Close...but not quite

Ski_rush · 03-15-2019, 11:54 PM

So, I got the new battery from Amazon today. It arrived fully charged and I bolted it up as soon as I got home. There is some progress; the engine is turning over and trying to start. So, I likely don't have a short, or a loose connection, or a bad starter solenoid, correct?

.

1. Gas was on.

2. Bike is in Neutral, but I also tried with clutch in, just to be sure.

3. You don't see this in the video, but I also tried rolling the throttle halfway and then all the way and got pretty much the same result. The sound changed a little (actually thought it might go for a second).

4. You don't see this in the video either, but I also tried with choke off, halfway, and fully on. Same result and no change whatsoever in the sound of the cranking.

Please help me get this started. I have a feeling that you all are going to suggest a carb and/or jet change...

Thanks,

tarote9025 · 03-16-2019, 12:09 AM

Is the fuel turned on i was wrenching on something the other day and almost took the carb out before i remembered to turn it back on simple stuff usually gets overlooked in my experience you could also just crank the idle screw down until it cranks and back it out after had to do it on my buddies bike about a week ago after watching him kick 30 times lol

Jeff Richardson · 03-16-2019, 12:12 AM

OK, so it's new and you've never run it. Already found a defective battery. Man, I'd be super pissed right now. Since you have a nice crank might else well pop the plug and check the spark. Then grab the ether next. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to get to the intake on those Apollos. Hawk is simple to unclamp at carb. Worst case you have easy access to the airbox with seat off. Also you should be smelling gas. Definitely want to make sure it's getting to the carb.

Ski_rush · 03-16-2019, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Richardson

OK, so it's new and you've never run it. Already found a defective battery. Man, I'd be super pissed right now. Since you have a nice crank might else well pop the plug and check the spark. Then grab the ether next. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to get to the intake on those Apollos. Hawk is simple to unclamp at carb. Worst case you have easy access to the airbox with seat off. Also you should be smelling gas. Definitely want to make sure it's getting to the carb.

1. I forgot to mention that I have a brand new NGK spark plug in it right now.

2. Yes, I smell a little gas.

3. Yes, I'm pissed and want to drop kick this thing off a cliff.

Jeff Richardson · 03-16-2019, 12:19 AM

Brand new plug but is it getting good spark when you ground it to the head?

Ski_rush · 03-16-2019, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Richardson

Brand new plug but is it getting good spark when you ground it to the head?

By grounding to the head, do you mean touching the nut/bolt of the plug to the cylinder head of the engine? If so, I didn't try that yet. Is that what you meant?

Jeff Richardson · 03-16-2019, 12:28 AM

Yes ground the tip with it plugged in while cranking. Just make sure not to pull it away while cranking or you'll get a nice little jolt. 😁

Ski_rush · 03-16-2019, 01:35 AM

There is no spark. I did as you suggested. Took the plug out, and reconnected the cable and made sure it was pushed all the way in. No spark.

I tried both the NGK plug that I got as a "free gift" from the seller and the "NGK" plug that came in the bike. No spark.

I'm guessing that this means there's a much bigger and more significant problem with the bike...am I right?

NzBrakelathes · 03-16-2019, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski_rush

There is no spark. I did as you suggested. Took the plug out, and reconnected the cable and made sure it was pushed all the way in. No spark.

I tried both the NGK plug that I got as a "free gift" from the seller and the "NGK" plug that came in the bike. No spark.

I'm guessing that this means there's a much bigger and more significant problem with the bike...am I right?

Check wires at CDI and coil to be sure its not broken loose or looks like on but not actually on.
Check kill switch check ignition switch to see if the wries are no somehow connected.
Check the blue/white wire and green/white wire from stator area that they are actually connected etc

Ski_rush · 03-16-2019, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Check wires at CDI and coil to be sure its not broken loose or looks like on but not actually on.
Check kill switch check ignition switch to see if the wries are no somehow connected.
Check the blue/white wire and green/white wire from stator area that they are actually connected etc

And, what would it mean if those wires are all connected just fine?

