Thoughts on Government run healthcare. Your Opinion.

[katoranger]

Since we got on the subject in the crash video thread I would like to get one going about Government Run/Socialized/Single Payer etc health care.

I don't think our current system in the US is perfect, but from what I hear is better than alot of other countries.

In the era of the government care proposals in the US I think this is a good subject to discuss. We need the input of the many Canadians and Europeans members here.

I am young a 32 years old, many members here are younger and older. We see things differently. Don't be afraid to say what you think. Please leave out the political parties and keep it civil.

FastDoc since you are a doctor we need your input too.

[Jim]

I think the concept is good, but in many cases implementation is bad. Then again, a small government is usually probably ideal, but our societies are too complex nowadays it seems to leave the governments hand out of the cookie jar. Health care is important though, and it should be available to everyone, no matter how much, or how little money they have.

[FastDoc]

A quick factoid on the Chinese system.

I heard on the radio this morning that there is a large deficiency of WOMEN of marrying/childbearing age (what's that in China, 12?)

Why is that?

China caps the number of children its citizens can have at one. Chinese culture values boys over girls, and encourages abortion. Last I checked live births shold be something like 50/50. (Actually there are more females born than males; some small in-utero advantage). In China it's more like 119 males/100 females. So how many women were murdered? Talk about genocide! Where are all the Amnesty International people on this topic? Heck, Greenpeace would not let you kill a single baby whale, much less half a race.

I'm happy to ride their cheap bikes, but I don't want our country to ever have anything in common with this government. Someday, we will be at war with them. They will lose.

[katoranger]

Originally Posted by Jim

I think the concept is good, but in many cases implementation is bad. Then again, a small government is usually probably ideal, but our societies are too complex nowadays it seems to leave the governments hand out of the cookie jar. Health care is important though, and it should be available to everyone, no matter how much, or how little money they have.

I agree with you for the most part. In the US healthcare is available to everyone including illegals. Its called the emergency room. We have programs to provide for people of low income too. We are getting places called minute clinics to take care of things like colds/flu etc. Its a simple pay $20 and get a prescription.

I am not really sure how it works in Canada and from the mods here I already got that it varies by province.

What we are told here is that there is long waits to see a doctor and lesser quality care.

It is hard to verify unless someone has first hand experience. I don't want Michael Moore's version.

[TurboT]

I think whatever system you have running, their is going to be deficiencies and strong points.

Nobody is ever refused care in Canada, you just might have to wait for things if it's deemed 'non-emergency' like a hip or knee replacement. That is of course if it's an age related problem and not a work accident. So if I'm 65 and need a knee because mine is wore out, I'm less likely to have it done as quick as per say me, being 35 and hurt it on the job.(example) They want me fixed and back working to pay taxes before Mr. 65 who just aged his knee out and is probably retired.

Where our issues have come to play is in the General Practioner. There is less and less of them around, mainly because our government has capped what they can charge out of a single office, so how many patients they can see in a day. The former government did this, not the current one, but it's never been changed. So ultimately, not a lot of new grad doctors want to go into General Practise, as they'll make more money doing other things.. so our front line is a bit understaffed.

...and don't get me started on health care unions.

[TeamCheap]

WOW too big of a subject really but....

First keep government out of it for the most part.

Second maybe stop the mexicans from using our healthcare system for free so its much less of a burden on the rest of us.
Right now anyone anywhere in the states can go into an emergency room and get treatment which is good and that as it should be but illegal aliens that are here draining the system would be a good place to stop the abuse.

It seems to me that at one time healthcare was like most things you have a problem you go to the DOC, get treatment and pay your bill kind of like eating at a restaurant.Order your food, eat your food and pay the bill.

but now everyone wants a free ride without having to pay so why stop there I want a luxury car so I should have one given to me payed for by the government and how about a nice big ranch sitting on 1000 acres or a beach house.

I thought healthcare more or less started as a benefit to intice employees to work at certain companies and such but now it has morphed into a huge mess.

I'd like to see the whole healthcare insurance system done away with and go to a personal healthcare savings program and then and only then have health insurance for the truly catastophic things.

The rest of the normal medical costs would fall on the people using the service and without all the health insurance to get in the way and run up the costs more people could actually afford it.

Health insurance can add about 30 percent or so to the cost of the exact same care over the cost of paying with cash.Now theres a savings in healthcare cost.

Health insurance has done more damage than good.It has driven up the cost of healthcare to the point where you need to have it but having and using it drives up costs so you need it more and it looks like we are near the breaking point.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by katoranger

I agree with you for the most part. In the US healthcare is available to everyone including illegals. Its called the emergency room.

Yes, but I'm not referring to this sort of situation, like a gunshot wound or workplace accident. I am thinking more along the lines of disease treatment and so on. The emergency room isn't for treating cancer, and I assume, though without any experience or statistics, that the treatment for things like this are very expensive, and out of the price range of average-joe (even if you deduct 30% as TeamCheap is talking about).

I feel better paying for healthcare that covers everyone who might need it, then I do paying for our provincially monopolized auto-insurance and paying more so the repeated aggressive or outright bad drivers can continue driving.

If anyone hasn't seen the movie John-Q, I'd recommend it, most of Denzel Washingtons movies are good and this one is, and on topic.

Also with national healthcare, it becomes in the best interest of everyone, to keep everyone healthy. The more people we give lung-cancer to by having them get addicted by smoking in our society, the more we pay to try and treat them. It sort of encourages healthier living to the whole society.

