Shineray 200XYI bogging issues

wisest.fool · 12-27-2018, 08:25 PM

Ok, so I am stumped.

The backstory: Purchased 2 shineray 200 XYI for 850$ used. Been sitting for forever. one(black) with 350 miles one(blue) with 870 miles. Never played with Chinese bikes before. Seemed like a fun project and if one was absolute crap at least I had a parts bike.

Now: I have one running amazing (blue one) and one running and everything is working except it bogs at around 3000(ish) rpm. I am guessing because there is no tach.

engine is a 163 FML
compression is 117 PSI
brand new pz27 carb (it idles fine)
new fuel line
new battery
new NGK spark plug
new battery cables ( I melted the other ones... there was a short...)
new tubes for I am guessing the emission system.
new gas (non-ethanol 91 octane)
new oil 10w40 motorcycle oil
chain is lubed
tires have correct pressure
The carb needle stop is set on the lowest notch of 5 notches

i have not set the valves...
it does make some rattling but not ticking. I think its just a loose nut somewhere I haven't found yet. There were a few.

I have sprayed carburetor cleaner around the intake tube/intake manifold to see if air is getting in downstream of the carb and no definitive increase or decrease of rpm.

i have tried alkamp's fix [URL="http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6375&highlight=shineray+questions "]

maybe there is a leak in the crank case??

maybe there is not a strong enough spark at rpm?

its a shuddering bog like it wants to then stumbles then tries again then stumbles.

I have learned that the electrical connectors leave a lot to be desired.

I have learned that it is almost cheaper to buy a new carb(19$) than a repair kit(16$).

also these things go only 50 mph tops where can i get a smaller sprocket? its fine if i wanted to climb a mountain but on the highway it leaves much to be desired. And what jet could i reasonably go with to get a bit more pep?

Thank you all in advance for your advice, and please help.

Wisest.Fool

Mudflap · 12-27-2018, 08:39 PM

Put the E clip on the jet needle in the middle slot and give it a try.

wisest.fool · 12-27-2018, 11:04 PM

@mudflap: I just played with the carb again and set it on the 4/5 and drove it around as well as enriching up the idle mixture screw and same thing, however it was at night so i noticed something else... when the engine stutters the headlamp goes very very dim so i couldn't see anything. not the same as when you start it and it flickers like super dim. Im lucky there were street lights enough to see.

NzBrakelathes · 12-27-2018, 11:22 PM

Swap the CDI with the other bike - is the spark dying off?

wisest.fool · 12-28-2018, 12:40 AM

ok did my last test for the evening. swapped the coil cdi and rectifier one at a time no difference really the headlamp kept going on an off and still lagging at high rpm. so it seems i have 1/4 to 3/4 throttle good but the main jet in the last 1/4 is starving the engine. its a 98 main jet on a 200cc engine and my friend says thats rather small since his sons 90cc has a 125... tomorrow i will check float level and swap the carbs from the working shineray to the non working shineray to eliminate carb from the mix. i dont think that the carbs both have the same main jet. i dont remember seeing any mark on the working one so maybe thats all it is even though i ordered them from the same seller.

wisest.fool · 12-28-2018, 12:41 AM

@mudflap: i will also set it back to the middle setting although that is how it came and i tried that already, but maybe i was off on my mixture at the time.

wisest.fool · 12-28-2018, 06:47 PM

ok set slide needle in middle slot and checked carb bowl floats and the floats are good. put carb back on no dice still bogging. did have to adjust mixture a bit after moving needle slot. then i put the carb from the working bike on the bogging bike and still no dice it is better, but still bogging at 3/4 to WOT. I am moving on to valve adjustments. any advice guys i would appreciate it. i think in this case carbs can be eliminated. also i took off and closely examined the intake tube/manifold. It has some cracks, but i put my hand over one end and sucked as hard as i can and there was no leaks i could tell. again any ideas? in the meantime gonna work on valve adjustments.

respectfully,
wisest.fool

humanbeing · 12-28-2018, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisest.fool

... I am moving on to valve adjustments. any advice guys i would appreciate it...l

CG or CB?
[CG] https://josemaco.files.wordpress.com...h-62ktjam5.pdf Honda said In/ex: .08mm (.003") or follow the Hawk FAQ. IN: .002" / ex .003" is recommened in those Hawk 250 posts
[CB] https://www.4shared.com/office/xZy8oNOV Honda said In/ex: 0.1mm (~0.004") or follow whatever u found & believes

Megadan · 12-29-2018, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisest.fool

but still bogging at 3/4 to WOT.

