|
![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,578
|
Charging system testing- weak starter? just clicking? Is it the battery?
Does your bike just "click" when you press the starter button? Or does the starter motor weakly turn the engine over and it fails to fire up?
Maybe you wonder if your charging system is not maintaining the battery? Do you need a voltage regulator? Do you need a new stator?? Here are a few things to test: If you haven't adjusted the valves, it's not a bad idea to do this first. Covered elsewhere...The process is identical for any of these 4 stroke engines, but clearance on pushrod engines should be 0.003-0.005" exhaust, 0.002-0.003" intake: https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...4&postcount=21 Also, wiring connections can get oxidized or loose. The battery terminal connections, ground wire on the engine (from the battery), wires connected to the starter solenoid, and the thick wire connected to the starter can be wire brushed or polished with steel wool, and reconnected. If you follow the thick wire back from the starter, it is connected to the solenoid. The other thick wire on the solenoid goes to the battery positive terminal. FYI, the starter solenoid/relay just connects these two wires to run the starter (it's a high amperage device). You can bypass the starter solenoid to verify that it isn't the problem. You can use a screwdriver or short heavy wire to connect those two heavy wires connected to the solenoid. Put it in neutral first! If the key is turned on, it may start when you do this. If the starter turns the engine rapidly, but it just isn't firing up, it could be spark or gas issue, but if it ran OK before and the starter just isn't cranking it strongly, you may have a weak charging system resulting in low battery charge, dead or bad battery, or you just need a charge. If you don't already have one, BUY A MULTIMETER. You NEED one to test your battery, and to test your charging system. If you can kick start it, or jump start it from a car or another motorcycle battery and it turns rapidly and starts, GREAT. While it is running, USE THE MULTIMETER (set to DC voltage) to test the charging system: Connect the multimeter to the battery terminals-red to red (pos) and black to black (Neg/ground) and you should see MORE than 14 volts pushing onto the battery at ~1500-1700rpm. If it started with a jump, and the charging system checks out, then charge the battery. A floating battery maintainer/charger costs about $35. RESTING BATTERY TEST (key turned OFF): AFTER charging, what is the resting battery voltage? It should be at least close to 13V for a healthy battery. If it is less, disconnect the ground terminal on the battery and test it again. Did the voltage go up? If so, your bike is constantly draining the battery (short somewhere? bad switch?). A BAD battery (grounding out inside) can suck the voltage and prevent starting. It won't charge if this is the case, and will overheat your charger (charger should show the ground fault, like red light flashing or something). This is actually pretty rare unless it's an old battery, maybe you bought a barn find or the bike hasn't been run, but left out and neglected for a year or two. If the valves are adjusted, and the bike has been running with a good spark plug and the charging system is good, even a WEAK BATTERY can usually start the bike. Batteries do eventually fail of course. If it can't charge to and hold a charge of ~12.5V overnight, replace it. As mentioned above, if you can kick start, or jump start the bike and it starts easily, then charge the battery and do the resting battery test above. If the charging system is not pushing 14V or more into the battery at 1500-1700rpm, then your charging system is not up to snuff. It could be the rectifier/regulator, or it could be a weak stator. Loose wires or oxidized wires can cause this too. If the resting battery voltage test is the same with/without the negative ground connected but the charging system isn't pushing 14+ volts when running, then you will need to troubleshoot the charging system.
__________________
-NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross) Last edited by Thumper; 05-17-2024 at 10:22 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Central VA
Posts: 1,259
|
Great info.. I recently diagnosed a failed starter on my Beta.. it would click once and then nothing. The battery would quickly drain in addition to the power wire from the starter solenoid getting hot. I initially thought it was the battery but found the starter as the culprit once I opened i removed and tried to turn the armature and it was grinding. After opening it up I found several magnets pulverized inside. Bought a knockoff ktm starter on Amazon, replaced the case and reused the original armature and front cover and voila started right up.
The other starting issue I've encountered was on my Honda Fury related to starting when hot it would crank a couple times and not start. The fix for that was a secondary ground for this known issue.
__________________
2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2018 VStrom 1000 XT Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,578
|
My 6 speed Templar X starter had a short. It cranked weakly, even with a charged battery, or a jump. These symptoms made me wonder what was going on inside that new starter
![]() I took it apart and found that the rotor windings armature was grazing a metal plate that the brushes mounted on. There was blackened evidence of the short on the plate and the tip of the armature...I used a dremel to shave both sides away from each other, cleaned and reassembled the starter with lube on both ends, and the thing worked perfectly.
