated and looked like the finish would last a good long time. These same components on the 250 are just painted...with what appears to be rather thin paint, and I foresee quick deterioration and rust/bad looks.

Pet peeve: The pod on the handlebars that contains the electronic shift indicator display is just snapped on- it does not have a screw to secure it, as the V4SW does- therefore, it is free to flop around somewhat, as it does not fit very tightly, and will indeed rotate on the bars. (These shift indicators are really a nice feature though- they spoil you!)

250T:

V4SW:

The MAJOR ISSUE though, is that the 250T does not shift all that well. The V4SW shifts silky smooth. With the 250T, it is very difficult to get into reverse from neutral or to downshift. Seems the tranny always wants to stick between gears.

250T:

V4SW:

Overall, while the V4SW was of top quality Japanese-quality build- the 250T seems to be a somewhat less quality. It is not really cheesey, like some Chinese bikes...but is definitely a downgrade from the V4SW- and considering that the 250T costs $100 more than the V4SW, it seems silly to pay more money for less bike.

ULTIMATELY: Even if you don't mind less bike for more money, I would not recommend the 250T because of it's poor transmission.

This review will be updated as I ride the 250T more- but ultimately, I will be selling it shortly. (I had bought this and the 300 Monster with the intention of seeing which one best suited my needs, and selling the other. I really miss my V4SW now. I'm thinking that getting splattered with goo from too-scant fenders may have been an acceptable price to pay for the awesome quality of the V4SW in a <$1300 bike!!)

300 "Monster" review coming soon!

The shed is getting a little crowded!:

[katoranger]

Great initial review. You probably saved some buyers some time and helped make a decision.

I am wondering if adding some truck mudflaps to the stock V4SW would have helped cover the tires more.

Maybe the 300 monster will be the winner.

[KentuckyDonkey]

Originally Posted by katoranger

I am wondering if adding some truck mudflaps to the stock V4SW would have helped cover the tires more.

.

Why didn't I think of that?!!!!!! I was thinking of maybe some sheetmetal...or sheet plastic (Be a hassle finding the appropriate stuff and then making it fit and look decent)- but darn! Your idea is simple and cheap!

I may just end up selling both of these bikes and getting another V4SW (if Tim gets 'em back in stock). The 300 Monster is O-K...but costs $700 more, which seems high for just the added convenience of full fenders and racks...and still no hitch. (And the 300, which in reality is a Tao Tao, is not up to the quality of build of the V4SW)

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

...and viola![sic], it fired right up!...

I caught it! Your dry wit does not go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

...It appears that most of these Chinese bikes are a mish-mash of various parts and components- and that the manufacturers makes changes frequently, and you really don't know exactly what you are getting when you order them (even the importers don't know, I believe)- so be advised,l that even from the reputable importers/dealers, like Vbike, what you get may be different than what you see in the pics on their website/what they tell you/listed specifications...

That is superb advice that will help many potential buyers. Thank you for sharing the value of your experience.

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

... ULTIMATELY: Even if you don't mind less bike for more money, I would not recommend the 250T because of it's poor transmission…

Thank you for another superbly written, thoughtful analysis, KD. As always, your photographs are superb.

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

...300 "Monster" review coming soon!…

Like many others, I eagerly await another of your excellent reviews. Thank you.

Spud

[Danthalis]

Stupid work firewall won't let me see pictures... But thanks none the less for the review KD. You have saved me a giant heart break.

In any event just wanted to share an email I got back from vbike. I asked what the differences were for the v4sw vs the 250t and specifically if they came with the same engine. this was their response. I sent the email round 10am PST and got a reply that afternoon on 4/22

thank you ,250cc-t is the same v4sw ,just have bigger tire 23 and 22 inches we have in 5 diffirent color instock

Makes me worry that greed may be getting the best of them at vbike. Stuck with obviously an inferior bike they should have their supplier fix the problem, or at least let the customers know that what you see isn't what you're going to get.

[KentuckyDonkey]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I caught it! Your dry wit does not go unnoticed.

Spud

Thanks! You're the first person in a long time who's noticed that one! (I actually stole that from someone who says it like that unintentionally when reading aloud! )

And thanks for the kind words!

I have to do one other thing outside right now, then I may try and do a video review of the 300 Monster! (We'll see how it works out....I'm no David Hyde-Pierce(sp?) )

I really wish the tranny was better on this 250T- if it were, I'd give it pretty good marks. Even though it is not as good as the V4SW, it is not a piece of junk, either- it's actually a pretty cool bike....but it just seems silly to pay more, when one can have the better, silky-smooth shifting V4SW cheaper. (From what I'm seeing, that V4SW is the king of chinese bikes!I sure hope they keep making them- Tim says he's expecting more in soon...)

[KentuckyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Danthalis

Stupid work firewall won't let me see pictures... But thanks none the less for the review KD. You have saved me a giant heart break.

In any event just wanted to share an email I got back from vbike. I asked what the differences were for the v4sw vs the 250t and specifically if they came with the same engine. this was their response.

Makes me worry that greed may be getting the best of them at vbike. Stuck with obviously an inferior bike they should have their supplier fix the problem, or at least let the customers know that what you see isn't what you're going to get.

Yeah, I wonder about that. When had Tim written to you? (I made him aware of the inaccuracies on Tuesday). Sometimes it may be a case of the manufacturers posting pics and leaving them up even after changes are made- or dealers having older units and being ignorant of changes, etc. But Tim is definitely aware of the issues with the 250T now- and I even sent him a link to this review.

