Transmissions..

[TurboT]

Wondering what you guys thing about metal shavings in your car transmission pan/fluid and filter screen? Normal wear and tear or sign of disaster looming?

165,000kms or 102,000 miles.

[katoranger]

Like dust filings or shavings? Some filings is pretty normal, but larger pieces is a bad things.

Is the fluid clean otherwise and not burnt smelling?

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by katoranger

Like dust filings or shavings? Some filings is pretty normal, but larger pieces is a bad things.

Is the fluid clean otherwise and not burnt smelling?

Fluid is clean and not smelling but could be new. Van shifts and drives perfectly normal.

[Weldangrind]

Sounds like a classic example of not changing tranny fluid often enough. IIRC, the Caravan manual recommends a fluid change every 45000 km.

If it shifts and drives, I'd run it. A complete flush that includes the torque converter is a really good thing. The T-tech device is apparently very effective.

[TurboT]

It was my opinion too that it was normal. I didn't see the filings myself, just the tranny shop trying to scare me into installing a new tranny.

Sorry for the vague explanation, I didn't want to skew opinions on the shavings by giving the full story.

Basically I bought a cheap van knowing I'd have some repairs to do. Fellow I bought it off said he changed the TC seal but when I got it home it was still leaking. Tranny shop said it was the front pump seal leaking and the TC seal was installed incorrectly. (big surprise guy struck me as hack anyhow)

The tranny shop told me it was possible the metal filings cut the seals which is why it leaked. Said there was a lot in the pan and the screen and it's a sign of looming failure.

I just think it's never been serviced or cleaned out, and that all those gears and moving parts rubbing together have to create some form of metal particles. I think he screwed up the pump seal while changing the TC seal and never cleaned anything else out.

So, I'm going with the reseal job, clean out and new fluid and filters and hoping for the best. I'm of like mind to drive it until it burns out before investing the heavy cash on a new tranny, but was looking for additional opinions.

[BillR]

Originally Posted by TurboT

So, I'm going with the reseal job, clean out and new fluid and filters and hoping for the best. I'm of like mind to drive it until it burns out before investing the heavy cash on a new tranny, but was looking for additional opinions.

Nothing to add except this is exactly what I'd do, while looking for a low mileage salvage for the "new" tranny :wink:
Bill

[katoranger]

Me too. Just stick some new seals in change the filters and fluid.

What model caravan? Need to use the Chrysler type fluid.

Allen

[TurboT]

Hey Guys.. a little more updates from yesterday, just more money however at least some piece of mind to the metal shavings.

Guy at the shop told me he did some closer inspecting when everything was cleaned and ready to go and noticed the Torque Convertor was broken. Pretty much explained why there was all the shavings in it. Adds another 200 bucks to the cost but at least the thing is new and I don't have to worry about that going in the future too.

Kato the van is a 2001 Grand Caravan Sport with the 3.8L V6 and the 4 speed transmission with the computer controlled solenoid/computer under the hood. It takes ATF +4 according to the tranny dipstick.

Get it back on monday hope it's the end of my money spending and the wife can drive it without headaches.

[Reveeen]

hope it's the end of my money spending and the wife can drive it without headaches

It's a Dodge.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Reveeen

hope it's the end of my money spending and the wife can drive it without headaches

It's a Dodge.

That it is.

[VinceDrake]

Originally Posted by TurboT

That it is.

They're not that bad all in all...

I would've said something sooner, but I just checked back in here, But yeah, the 3.8L is just a little too much for that T/C, and they did have a nasty habit of breaking the vanes off internally, causing shrapnel, etc. I've never seen one cut a seal from it, but whatever.

Biggest thing we see with them though, is the differential inside the trans is kinda delicate. Specifically, Take it easy in the deep snow and ice, and don't spin the crap out of 1 wheel, and usually they last okay. As long as both wheels are moving, things are good.

I would strongly recommend though, a trans service once a year. Not because I am all that concerned with the fluid/metal shards, but it there are large chunks in the pan, it's likely from the diff. If it caught early enough it can be fixed, but if it spits the centre pin out of the differential, and guts the case, it makes it very, very difficult to rebuild, and often the price *Makes* it unre-buildable.

Anyways, They're not that bad. Not a Mercedes, but not a Windstar either.

--Vince

[TurboT]

Vince,

Thanks for weighing in.

It's been out of the shop for 5 days now, and has barely shut off since then. :S

It's been on a couple 1 hour cruises through city and highway, and the wife is always running around going somewhere right now with the kids on summer holidays.

All in all it seems to be fine. It does seem to have a hard downshift while starting from a slow desceleration (caught between 1st and 2nd) .. but other than that it drives really smooth and I like the feel of the entire van better than our just lease ended 2006 Montana van.

Being a Grand it's much roomier inside, and even my 6'6 self can sit in all three rows of seats without my knees digging into the seat or dash in front of me. The standard sized Montana we had even my 8 year old was squished in it.

You said the same as my tranny guy, to change the oil every year, which I intend to do. If I get a couple years out of this thing with minor repairs from here on in, I'm ahead of the game considering the $2,000 + repairs pricetag.

[VinceDrake]

Regarding the hard downshift:

They do tend to get confused between 1st and 2nd sometimes, but if it is consistently harsh, when slowing down to a stop etc--

The computer needs to know how long it takes to engage each clutch. There is a "Quick learn proceedure" built into the Transmission controller's software, that can be accessed with a scan tool. It is supposed to be done every time you have the transmission out, replace the TCM, disconnect the bat for more than an hour, etc.

It will run just fine without the quick learn proceedure being done, and eventually, it will figure out on it's own how long it takes to apply each clutch, and smooth out, but if you have a scanner, and do the proceedure (It takes about 5 minutes on a warm transmission, it smoothes them out quite a bit right away.

Not a critical fault, just a software thing.

--Vince

[BillR]

Originally Posted by VinceDrake

Regarding the hard downshift:
The computer needs to know how long it takes to engage each clutch. There is a "Quick learn proceedure" built into the Transmission controller's software, that can be accessed with a scan tool. It is supposed to be done every time you have the transmission out, replace the TCM, disconnect the bat for more than an hour, etc.
It will run just fine without the quick learn proceedure being done, and eventually, it will figure out on it's own how long it takes to apply each clutch, and smooth out, but if you have a scanner, and do the proceedure (It takes about 5 minutes on a warm transmission, it smoothes them out quite a bit right away.
Not a critical fault, just a software thing.
--Vince

Vince,
Great advice, and who'd da thunkit?.
That's reason enough to buy one of the scanner programs for a laptop.
Bill

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by VinceDrake

Regarding the hard downshift:

They do tend to get confused between 1st and 2nd sometimes, but if it is consistently harsh, when slowing down to a stop etc--

The computer needs to know how long it takes to engage each clutch. There is a "Quick learn proceedure" built into the Transmission controller's software, that can be accessed with a scan tool. It is supposed to be done every time you have the transmission out, replace the TCM, disconnect the bat for more than an hour, etc.

It will run just fine without the quick learn proceedure being done, and eventually, it will figure out on it's own how long it takes to apply each clutch, and smooth out, but if you have a scanner, and do the proceedure (It takes about 5 minutes on a warm transmission, it smoothes them out quite a bit right away.

Not a critical fault, just a software thing.

--Vince

You're than man Vince. Thanks for the input.

The downshift isn't horrible, and if it gets worse I'll look into it. Just was something I noticed.