Hawk 250 Front wheel wobble (spokes tighten)

mattman32100 · 07-13-2023, 05:53 PM

hey guys. figured i would come back here instead of facebook group.
i got a spoke torque wrench and i guess i must have messed up the front rim a little but bc now its wobbly when i ride. what are my options can i repair it or should i just get a new wheel. if new wheel where should i look for one?
thanks for the help

zero_dgz · 07-13-2023, 10:46 PM

It's basically impossible to permanently damage a rim just by messing with the spoke tension. You can get the tension wrong, yes, and potentially get the rim quite far out of true. But it's nothing you can't undo. You do not need to buy a new rim.

Grab one of those Harbor Freight wheel balancing stands and stick something to it with a magnet to use as a pointer so you can see how and where the rim is out of true, i.e. not straight. It's easy, albeit time consuming, to get the rim straight again just by messing with the spokes via trial and error.

Get the rim true again and your problems will most likely disappear, unless your wobble is unrelated to the whackness of the rim.

Also: Trying to torque all of your spokes to the same value is a fool's errand, since they're not all identical to each other. The correct torque is the one that's A) not loose and wiggly, and B) and does not result in pulling the rim out of true. It's also maddeningly difficult to get an accurate torque reading on anything other than spokes and spoke nipples that are absolutely clean and brand new, because grit and dirt in the threads will interfere with the torque measurement. If your spokes go "ding" if you tap them with a wrench or similar, they are tight enough. If they go "clunk," they're not.

wally · 07-24-2023, 08:14 PM

Also don't neglect to make at least some attempt at balancing the wheel, even if you just use the big brass style weights that attach to the spokes it makes a big difference.

Before it folded up, my factory front rim had almost 5 oz on it.

flopsweat · 07-25-2023, 11:37 AM

I'm about to do this myself. My front rim is not true and has slight vibration at certain speeds. Been debating just handing the shop my whole front wheel with tire to let them take care of it because it's been such a pain to me, I just want someone to do it correctly and not have to worry about it. $139 per hour, so that could be potentially be $280... Now I'm very much wondering about getting the $50 harbor freight stand and truing it myself.

Any recommendations on what size wheel weight to get? They have 1/4oz and 1/2oz, I would assume the 1/4oz would be better to dial it in more accurately.

Bill Hilly · 07-25-2023, 01:16 PM

As far as checking the rim, you can lift the bike, so the front tire is off the ground, and put a zip tie tightly around the fork , with the tongue of the zip tie trimmed to almost touch, and to be pointing at the rim, right at the edge of the rim. Then just spin the rim, and look for increases in the gap, or drag on the tie. May not be precise, but can definitely spot the trouble.

wally · 07-25-2023, 03:07 PM

I'd rather have 1/8 oz over 1/4 or 1/2 but they are a pain to get.

severely · 07-25-2023, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopsweat

I'm about to do this myself. My front rim is not true and has slight vibration at certain speeds. Been debating just handing the shop my whole front wheel with tire to let them take care of it because it's been such a pain to me, I just want someone to do it correctly and not have to worry about it. $139 per hour, so that could be potentially be $280... Now I'm very much wondering about getting the $50 harbor freight stand and truing it myself.

Any recommendations on what size wheel weight to get? They have 1/4oz and 1/2oz, I would assume the 1/4oz would be better to dial it in more accurately.

You don't really need to buy the wheel balancing stand as Bill Hilly said. Get your front wheel off the ground and remove the brake caliper and give it a spin. Use any marker you can see and mark the wheel high spots as it spins on both sides. You tube is your friend here. DON'T tighten spokes close to one another, about a 7 count to tighten next spoke is a good starting point. Good luck.

TominMO · 07-25-2023, 09:16 PM

flopsweat · 07-27-2023, 08:49 AM

I assume this means I don't necessarily need to bother with removing the entire tire again? I know of course it would be more precise with just the rim, but the thought of taking that tire off and on again is dreadful.

zero_dgz · 07-28-2023, 05:04 PM

I've never bothered to take the tire off to true a rim, unless I'm taking the tire off anyway, i.e. to change it or the tube or replace a broken spoke. Otherwise, you can leave it on.

Note that if you remove the tire and put it back on, you'll probably also have to balance the wheel again. TL;DR: it's all hassle, no benefit.

I have never used a weight larger than 1/4 ounce on my bike rims and usually only need two or three at most.

flopsweat · 07-31-2023, 09:11 AM

I'm beside myself with pride, because I DID IT! It was waaay easier than I had built it up to be, maybe about 2hrs from lifting the bike to a test ride. Couldn't find my tiny crescent wrench so I just used an adjustable wrench and took care to not mar the soft brass spoke nuts. After many youtubes, zip ties were my guide, I slowly improved the side-to-side run out, then onto the vertical, then went through and tightened all spokes, then went through and did it all again. Some spokes were much looser than I anticipated. Then the test ride up to 55mph went great, it made such a huge improvement in the slight bounces I'd get at 40-45mph. Finally I feel confident again for the 5hr ride downstate next weekend to take the ARC course yet again.