__________________
-NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross) |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Central VA
Posts: 1,259
|
Quote:
__________________
2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2018 VStrom 1000 XT Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 609
|
![]() Quote:
At the end of every ride I plug it in and leave it on until next time I ride. It always shows an over-charge immediately following a ride and discharges the battery a small amount then charges it until at optimum long term holding charge holding it there until next ride. This is how I have gotten flawless years of service from the stock OEM battery that came with the Templar X 250. Because I now have to leave the bike at work away from the charger/maintainer for twelve hour shifts, I have since added battery operated nipple clamps (tiny lithium smart jump starter) to my arsenal and take it with me everywhere in the bottom of my backpack. I have never had to use it at all so far, knock on wood. But if I do I am fully prepared not to need a tow, or on the road service call. Boy scout motto always be prepared. The rest of the post is also good information. ![]()
__________________
2022 1/2 Templar X 250 - 6 gear model - 13 Front / 40 Rear Sprockets - #42 / #120 Jets - 1mm thick nitrile O-ring needle shim (removed) - Kenda K761 Dual Sport Tires - Sedona Standard Thickness Inner Tubes - Stock OEM battery, carburetor, spark plug still going strong - https://youtu.be/dhAYEKH-jFQ |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,578
|
Quote:
The charging system was still working great. Pushing the starter button, on the other hand, didn't activate the starter very well, and put a serious drain on the battery ![]()
__________________
-NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross) Last edited by Thumper; 04-12-2024 at 07:57 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Ohio Valley
Posts: 710
|
Quote:
__________________
2022 Hawk 250 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Western PA
Posts: 283
|
Quote:
My starter is whirring and clicking, but not engaging. I've been going through testing to isolate the problem. At rest my battery is over 13 V. While running, over 14. Kickstart works. Wires around battery and starter appear to be in good shape as do the connections. Little bit of corrosion at the positive terminal.
__________________
2022 Hawk DLX EFI * 17T Front / 47T Rear / 428 x-ring chain * Kenda K-760 front + rear * Banjo brake light switch * LED headlight + front turn signals * Custom cutting board skid plate * Debadged (I don't like to brag about the superior strength!) * Top speed, GPS verified, as equipped: 68 mph (so far) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,578
|
Quote:
The solenoid just connects those two heavy wires connected to the solenoid when you press the starter button. Bypassing the solenoid means connecting those two heavy wires (AT the solenoid), bypassing the solenoid switch inside the thing. Bypass the solenoid-If you connect those two heavy wires with a short heavy wire (or screwdriver if the poles aren't separated by a tall barrier), the starter should be getting the 13V directly from the positive pole on the battery (test as described below). The body of the starter serves as ground (it is bolted to the engine). Pressing the starter button does the same thing- connects the positive line from the battery to the heavy lead that goes to the starter. You can test the solenoid function by checking that the 13V is getting passed to the starter input lead (bolted to the starter) when you press the starter button. The heavy wire AT the starter should have 12-13V when you do this. Do you here a click from the solenoid?
__________________
-NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,578
|
I forgot to address this. If you can hear the starter motor freely spinning, then the starter is not connecting to the starter gear. Remove the starter and inspect the business end of the starter where the gear is. Is it damaged?
The gear should engage the gearing that connects to a gear on the crankshaft (stator side). I have not gotten into this so another member will have to chime in on checking this linkage. You can actually verify that the starter is spining when you have it out. While it is out, power it via the input 12V connector and ground the body to the battery to "turn on" the starter motor. Hold it firmly... lots of torque!
__________________
-NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross) Last edited by Thumper; 08-10-2024 at 02:21 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Join Date: May 2024
Location: US Gulf Coast
Posts: 21
|
Great Post
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 347
|
A thicker wire is probably better but depending on the battery and it’s ability to handle the connections is, or can be a problem. I still think corrosion or loose connections at the battery posts are the problem. Just thinking out loud reading post #8…also post #1 mentions it…
|
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 9
|
I totally agree with you! A thicker wire might seem like a good idea, but it's not a guarantee to fix the issue. The battery's capacity to handle the connections is a crucial factor to consider. And I'm with you, corrosion or loose connections at the battery posts are likely the root of the problem.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Western PA
Posts: 283
|
I pulled the body panels, seat, tank and headlight so I could scour over the wiring harness and connections. All seems well.
I pulled the starter. The spline end does not appear damaged. When I run jumper cables from the battery to the starter directly, I only get sparks at the post on the starter. No motion from the starter at all. Still measuring 13v from the battery.
__________________
2022 Hawk DLX EFI * 17T Front / 47T Rear / 428 x-ring chain * Kenda K-760 front + rear * Banjo brake light switch * LED headlight + front turn signals * Custom cutting board skid plate * Debadged (I don't like to brag about the superior strength!) * Top speed, GPS verified, as equipped: 68 mph (so far) |
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
|
|