New SSR XF250 Refuses To Cold Start

[Codemaster99]

Hello,

Just purchased a new 2022 SSR XF250 and I need some help from those more knowledgeable than I. This bike seems cursed thus far.

Right out of the gate the gas gauge was faulty, got lucky as dealer took it back and fixed under warranty, or more or less what the dealer did was steal cluster off the other one that was in their lot as the other bike "magically" disappeared when I asked about it. No matter, with the cluster "replaced" its working as intended.

Shoulda knew something else was amiss when I asked the sales rep to start it and the bike started very hard for him, almost making him look foolish. When I go start this thing she just ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to start reliably in any shape or fashion to the point where it just kills the battery. It starts and runs when if feels like it but not when its expected and should.

Things Ive done to try to get this curse to start:

1. Kickstand is up when turning over. Id appreciate information how to disable or bypass this stupid feature to start the bike with the kickstand down, please advise.

2. Handle bar kill switch is in run position.


3. Fuel lever is in on position, also tried reserve position


4. Drained whatever gas dealer had in it from tank, lines, & carb. Doubt it got correct fuel as manual calls for 91 octane. Didn't trust dealer as all by this point (longer story) its got fresh 91 in it now

5. Checked spark. Spark is good

6. Choke fully pulled out in 80 degree weather. Also tried half choke and no choke when clearly getting flooded (smell the gas)

6.Verified carb bowl and lines are getting fuel.


7. Air cleaner smells of fuel


8. Few throttle pumps to shoot gas into carb and wait few min for it to vaporize then try starting. By some miracle of higher deity's, seems to work 20% of the time but she still wont run properly without more throttle till she warms up, choke off then runs and idles fine, and will restart and fire when warm, its just these super cold starts.

There is no reason why a brand new 250cc motorbike does not start after the first or second push of the button with the choke fully out on a cold start. I really don't want to fully pull and disassemble the carb I do feel its unnecessary but if I absolutely have to I can and will sonic bath clean. It will also not be going back to the dealer for anymore assistance. They are not somebody I want to deal with anymore. I just don't know enough about this bike.

I have done some forum searching and reviewed modification topics about this particular bike. I really don't want to get into modifying the bike too much if I can avoid it. I am mulling over either purchasing a new carburetor or a 6 Sigma Stage 1 kit at stock configurations to install.
What are your thoughts? any suggestions & help is appreciated.


-Code

[zero_dgz]

Hard cold starting is one of the telltale symptoms of a bad (read: probably nonexistent in this case) valve adjustment. I would start there before going crazy with other issues. Most of these Chinese bikes seem to leave the factory with zero valve clearance or possibly into the negatives, i.e. valves not fully closing when ostensibly released by the cam, and that'll cause you all kinds of problems.


Grab your feeler gauge and set both the intake and exhaust valves to 0.06mm or so. (That's 0.002" in Roman Catholic. Don't mix up inches and mm.) That's what I run on my Orion and it seems to work pretty alright. Opinions differ on what is the "correct" spec for various Chinese engines, but regardless of the number you arrive at, it should not be zero.

[flopsweat]

Originally Posted by zero_dgz

That's 0.002" in Roman Catholic.

[flopsweat]

My brand new TT250 had the valves set completely closed, from the factory. It'd start, but it was troublesome until I finally adjusted them. It was the first "wrenching" I ever did on a motorcycle, and super easy (30min job at this point).

[Codemaster99]

Great information. Im not much of a gear wrench person so Looking up videos on how to do this but im sure there's different style heads and im kinda in the dark on what exactly im doing to adjust the clearance.

Looks like i need to make sure the piston is top dead center but outside of that im not sure what video is for this specific bikes cam and valve configuration. Do I need bucket shims? Any links for a video to help would be appreciated

[Mikd]

You shouldn't need anything other than a feeler guage and a few basic tools (a feeler guage is just a couple bucks and available online or any local automotive parts store). These are very simple motors. There are several tutorials on this site with step by step instructions including pics or videos. You can do this.

[zero_dgz]

All of these screw tappet engines ultimately work the same way for valve adjustments. They are not bucket-and-shim designs, so you don't need to purchase new shims or anything.

I use the Harbor Freight feeler gauge and it works fine. Honestly, at least on my Orion the most time consuming part is making the inspection plugs accessible since the tank and side air guides are in the way and have to be removed, which necessitates pulling the seat and the rear plastics as well. On my Bashan (Hawk-alike) I can adjust the valves without having to remove anything but the side plastics.

The procedure is very simple. Start with the engine stone cold. Let it sit overnight before messing with it and don't try to start it for any reason prior to adjustment. Render accessible and remove the inspection plugs over both valves on top of the cylinder head, however that works on your bike. For the external hex style, I just wrap the hexagonal part in a shop towel and grab them with an adjustable wrench. Once you get them cracked loose you can unscrew them the rest of the way with your fingers.

Take out the flywheel inspection plug and the crank bolt plug on the left hand side of the engine. On most bikes these are slotted and the slots are actually the arc of a circle, so using a screwdriver on these will chew up the plastic but a quarter or a big washer held in a pair of pliers works well. Loosen the spark plug so you aren't fighting the engine's compression. Get a socket on the crank bolt, and slowly rotate the engine counterclockwise until the line on the flywheel with the "T" engraved next to it is aligned with the notch in the top of the flywheel inspection hole.