Also got my new IMS folding shifter lever put on, which feels great as it's a tighter fit than the oem lever so I'm really getting a better sense of how the gearbox actually feels.

07-13-2023, 05:53 PM	#1
mattman32100 Join Date: Jul 2023 Posts: 4	Hawk 250 Front wheel wobble (spokes tighten) hey guys. figured i would come back here instead of facebook group. i got a spoke torque wrench and i guess i must have messed up the front rim a little but bc now its wobbly when i ride. what are my options can i repair it or should i just get a new wheel. if new wheel where should i look for one? thanks for the help
	0

07-25-2023, 09:16 PM	#8
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,978	__________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Nope, finally retired. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	5

07-13-2023, 10:46 PM	#2
zero_dgz Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 281	It's basically impossible to permanently damage a rim just by messing with the spoke tension. You can get the tension wrong, yes, and potentially get the rim quite far out of true. But it's nothing you can't undo. You do not need to buy a new rim. Grab one of those Harbor Freight wheel balancing stands and stick something to it with a magnet to use as a pointer so you can see how and where the rim is out of true, i.e. not straight. It's easy, albeit time consuming, to get the rim straight again just by messing with the spokes via trial and error. Get the rim true again and your problems will most likely disappear, unless your wobble is unrelated to the whackness of the rim. Also: Trying to torque all of your spokes to the same value is a fool's errand, since they're not all identical to each other. The correct torque is the one that's A) not loose and wiggly, and B) and does not result in pulling the rim out of true. It's also maddeningly difficult to get an accurate torque reading on anything other than spokes and spoke nipples that are absolutely clean and brand new, because grit and dirt in the threads will interfere with the torque measurement. If your spokes go "ding" if you tap them with a wrench or similar, they are tight enough. If they go "clunk," they're not.
	1

07-24-2023, 08:14 PM	#3
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 55	Also don't neglect to make at least some attempt at balancing the wheel, even if you just use the big brass style weights that attach to the spokes it makes a big difference. Before it folded up, my factory front rim had almost 5 oz on it.
	0

07-25-2023, 11:37 AM	#4
flopsweat Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: The burbs of Chicago Posts: 250	I'm about to do this myself. My front rim is not true and has slight vibration at certain speeds. Been debating just handing the shop my whole front wheel with tire to let them take care of it because it's been such a pain to me, I just want someone to do it correctly and not have to worry about it. $139 per hour, so that could be potentially be $280... Now I'm very much wondering about getting the $50 harbor freight stand and truing it myself. Any recommendations on what size wheel weight to get? They have 1/4oz and 1/2oz, I would assume the 1/4oz would be better to dial it in more accurately.
	0

07-25-2023, 01:16 PM	#5
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,003	As far as checking the rim, you can lift the bike, so the front tire is off the ground, and put a zip tie tightly around the fork , with the tongue of the zip tie trimmed to almost touch, and to be pointing at the rim, right at the edge of the rim. Then just spin the rim, and look for increases in the gap, or drag on the tie. May not be precise, but can definitely spot the trouble.
	2

07-25-2023, 03:07 PM	#6
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 55	I'd rather have 1/8 oz over 1/4 or 1/2 but they are a pain to get.
	1

07-27-2023, 08:49 AM	#9
flopsweat Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: The burbs of Chicago Posts: 250	I assume this means I don't necessarily need to bother with removing the entire tire again? I know of course it would be more precise with just the rim, but the thought of taking that tire off and on again is dreadful.
	1

07-28-2023, 05:04 PM	#10
zero_dgz Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 281	I've never bothered to take the tire off to true a rim, unless I'm taking the tire off anyway, i.e. to change it or the tube or replace a broken spoke. Otherwise, you can leave it on. Note that if you remove the tire and put it back on, you'll probably also have to balance the wheel again. TL;DR: it's all hassle, no benefit. I have never used a weight larger than 1/4 ounce on my bike rims and usually only need two or three at most.
	1

07-31-2023, 09:11 AM	#11
flopsweat Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: The burbs of Chicago Posts: 250	I'm beside myself with pride, because I DID IT! It was waaay easier than I had built it up to be, maybe about 2hrs from lifting the bike to a test ride. Couldn't find my tiny crescent wrench so I just used an adjustable wrench and took care to not mar the soft brass spoke nuts. After many youtubes, zip ties were my guide, I slowly improved the side-to-side run out, then onto the vertical, then went through and tightened all spokes, then went through and did it all again. Some spokes were much looser than I anticipated. Then the test ride up to 55mph went great, it made such a huge improvement in the slight bounces I'd get at 40-45mph. Finally I feel confident again for the 5hr ride downstate next weekend to take the ARC course yet again. Also got my new IMS folding shifter lever put on, which feels great as it's a tighter fit than the oem lever so I'm really getting a better sense of how the gearbox actually feels.
	3