[TurboT]

A smoking reference! My favourite!

I'd like the government to refund me the tax money they've collected off me for every cigarette pack I've bought in my life. EVERY cent they collected, plus the mean average bank interest collected over that period of time as well. I want it in an account there solely for my health care costs associated with smoking related diseases, should they arise.. and leave me to pay for those costs out of that account should something happen.

It drives me crazy to think that cigarette companies can be huge, rich enterprises selling a product the government collects 5 times the value on themselves through taxation. If the tobacco company is rich from the sales, the government is richer through taxation. I don't BUY the fact our healthcare costs are too high because of smokers, I say smokers are subsidizing healthcare in general and if not for that revenue our healthcare would be hurting more. There is a reason this product has not been outlawed, it's because the government is making too much money off the addiction of this product themselves. I noticed the governments of Canada dropped their lawsuits against the tobacco companies, and I'm for one was wondering how long it'd take somoene to sue the government for profiting through taxation on the very product they sued a company over!

[Jim]

Originally Posted by TurboT

There is a reason this product has not been outlawed, it's because the government is making too much money off the addiction of this product themselves

I agree, but I didn't intend to sidetrack this topic with the mention of smoking. If we want to continue on this tangent we should start a new topic.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Jim

I agree, but I didn't intend to sidetrack this topic with the mention of smoking. If we want to continue on this tangent we should start a new topic.

You are right of course. Got myserlf going there.

[Weldangrind]

katoranger, the Canadian healthcare system has the same benefit across the country (at least in theory). Where it differs from Province to Province is in the fee structure and administration. In BC, my family of four pays $114.00 per month, and that's a mandatory health insurance fee. It covers everything related to treatment and diagnosis, but does not cover prescriptions and ambulance rides.

My wife and I have insurance that is provided by our employers, but it isn't needed for much in terms of healthcare; it is a huge benefit for prescription drugs and out-of-country travel.

BTW, out healthcare system does not include dental or visioncare, except as they may be related to emergency surgery. Also, the BC healthcare system pays for one eye exam every 24 months.

It's a good system for the most part, and it's affordable. It became frustrating when my wife kept getting bumped for open heart surgery to repair a hole (that's an atrial septal defect to you, Doc). The process took over six months, because emergency heart attacks would occur during the time my wife was booked, so the surgeons would cancel my wife's appointment. You can imagine how disruptive that is; I'd take the time off from work, arrange child care, make the trip to the city that has the facility, etc. There is nothing you can do about it, except write to your MLA (our version of a Senator).

It all worked out, and I'm very thankful. This past November marked seven years since her surgery. The care was top-notch.

[katoranger]

WG, Thanks for that input. So it isn't "Free" like they try to make so many believe here. You are really paying a premium too.

My daughter had her atrial septal defect fixed too. She was 5 months old. The difference was they decided to do the surgery and was scheduled and done within a month. No waiting.

I tore my ACL and the same thing. Doctor wanted to see a MRI. I had it done the same day he prescribed it. Surgery the same month.

Now with my insurance we are responsible for a portion of the expense. The ACL cost me about $2K.

Fortunately since my youngest is permanently disabled and consider medically fragile she qualifies for state insurance and they pay whatever my insurance does not. So in a way we have government healthcare. It is only really because of a "castrophic event".

Jim, I agree with the ER as not for long term care of cancer and other illnesses that can drain a family financially. This is where I feel our system is lacking.

Families are dealt a real blow first with a loved one being diagnosed and then they get the bill. Some insurance companies cover more. Some don't.


I like private insurance. I think that the government role may be to provide may tax incentives to assist those in paying premiums and also the possibility of vouchers to pay premiums for low income families.

That in my opinion would be better than a government option.

[katoranger]

This is going good.

A few concerns have been verified to me. Possible long waits for service, rationed care, lack of doctors, and a cap on practice.

Lets keep this going. I am getting good input. It seems to me that in Canada as long as your young and healthy and only need emergency care its great.

My Mother may have to wait months/years to see a cardiologist if she lived in Canada.

[MICRider]

The fee for health care in Canada has been waived in some provinces... I paid health care premiums up until last January, then they stopped charging them here in Alberta. I think I was paying about $120 a month for a family of 3. Like W&G said though, our healthcare doesn't cover glasses, dental, or prescriptions. Luckily, my employer has programs in place for all of those so I only pay a percentage.

There is some abuse of the system, but it would be pretty hard to avoid, policing can be difficult. A lot of our doctors come from out of the country as doctors trained here can make much more money abroad. I have heard that a lot of doctors trained here actually end up moving to the States because it is more lucrative.

Our wait times can be lengthy for elective surgery (which basically means non emergency), though a life and death situation will get you quick care (usually). The time to get some tests done is quite lengthy too, my dad needed a scan done on his head, I think it was an MRI and the wait times were so lengthy (6 months) that he paid a private clinic to have it done sooner. Though, I think if the doctors suspected that it was life threatening they could have fast tracked it.

Pros and cons to all systems it seems.

[katoranger]

So he paid twice for that MRI. Once in the taxes he paid and then again out of pocket.

It seems to me that want the Canadian government provides is catostrophic coverage and leaves the little things up to the employers and individuals some. The down side is mainly long waits unless its an emergency.

We too have alot of foreign doctors that can't speak english. Your not alone. I don't think I have met any Canadian doctors here.