This right here is a good clue. 3/4 to WOT is where the Main jet does 95% of the fueling.

If after checking and adjusting the valves you still experience this, I would suggest pulling the main jet as well as the needle jet (what it screws into) and checking and cleaning both. A thin bit of wire can do a good job of clearing the orifice in the main jet out.

Another quick way to eliminate fueling from the equation would be to swap the carbs between the two bikes. If the problem follows the carb, that narrows the problem down. If not, then it is likely that fueling, at least on the carb side of things, is not the culprit.

As a side note, comparing main jets on a smaller engine with a likely smaller carb is an apples to oranges. A 98 is likely too lean for your bike. Most of these 200cc and 230cc engines run the best with a 105 to 110 main jet.

Mudflap · 12-29-2018, 10:29 AM

The carb is a PZ27 not a PZ30 so the main jet will probably be smaller. The stock main jet in the Rhino which also uses a PZ27 is a #94. I put a #98 in mine when I switched to a pod filter and if anything its a little rich.

Mudflap · 12-29-2018, 10:31 AM

Could the exhaust be restricted?

NzBrakelathes · 12-29-2018, 10:38 AM

you have 2 bikes the same? move carbs across etc and see if fault follows, try exhaust or air filter etc etc as having 2 bikes really help to diag the issue

wisest.fool · 12-29-2018, 11:55 AM

@humanbeing: CB. Wow that is exactly what i was looking for since i started this. Thank you. I adjusted the valves to .1mm or .004 inch. this is what i found on a manufacturer's page that was selling this engine. Humanbeing, the manuals make me feel way better about my decision. The bike does run better now big difference. not totally fixed.... but much better. rideable i would say as long as you are not topping it out.

@megadan &NzBrakelathes: I did mention that i swapped the carb from good bike to bogging bike and it still does the bogging. Which although not fixing the problem makes me feel better because i was not really feeling that it is carbs. two brand new carbs that I set the mixture on with fresh gas and new air filters? Everyone telling me its the carbs so i kept working on them. I should have just swapped the carbs from the get go.

@Mudflap: I agree 98 seems small. I am going to put different jets in and see what comes of it. ALSO: exhaust restriction!! *smacks forehead* should have checked that first. These have been sitting in a shed in mud dauber country for 8 years.... this could very much be my problem. I will check that next.

So we are clear the bike is really running great until WOT. Starts fine idles fine runs fine up to 3/4 throttle. the bog is not too defined now not so sudden more of a waver than a shudder. I think that it would be fine for low speed riding, but for cruising down the back roads... i dont know. i will take it on a short ride today and see how we are looking. and check the exhaust.

Thanks everyone.

NzBrakelathes · 12-29-2018, 10:22 PM

if WOT and bugs or stutters that would suggest the main jet is too small (others mentioned the 98 being too small confirms the theory?)

You could swap CDI and coils over see if the issue follows or not.

Megadan · 12-30-2018, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

if WOT and bugs or stutters that would suggest the main jet is too small (others mentioned the 98 being too small confirms the theory?)

You could swap CDI and coils over see if the issue follows or not.

He has already tried swapping the cdi, coil, and reg/rec over.

I missed some of what he stated at first so I went back and read it over again.

Does it still dim the lights when you get the waiver in the rpms where it used to bog?