When I was a kid, I worked briefly for an importer of Chinese plumbing supplies (actually, Taiwanese...which was part of China back then) and there was a lot of confusion over constant small changes on parts that were of the same model and part number. It seems the manufacturers make changes nilly-willy on a whim, and don't mention it, or tell you where the demarcation point is between an old batch and a new batch.

But it is clear that Tim has an older batch of these bikes (maybe it's just the green ones???)- If the 250T I received had the same motor/tranny as the V4SW, I would give it kudos and just note the other small differences.

Although the quality of these bikes (even this 250T) is not bad for the money paid......I think they'd have a much better reputation if the importers/dealers and manufacturers would get their acts together and make sure that people receive exactly what is represented when they place their order. Dilligence pays off!

[Danthalis]

Man that would be GREAT to hear Tim's take on your situation. I was genuinely was planning on buying one of these bikes tomorrow, but now I've decided to wait for either another review, or Tim's response to you.

Vbike normally gets rave reviews for their product and customer service, I hope Tim takes the time to resolve these issues professionally and to both of your satisfactions. I really want to hear a happy ending to this because I have been proclaiming to everyone I know what a great company Vbike is.

That and I sold my v4sw :( heheheh and I need a replacement!

[KentuckyDonkey]

Ah! We're both in the same boat, Dan- both being V4SW-less! (I knew i was going to be sorry that I sold it!!!)

Heh...I have some issues with the 300 Monster (discrepancies) that I'll mention in the review on that bike when I post it.

I've also been pimping Vbike to a lot of people. I just assumed from the V4SW experience that all of their bikes were of similar quality...but now i see that they are not.

Tim has been good to deal with thus far- but he really hasn't addressed these 250T issues at all (other than the missing lug nuts)- although I really haven't pushed the issue- and don't know if I will, as long as I can sell the bike and not lose anything, or even make a little on the deal like I did with the V4SW. But it will be interesting to see what is forthcoming.

Tim does seem to try really hard to make people happy- and I don't think I've seen one single complaint on all the internet about Vbike- and I know I'd be really disappointed if he turned out to be anything less than what we and everyone else is saying about him, because it seems that there are no other good Chinese internet dealers out there- you can't find one that isn't mired in complaints (unless of course they new...or using a new name...)

I'd say not to use my 250 experience as a rule though- as, like i said, I may not push the issue. if i can sell it for a decent ammount...no harm, no foul, I'll be happy. And I really don't want to push the issue if I'm going to sell it. My only reservation right now is the tranny...but maybe with a little use and some Rotella in the crankcase, that will change?

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

...My only reservation right now is the tranny...but maybe with a little use and some Rotella in the crankcase, that will change?

After some indecently high prices, Shell Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic motor oil is now only $19/gallon at Wal-Mart. :roll: This oil was as high as $23/gallon a few months back. I absolutely love this oil. The gearbox in my Zongshen Sierra 200GY-2 is very smooth; however, it shifts even more smoothly when the Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic is bathing it. If you haven't done so already, you might want to try this oil. I just bought another gallon of the stuff two days ago. Gasoline prices are on the rise; I bet that motor oil prices are soon to follow. :(

Spud

[KentuckyDonkey]

Good idea, Spud, about stocking up on the earl before the prices go up again!!!

I've never used the synthetic- but now I'll have to try it...but not on the 250T, as it will likely not even be broken-in by the time I sell it.

Everyone: Here's a little video review of the 300 Monster. I'm not posting it in a seperate topic, because I'm going to do a regular written review (hopefully tonight...) and it kinda sucks (the vid...not the 300 M)...so it's just for your entertainment:

[Danthalis]

Just saw the pictures and had one last question about the 250T for ya KD. Did it come with hand guards and you chose to leave them off, or did it not come with them at all? (had them on all the pictures I've seen online, so just curious)

[KentuckyDonkey]

Oh...yeah...ooopps! It did indeed come with handguards- I just chose to leave them off for now...plus, I can't figure out how the outboard ends attach to the handlebar ends!

Thanks for reminding me.

I was just going to take the 250T for a ride- warmed it up, started riding, and it started bogging down at less than half throttle!!!!

I suppose, this being an older unit, it probably had gel in the carb for shipping, and will now need to be taken off and cleaned out......iy! (It ran fine after I assembled it and next day....sat for 2 days...nopw this!)

This is the first actual driveability issue I've had with a China bike. I'm getting disgusted- this thing is a heap. All 250T's may not be this way...but they definitely slipped in an older unit here, and I think it is time to see what Tim will do about it.

[KentuckyDonkey]

The drama continues....

Tim just informed me via email that he did indeed get a mixed shipment, with some new style and some older 250Ts!!!!

Of course, I got the older style.....

If I had gotten the newer style, which is more like the V4SW with the addition of better fenders, better hitch and bigger tires, this would have been the one I'd keep.

So it seems that my review is only relevent to the older model 250Ts. Trouble is, there seems to be no way to know which one you will receive if you order one.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

The drama continues....

Tim just informed me via email that he did indeed get a mixed shipment, with some new style and some older 250Ts!!!!

Of course, I got the older style.....

If I had gotten the newer style, which is more like the V4SW with the addition of better fenders, better hitch and bigger tires, this would have been the one I'd keep.

So it seems that my review is only relevent to the older model 250Ts. Trouble is, there seems to be no way to know which one you will receive if you order one.

Well, that is a major problem. :( Thank you for telling your fellow riders; now they can make an informed decision.

Spud