Here's a pitfall that everyone makes out to be more complicated than it is: You need to be at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke. Your four stroke engine actually has two top dead centers; one at the top of the compression stroke and one at the top of the exhaust stroke. You can tell which is which by watching the valve rocker arms as you turn the engine. At TDC on the compression stroke both valves will be closed so both the intake (towards the rear of bike) and exhaust (front of bike) valves will be raised fully. At TDC on the exhaust stroke the exhaust rocker arm will be lowered while the intake one will be raised.

Once you have the engine situated at TDC, just start sticking your feeler gauges between the top of the valve and the bottom of the little threaded thingy on the rocker arm. Pull up on the rocker gently to ensure that it is maximally extended and your gap isn't closed by the rocker resting on the top of the tappet via gravity.

I always start with my 0.06mm gauge since that's the clearance I want. If it won't fit, your gap is too small. If it fits, go up a size to see if that's actually your gap or if it's larger.

You can use smaller or larger sizes to figure out what the current gap is, but that is academic beyond determining if it is or is not 0.06mm. In your case, it certainly won't be. So how I do it is, loosen the lock nut on top of the adjuster (10mm usually) and unscrew the adjuster a little bit. Stick your 0.06mm gauge in the gap and lightly screw the adjuster down on it just using your fingers. Then hold the adjuster in place via the square part on top with a pair of needlenose pliers or similar and retighten the nut. You can get a fancy 3mm or whatever it is valve adjustment holder tool if you really feel like paying for one, but I've always just carefully used small pliers and it's worked fine for me for decades. The aim of the game is not to turn the threaded adjuster along with the nut. Once done you should be able to slip the feeler out and back in easily, but not fit in the one that's the next size up. If it won't go back in you turned the adjuster along with the nut and unintentionally narrowed the gap slightly.

That's it. Do that for both valves, put all the inspection plugs back in (finger tight + 1/8 turn or so is sufficient, don't reef on them) and don't forget to screw the spark plug back in...

Fire it up and make sure no oil is dribbling out past any of the inspection plugs. Then go ride it.

Inevitably, opinions vary on how often you should recheck the valves. After your initial break in period (opinions vary on how long that is, too) you should check them again as the gaps will tend to close especially when the engine is still new, as the back faces of the valves settle into their seats in the head.


My take on the break-in-oil-change argument is as follows: "600 mile" or however long break in rituals are bogus, at least for the purposes of "wearing in the crosshatching" and "seating the piston rings" that everyone on the internet parrots. Even at idle your engine reciprocates 15-20 times a second. Those mechanical interfaces are going to be as worn in as they will ever be within about the first 20 minutes of operation. Likewise, waiting until the end of that ritual for your initial oil change is silly for the same reason; the point of that is to get all the shavings from the break in as well as any crap left in there from the factory out of your crankcase. Therefore, your "break in" may as well just be a 20 minute test ride, at the end of which you may pop your first celebratory wheelie, and then change your oil immediately afterwards. It will come out with all the sparkly bits in it, which is normal and expected, and then you can fill it up with whatever quality motor oil you feel like using. Poke the valves again with your feeler gauge the next morning to see if the clearances have closed up at all. If so, adjust. If not, rock on. I use full synthetic Rotella T6. On new engines I recheck the valves at about 100 miles, then at 500, and after that I don't worry about it until the next oil change. I change the oil in my filterless Chinese bikes every 1500 miles.

[Thumper]

I totally agree with zero that this is the first thing to check

PLEASE tell us how tight the valves are. You can feel whether they are too tight even without adjustment.

The rockers should have discernible movement at TDC firing stroke. Not much, but they should toggle back and forth a teeny bit. You can feel it.

I have made it a practice to do this check before and after adjustment. Then check the gap... I start with a 0.001" feeler gauge and verify that it fits loosely (it should). Then I step up to 0.002", and continue. This way I know what the gap is before adjustment. I really want to know where it is and how it felt before I do any adjustment. I think it's good to have this hands on test burnt into my mind.

****If these valves are the problem, you should make sure that the dealership hears about this. If they didn't bother to check the valves during SETUP, this is on them.

It's their job, and they need to know this is a COMMON issue on NEW CG230 clones.

[buzz]

Yes valve adjustment is the 1st thing I would do, this site and the members know what their doing. Have been so helpful to me. Thanks Chinarider members.

[Codemaster99]

Wow holy cow what a post. My deepest gratitude to all here and zero. You guys are awesome and have gone above and beyond for me. Thank you very much

I will keep you all posted on my progress as I work. Will be soon.

Cheers

[jeffrey]

If it helps out a little your engine is a Suzki DR200 or TU250 clone so you can look up the valve specs for those engines.

[bigdano711]

I can confirm the 2023 Hawk 250 came with tight valves. I broke my valve clearance cherry on it.

[dh]

The xf250 engine is a clone of the tu250x. The carb on this bike was utilized on mid 2000 era Yamaha tw200. Plenty of videos on YouTube about that as well.

I would disconnect the kickstand safety switch at the kickstand. I do not like the valve adjustment tool (drywall screw) shown in this tutorial. I did this and dropped the screw inside the head. Getting it out was horrible.

I would wait and get the bike broke in before doing the sigma kit. You may want to remove the black cover on the top of the carb and ensure the vacuum diaphragm is clean and not pinched or creased, then reinstall. You can easily service the carb on this bike by loosening and rotating 45° to remove either the bowl or vacuum plate. No removal necessary.