12-27-2018, 08:39 PM	#2
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,929	Put the E clip on the jet needle in the middle slot and give it a try.
	0

12-27-2018, 11:04 PM	#3
wisest.fool Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 6	@mudflap: I just played with the carb again and set it on the 4/5 and drove it around as well as enriching up the idle mixture screw and same thing, however it was at night so i noticed something else... when the engine stutters the headlamp goes very very dim so i couldn't see anything. not the same as when you start it and it flickers like super dim. Im lucky there were street lights enough to see.
	0

12-27-2018, 11:22 PM	#4
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Swap the CDI with the other bike - is the spark dying off?
	0

12-28-2018, 12:40 AM	#5
wisest.fool Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 6	ok did my last test for the evening. swapped the coil cdi and rectifier one at a time no difference really the headlamp kept going on an off and still lagging at high rpm. so it seems i have 1/4 to 3/4 throttle good but the main jet in the last 1/4 is starving the engine. its a 98 main jet on a 200cc engine and my friend says thats rather small since his sons 90cc has a 125... tomorrow i will check float level and swap the carbs from the working shineray to the non working shineray to eliminate carb from the mix. i dont think that the carbs both have the same main jet. i dont remember seeing any mark on the working one so maybe thats all it is even though i ordered them from the same seller.
	0

12-28-2018, 12:41 AM	#6
wisest.fool Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 6	@mudflap: i will also set it back to the middle setting although that is how it came and i tried that already, but maybe i was off on my mixture at the time.
	0

12-28-2018, 06:47 PM	#7
wisest.fool Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 6	ok set slide needle in middle slot and checked carb bowl floats and the floats are good. put carb back on no dice still bogging. did have to adjust mixture a bit after moving needle slot. then i put the carb from the working bike on the bogging bike and still no dice it is better, but still bogging at 3/4 to WOT. I am moving on to valve adjustments. any advice guys i would appreciate it. i think in this case carbs can be eliminated. also i took off and closely examined the intake tube/manifold. It has some cracks, but i put my hand over one end and sucked as hard as i can and there was no leaks i could tell. again any ideas? in the meantime gonna work on valve adjustments. respectfully, wisest.fool
	0

12-29-2018, 10:29 AM	#10
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,929	The carb is a PZ27 not a PZ30 so the main jet will probably be smaller. The stock main jet in the Rhino which also uses a PZ27 is a #94. I put a #98 in mine when I switched to a pod filter and if anything its a little rich.
	0

12-29-2018, 10:31 AM	#11
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,929	Could the exhaust be restricted?
	1

12-29-2018, 10:38 AM	#12
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	you have 2 bikes the same? move carbs across etc and see if fault follows, try exhaust or air filter etc etc as having 2 bikes really help to diag the issue
	0

12-29-2018, 11:55 AM	#13
wisest.fool Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 6	@humanbeing: CB. Wow that is exactly what i was looking for since i started this. Thank you. I adjusted the valves to .1mm or .004 inch. this is what i found on a manufacturer's page that was selling this engine. Humanbeing, the manuals make me feel way better about my decision. The bike does run better now big difference. not totally fixed.... but much better. rideable i would say as long as you are not topping it out. @megadan &NzBrakelathes: I did mention that i swapped the carb from good bike to bogging bike and it still does the bogging. Which although not fixing the problem makes me feel better because i was not really feeling that it is carbs. two brand new carbs that I set the mixture on with fresh gas and new air filters? Everyone telling me its the carbs so i kept working on them. I should have just swapped the carbs from the get go. @Mudflap: I agree 98 seems small. I am going to put different jets in and see what comes of it. ALSO: exhaust restriction!! smacks forehead should have checked that first. These have been sitting in a shed in mud dauber country for 8 years.... this could very much be my problem. I will check that next. So we are clear the bike is really running great until WOT. Starts fine idles fine runs fine up to 3/4 throttle. the bog is not too defined now not so sudden more of a waver than a shudder. I think that it would be fine for low speed riding, but for cruising down the back roads... i dont know. i will take it on a short ride today and see how we are looking. and check the exhaust. Thanks everyone.
	1

12-29-2018, 10:22 PM	#14
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	if WOT and bugs or stutters that would suggest the main jet is too small (others mentioned the 98 being too small confirms the theory?) You could swap CDI and coils over see if the issue follows or not.
	0