New engine have rattle/grinding noise

[AresROC]

Took the bike out for some top speed flat out runs.


Seemingly after the bike ran over some dirt/rocks, bike is making a rattling/grinding noise. Video:


I parked the bike and checked for loose bolts. All were tight except the exhaust header can be tightened a bit more.


Rev the engine in neutral and the noise seems to be coming from the engine. Sounded as if a rock was inside, but it was not making the noise all the time, and from time to time the noise sounded really bad as if something is grinding.


I also noticed the valve noise is getting louder with its ticks.


Anyone have any idea what is causing the noise from an engine with 30 miles on it???


This is when the noise started:

[AresROC]

Well took off the valve cover and the valves are perfect 0.05/0.04mm. I guess the valve ticks are here to stay.


Noticed the oil level was a bit high so I dumped out synthetic 10w50 and put in synthetic 10w40s. Didn't put the whole quart in but the oil level window is showing middle level between high and low. Oil came out with streak in it similar to the shipping/break-in oil. Those things probably need an oil flush when new. This engine is at 100km/60 miles.



Went out riding and the noise didn't come back. Maybe the engine got extremely hot yesterday, would be nice to have an engine temp gauge...

[Bruces]

You are not breaking in that engine with synthetic oil are you ?that would be the first thing to do if you are is to get rid of that .

[JerryHawk250]

I was about to ask the same question Bruces. First problem I see is wide open throttle runs with only 30 miles on the engine and synthetic oil. Run straight dino oil and a few heat cycles to break in and have the rings, bearings wear and set. Hopefully you haven't done any damage. Put about 500 miles before switching to synthetic.

[Bruces]

They sell an engine oil fill cap with a gauge built in for those engines .

[AresROC]

Thanks I didn't think about breaking in the engine when the road is wide open in front of me.
I have heard of dino oil for breaking in vs synthetic. Don't really understand why but my thinking is although synthetic offers more protection, dino oil have more variables that can help the engine wear and set in more evenly? sounds plausible?


Local Walmart only had 2 different synthetics so I bought both of them.


Bruces, I tried the oil cap temp gauge but it didn't fit... the one I tried is in my Sig BSR Chronicles

[Bruces]

Sorry for the mixup ,for some reason I thought you had one of those grom clone bikes with a Honda horizontal clone engine .

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by AresROC

Thanks I didn't think about breaking in the engine when the road is wide open in front of me.
I have heard of dino oil for breaking in vs synthetic. Don't really understand why but my thinking is although synthetic offers more protection, dino oil have more variables that can help the engine wear and set in more evenly? sounds plausible?


Local Walmart only had 2 different synthetics so I bought both of them.


Bruces, I tried the oil cap temp gauge but it didn't fit... the one I tried is in my Sig BSR Chronicles

The basics of dino oil vs. synthetics during break in is a tricky subject. A lot of modern high performance engines actually do come with synthetic right from the show room. The key difference here is the machining tolerances on modern engines, as well as how clean and free of swarf (metallic machining deposits) as well as tighter tolerances and so on. These engines are based on an old design, cheaply built with loose tolerances, and as such don't quite fall under the "modern" and especially not the "high performance" aspects mentioned previously.

Why Dino oil? It comes down to mainly one thing, synthetic oils have a higher viscosity index at the same "weight" as conventional oils. This means that they maintain a higher viscosity at higher temperatures, and are thus considered more "slippery" (less long term wear), which is fancy speak for they are just better at doing their job when things get hot.

The tricky part? Motorcycle synthetics rated for wet clutches don't contain friction modifiers, so they will still allow the rings to "bed in." It will take longer for them to do so though, and in the meantime you will deal with a lot more blow by and fuel contamination in said oil. Breaking it in with regular dino oil will help get it over with. 500 miles is more than adequate as Jerry mentioned, and then you can switch right over. Plus if you take your bike out for a few decent rides, you would be amazed at how fast that 500 miles will go by. I was putting more than that on my last Hawk every month just using it to commute to work and run errands, and could easily do a 100 mile day on a weekend.

One other reason to switch to a regular Dino oil that is worth mentioning has to do with the flat tappet style lifters and cam that these engines run. I use and recommend Rotella T4 for this reason as well - it contains high levels of Zinc (ZDDP) at roughly 1200-1400ppm. This is critical in the break in stage to help prevent excess wear on the cam and lifters. Ideally the oil you run should contain more ZDDP than many modern oils contain - thanks EPA - but the break in stage is the most critical.

T4 also comes in the recommended viscosity for these engines, 15w-40, and is wet clutch rated. Plus, at less than 15 bucks for a gallon, you have enough oil or at least 3 oil changes.

As far as the valves, you can set them tighter than you have them now to help make them a little quieter. You can go down as low as .002" on both intake and exhaust, but I would recommend leaving them where they are until the break in period is done as those clearances will shrink some. Even with the clearances set at .002-.004" these motors are just tappy, as that is the nature of a solid lifter design.

Nerd rant over. Hope it helps.

[Megadan]

As for the engine grinding noise...

Does it change frequency - more or less intense/often - as the RPMs increase/decrease?
Does it stop when you pull in the clutch?

To my own ears I would almost peg that noise on the starter clutch not disengaging fully. Just a guess though, given I am listening to a recording from a sport camera off of youtube on a laptop.

[AresROC]

Thanks a ton MegaDan! I noticed you are on recently and am glad you are finding time back to us!


I thought the increased oil level were caused by blowbys. Further more there were streaks in the "new" oil I changed out.


As for the grinding noise, there were no pattern I can discern. Pulling in the clutch had no effect.


I thought the bolts to the stater were loose but they were actually ok and tight. Was wondering if the kick start were loose but it was not hanging out.


Anyway the noise went away the next day when I rode with new oil and correct oil level and no noise.

[roundhouse]

I wonder if it is something vibrating making the noise. My rear hand hold thing got loose and i thought my motor was about to blow.

[kirkallen143]

You sure it is not the all famous "gas-cap-key-hole-cover" vibrating? I stopped mine by epoxying a rubber washer the size of the cap underneath it. Don't forget the horn, mine vibrated loose, and stopped working, until I added loc-tite to it.

Kirk

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by kirkallen143

You sure it is not the all famous "gas-cap-key-hole-cover" vibrating? I stopped mine by epoxying a rubber washer the size of the cap underneath it. Don't forget the horn, mine vibrated loose, and stopped working, until I added loc-tite to it.

Kirk

I never had problems with the gas cap but the horn drove me nuts trying to figure out what was rattling.

[goat67]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I never had problems with the gas cap but the horn drove me nuts trying to figure out what was rattling.

Or the brace that goes between the tank plastic covers

[AresROC]

Thanks the gas tank cover is one of the first things I checked for vibration noise. The brace seems to be fine and tight, but I havn't checked the horn yet.