Ski_rush · 03-16-2019, 02:35 AM

The bottom line is that I believe that I have a lemon that won’t start. And, to make matters worse, I unknowingly purchased it from Manny. I didn’t know it at the time.

I am tired of dropping time and money into this POS that won’t start. I bought a new battery, got excited, hooked it up, only to find it has no spark. Things are going from bad to worse. I can’t just eat $1700 to chalk it up to lesson learned. I don’t have that kind of money to be able to do that.

I contacted the bank. They opened a dispute, but they also give the seller a chance to refute my claims and make his own claims. I’m sure Manny has dealt with this issue before and is practiced at it. It’s my word against his and the bank decides the result.

Anyone have tips and advice on handling the dispute with the bank and showing evidence?

If the bank decides in his favor, I’m left with a paperweight sitting in the garage that cost me $1700. I’m sure that’s going to go over splendidly with the wife. I’ll never hear the end of that.

Or, I can offer it up for sale here. I’m sure some will try to kick me when I’m down with their offers too. The joy and excitement of owning this bike, and thinking of riding off road with my boys are all dead.

**JerryHawk250** · 03-16-2019, 07:21 AM

Did your bike come with a remote start? If so try starting it with it. Could be something with the alarm system killing the spark.

pete · 03-16-2019, 07:57 AM

I think the starter could be robbing most of the power not
leaving enough for the spark... weak or no spark..

some bike starter just barely crank the motor fast enough to start it..

I know you have a new battery.... but not all are created equal..
just don't buy cheap battery's .. " Yuasa "

kick it.. push it... try engine start...

once started and run for a few minute the issue could go away...
I have rebuilt motors... they would not start with out a push...
but once started they were perfect from then on..

..

..

Hancadam · 03-16-2019, 08:12 AM

I know it's frustrating, and confusing tracking down electrical issues, but this is probably something very simple and cheap. Finding what that simple problem is the hard part. If youre not getting spark, it can a host of things.

Possible problems areas to check:
Bad ground
Popped fuse
Kill switch (if you have one)
Bad cdi
Battery (I know you replaced, but points above are valid)
Loose connection
Bad ignition coil or boot
Etc...

These are the kind of risk and challenges we accept when buying these bikes. Some of use get very lucky, others not. But when there are issues like this with Chinese bikes, it's mostly up to the buyer to accept in my opinion. At least I assume me working to fix it is the most palatable solution over trying to get help from the "dealer" (like you said, especially Manny).

Where are you located? Maybe one of us are close to you. This is something we can collectively resolve. Point is, the problem/solution is likely very cheap or free to fix, once found.

Hancadam · 03-16-2019, 08:22 AM

It may also be worth confirming no spark means no shock from the plug. The redneck way of testing that is to hold the spark plug in your hand will turning the bike over and seeing if it shocks you. I've had to do that several times diagnosing no spark issues on 3 wheelers.

03-15-2019, 11:54 PM	#1
Ski_rush Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 449	Close...but not quite So, I got the new battery from Amazon today. It arrived fully charged and I bolted it up as soon as I got home. There is some progress; the engine is turning over and trying to start. So, I likely don't have a short, or a loose connection, or a bad starter solenoid, correct? . 1. Gas was on. 2. Bike is in Neutral, but I also tried with clutch in, just to be sure. 3. You don't see this in the video, but I also tried rolling the throttle halfway and then all the way and got pretty much the same result. The sound changed a little (actually thought it might go for a second). 4. You don't see this in the video either, but I also tried with choke off, halfway, and fully on. Same result and no change whatsoever in the sound of the cranking. Please help me get this started. I have a feeling that you all are going to suggest a carb and/or jet change... Thanks,
	0

03-16-2019, 07:21 AM	#12
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,590	Did your bike come with a remote start? If so try starting it with it. Could be something with the alarm system killing the spark. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

03-16-2019, 07:57 AM	#13
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,262	I think the starter could be robbing most of the power not leaving enough for the spark... weak or no spark.. some bike starter just barely crank the motor fast enough to start it.. I know you have a new battery.... but not all are created equal.. just don't buy cheap battery's .. " Yuasa " kick it.. push it... try engine start... once started and run for a few minute the issue could go away... I have rebuilt motors... they would not start with out a push... but once started they were perfect from then on.. .. .. __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	0

