05-17-2020, 05:14 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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Project: Hawk Stage II - Head Work and Nibbi
The plan is to port (including matching) both intake and exhaust, polish the exhaust, mill down for compression bump, and install a Nibbi PE30.
I am using the "improved" Rato CGP head that is equipped on the Brozz and TT250, among others. I will be employing the use of A.P.E. Racing for my head work. My project was conceived after exhaustive reading both here and elsewhere and was originally thrust into light in the Hawk 250 Enduro Owners Group on Facebook. I would like to share here as well, especially considering that the largest part of the technical knowledge required for this project has been gleaned from members and projects right here on Chinariders. I would also like to share a highly inspirational article on serious CG performance: How to set a land speed record on a $3,200 motorcycle. Am I Bonneville bound? I'll never tell! My current inventory of project parts... Brozz Head and Gasket: https://shop.brozz250.com/eshopprod_...r_Assembly.htm OEM Style Gasket: https://ebay.us/VnECnk Nibbi PE30 Carburetor: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07P2VY8NC Nibbi Intake Adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07PCN9MQW Generic 30mm CG Intake Adapter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JG3M1T5 Nibbi Pod Filter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07KQZMVF3 UNI Pod Filter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000N5UCEG Jet Kit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B077BVZVQZ Other miscellaneous items still yet to be purchased for this project are fuel line, fuel filters, torque wrench, 16T sprocket, calipers, extra plugs for tuning, and filter oil.
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG Last edited by Baskt_Case; 05-19-2020 at 01:31 AM. |
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05-17-2020, 08:56 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,109
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That's not an EGR port. Just so you know. That port is for the air injection. Not one of these bikes has EGR.
Glad that my own efforts have inspired you forward, as have those of JerryHawk250 and a couple others. That's the whole point of this forum. Surprised you haven't looked into a camshaft as well. One of the biggest limitations to these CG engines making power is the camshaft. Once you go past 7500 rpm, the power delivery still falls off pretty quickly. Even my own bike will usually top out right at 8000rpm in 5th. Honestly, that "improved" head could probably make great use of the Ressalto cam profile I picked for my bike with just a little cleanup work. In any case, I am subscribing to this thread. I look forward to the progress and your impressions of the results. You should take a moment to install and get the PE30 running on the stock head just for a comparison. It would be nice to have an opinion of the PE30 without port work.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 Last edited by Megadan; 05-17-2020 at 10:23 AM. |
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05-17-2020, 11:59 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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Thanks Dan, my blunder for perpetuating the EGR myth. It doesn't help that CSC specifies it as such in their own documentation, tutorials, and parts listings. Add that to the fact that alot of us in less restrictive parts of the country have never had the pleasure of physically dealing with an emissions equipped Chinabike.
Indeed, I would not be at my current point of progress in my endeavors without the prior countless hours of research, experimentation, and work performed by you and many others here on the forum. I am very grateful and only hope to expand the knowledge base, and have alot of fun doing it! Ahh yes, the cam. I am eagerly following your thread for your results and impressions. It is definitely a possiblity for the future, perhaps a "Stage III" project. My plate is comfortably full at the moment with just the head and carb upgrade. However, I am definitely watching you closely, especially since you have started talking about a 32mm carb. Have you read the article from CCW that I linked above? Upon my initial inspection of the CGP head, I was quite pleased with the factory port profiles compared to my stock head. Its not a massive difference, but plainly visible. Others have suggested the same as you, that just some touch-up work and matching alone would probably yield a significant improvement over my stock head. However, I am "committed" at this point, my heart is set on professional head work. I just wanna see where this goes. In regards to a future possible cam upgrade, heavier valve springs are definitely on the table with the builder. Originally I was going to wait to install the carb simultaneously with the head but as you and one other individual have pointed out, it would be nice to quantify the gains of the carb and head separately. So carb installation will commence soon! -Aaron
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG |
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05-17-2020, 04:41 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,109
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Yeah, I read it a couple of years ago. It's what actually inspired me to take it further with the head work, cam, and carb. I won't be trying to go 90mph, but I would love the added acceleration and some more high rpm power.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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05-19-2020, 12:35 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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So today I was able to nail down specifics with the engine builder regarding exactly what work will be performed. I should have the head shipped out in the next day or two.
I will be using A.P.E. Racing in Rosamond, CA. These guys didn't even flinch when I said it was a CG motor. Communication with them has been nothing short of professional.
$439 Shipped (both ways) For comparison, they will sell you a brand new ready-to-race CRF250 head for $945 + Shipping.
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG |
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05-19-2020, 10:40 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PNW
Posts: 984
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I would want to get some objective and quantifiable performance measures of my motor to do a comparison of before and after. Dyno?
Last edited by China Rider 27; 05-19-2020 at 12:04 PM. |
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05-19-2020, 12:08 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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Quote:
First graph is the entire 30 mile run. 15 miles out, 15 miles back. You can see my turnaround in the middle, and the results of traveling both against and with the wind. Second graph notes my worst speed during the entire trip, at the highest elevation, pushing against the wind.
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG |
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05-19-2020, 12:38 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,109
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You will definitely have the most prepped head of anybody on this site. That is race level stuff through and through and not the typical budget DIY job.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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05-19-2020, 01:35 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 412
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Quote:
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2020 Tao TBR7 9.3:1 PnP head CRF230F exhaust 4 degree advance key 290 degree cam Nibbi PE30 and cone filter Front fork brace |
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05-19-2020, 01:46 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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Its just called Speedometer GPS in the Google Play Store
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...speedometergps
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG |
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05-19-2020, 02:17 PM | #11 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Houma, La.
Posts: 11,710
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Quote:
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2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel |
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05-19-2020, 05:42 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PNW
Posts: 984
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Quote:
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05-19-2020, 06:10 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,109
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Quote:
My bike with it's current gearing, which with all factors involved is essentially running the equivalent of a 17 front 45 rear sprocket, on flat ground and zero wind will hit 74 mph at 8000rpm, and then it runs out of steam. If I re-install my taller rear sprocket, which would be the equivalent of dropping 2 teeth in the rear, it will hit 79mph... at 8000rpm. With a 17 front and 50 rear equivalent, it did 67mph, at..... 8000RPM! Basically the engine runs out of cam. It can roar to 8000, and the power just falls off too fast and it can't pull anymore. With that taller rear sprocket you can really feel where the power curve peaks too. That 79mph is probably just about all it had to give with my big fat butt on it, and it took the starts aligning and the gods smiling for that run to happen. Toss an even taller sprocket on there and somebody like Jerry's size and it might even surpass 80, but I can almost promise you it will halt all progress at right about 8000rpm. Even with the sprocket combination I am running I still can't hit 74 if there is a decent head wind. In fact, the best I can pull with a decently strong head wind is 65-70mph, which is dead smack on the peak power RPM range. That actually happened to me today just a couple of hours ago. 8-12mph winds out of the north west. tapped out at 70mph. That is the reason I am installing a cam, I want to shift the peak power up and broaden the high rpm power. Even then, I still won't gear it any taller than I have it now. I just wish my flywheel puller would show the hell up.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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05-19-2020, 06:48 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PNW
Posts: 984
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[QUOTE=Megadan;338111]Top speed is not really a good quantifier on these bikes unless you really gear them up, and I can explain why.
Yes I agree and certainly no comparison between two different bikes. Searching for a quantitative measure though, maybe it can tell us something about performance modification comparison on one bike if we have one or two variables in the absence of a better measurement such as a dyno? |
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05-19-2020, 07:22 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Springfield, KY
Posts: 83
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Quote:
This is precisely why I started on this project in the first place. I am after more highway cruising power. Terminal velocity is fun, but the ability to maintain respectable cruising speeds uphill and/or into the wind is most important to me. I live in rural central Kentucky, a.k.a. "hill country" and most travel around here is on 55mph state highways. Close examination of those graphs will show precisely the effect of elevation changes. It wont be a horsepower number but rather a recorded speed on a given incline. It will be a pretty satisfactory metric for me. Especially when I start comparing back to back results at the same exact geographic location. Sure, I cant control wind or temp, so averaging multiple runs will be the best I can do but I'm pretty sure its going to illustrate "real world" gains or losses.
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2018 Hawk - Nibbi PE30, Nibbi Intake, UNI Filter, Ebay Exhaust, NGK 4929 (non-Iridium), 428 D.I.D. X-Ring, 15/40 Sprockets, Walmart AGM Battery, IMS Shifter, Full LED Lighting, Digital Cluster, CSC Swingarm Pin, Modified Chain Adjusters, Upgraded Wheel Bearings ** MPH Cruise, ** MPG |
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