03-16-2019, 12:09 AM	#2
tarote9025 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: miramar beach fl Posts: 112	Is the fuel turned on i was wrenching on something the other day and almost took the carb out before i remembered to turn it back on simple stuff usually gets overlooked in my experience you could also just crank the idle screw down until it cranks and back it out after had to do it on my buddies bike about a week ago after watching him kick 30 times lol
	0

03-16-2019, 12:12 AM	#3
Jeff Richardson Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 64	OK, so it's new and you've never run it. Already found a defective battery. Man, I'd be super pissed right now. Since you have a nice crank might else well pop the plug and check the spark. Then grab the ether next. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to get to the intake on those Apollos. Hawk is simple to unclamp at carb. Worst case you have easy access to the airbox with seat off. Also you should be smelling gas. Definitely want to make sure it's getting to the carb.
	0

03-16-2019, 12:19 AM	#5
Jeff Richardson Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 64	Brand new plug but is it getting good spark when you ground it to the head?
	1

03-16-2019, 12:28 AM	#7
Jeff Richardson Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 64	Yes ground the tip with it plugged in while cranking. Just make sure not to pull it away while cranking or you'll get a nice little jolt. 😁
	1

03-16-2019, 01:35 AM	#8
Ski_rush Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 449	There is no spark. I did as you suggested. Took the plug out, and reconnected the cable and made sure it was pushed all the way in. No spark. I tried both the NGK plug that I got as a "free gift" from the seller and the "NGK" plug that came in the bike. No spark. I'm guessing that this means there's a much bigger and more significant problem with the bike...am I right?
	0

03-16-2019, 02:35 AM	#11
Ski_rush Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 449	The bottom line is that I believe that I have a lemon that won’t start. And, to make matters worse, I unknowingly purchased it from Manny. I didn’t know it at the time. I am tired of dropping time and money into this POS that won’t start. I bought a new battery, got excited, hooked it up, only to find it has no spark. Things are going from bad to worse. I can’t just eat $1700 to chalk it up to lesson learned. I don’t have that kind of money to be able to do that. I contacted the bank. They opened a dispute, but they also give the seller a chance to refute my claims and make his own claims. I’m sure Manny has dealt with this issue before and is practiced at it. It’s my word against his and the bank decides the result. Anyone have tips and advice on handling the dispute with the bank and showing evidence? If the bank decides in his favor, I’m left with a paperweight sitting in the garage that cost me $1700. I’m sure that’s going to go over splendidly with the wife. I’ll never hear the end of that. Or, I can offer it up for sale here. I’m sure some will try to kick me when I’m down with their offers too. The joy and excitement of owning this bike, and thinking of riding off road with my boys are all dead.
	0

03-16-2019, 08:12 AM	#14
Hancadam Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 201	I know it's frustrating, and confusing tracking down electrical issues, but this is probably something very simple and cheap. Finding what that simple problem is the hard part. If youre not getting spark, it can a host of things. Possible problems areas to check: Bad ground Popped fuse Kill switch (if you have one) Bad cdi Battery (I know you replaced, but points above are valid) Loose connection Bad ignition coil or boot Etc... These are the kind of risk and challenges we accept when buying these bikes. Some of use get very lucky, others not. But when there are issues like this with Chinese bikes, it's mostly up to the buyer to accept in my opinion. At least I assume me working to fix it is the most palatable solution over trying to get help from the "dealer" (like you said, especially Manny). Where are you located? Maybe one of us are close to you. This is something we can collectively resolve. Point is, the problem/solution is likely very cheap or free to fix, once found.
	1

03-16-2019, 08:22 AM	#15
Hancadam Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 201	It may also be worth confirming no spark means no shock from the plug. The redneck way of testing that is to hold the spark plug in your hand will turning the bike over and seeing if it shocks you. I've had to do that several times diagnosing no spark issues on 3 wheelers.
	1