Vader Big Bore Kit

[Themanoz]

Hey guys, I've been using this site as a reference for a while now. Finally decided to join in on the fun! So I have a Vader/Baodiao 125cc grom clone. I have been doing some work on it here and there, mainly power upgrades to keep up with traffic in busy Southern California aka 60 mph comfortably. So far, I have installed the mikuni 26mm carb, 17t front sprocket, and aftermarket exhaust w/ gutted cat. Top speed was 60 mph exactly so far! Now I'm looking for a big bore kit as a next step.

Here are my 2 options that I have found:

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/


So my question is: what is the wrist pin diameter on these engines? My research hasn't given solid results. The 141cc bore requires a 14mm pin and the 146cc bore requires a 13mm pin. Do you guys think it would be possible to fit a 14mm piston with the 146cc kit? On another site, it says the 146cc kit has a 14mm option (https://tboltusa.com/store/tbparts-r...ines-p-55.html)

On a separate note, would this cam fit in the head?

https://tboltusa.com/store/race-cam-...ds-p-2482.html

I know this is long, just need some input! Thanks guys.

[Themanoz]

I found my answer guys. I feel kind of dumb but it's also a learning experience. The difference with the 2 kits is in the stroke measurements. The cylinder is exactly the same. The 146cc kit is for a 57mm stroke engine which gives it a 146cc displacement with the new 57mm bore, the only difference is the 13mm wrist pin. The 141cc kit is for a 55mm stroke which gives it a 141cc displacement with the 57mm bore, with the 14mm wrist pin. I also found that the vader engine is a variant of the Lifan 125cc (engine no. 1P54FMI). This engine has a 54mm x 54mm bore and stroke AND the 14mm wrist pin. So the 141cc bore kit should fit, as I have seen other users with the vader on this forum with this kit as well. However, since it's a 54mm stroke, it will only give you 138cc.

Still need some guidance on that cam though if anyone has some inputs on that!

It looks like the vaders have the big valve YX heads on them so the cam should work. The kit I showed comes with new valve springs as well so it should work nicely with the larger lobes on the cam.

[loganlexow]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

Hey guys, I've been using this site as a reference for a while now. Finally decided to join in on the fun! So I have a Vader/Baodiao 125cc grom clone. I have been doing some work on it here and there, mainly power upgrades to keep up with traffic in busy Southern California aka 60 mph comfortably. So far, I have installed the mikuni 26mm carb, 17t front sprocket, and aftermarket exhaust w/ gutted cat. Top speed was 60 mph exactly so far! Now I'm looking for a big bore kit as a next step.

Here are my 2 options that I have found:

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/


So my question is: what is the wrist pin diameter on these engines? My research hasn't given solid results. The 141cc bore requires a 14mm pin and the 146cc bore requires a 13mm pin. Do you guys think it would be possible to fit a 14mm piston with the 146cc kit? On another site, it says the 146cc kit has a 14mm option (https://tboltusa.com/store/tbparts-r...ines-p-55.html)

On a separate note, would this cam fit in the head?

https://tboltusa.com/store/race-cam-...ds-p-2482.html

I know this is long, just need some input! Thanks guys.

I know this is old but I'm wondering if you ended up doing either of these kits and cam? I'm in the same train of thought and looking for more power on my Vader.

[culcune]

I wish I had caught this thread earlier for the first guy--if So. Cal means the L.A. area, I would have directed him to Kronik Racing in Simi Valley, California.

Actually, they sell Vaders and pitbikes and all kinds of power adders, up to and including 190cc engines for them, and are not ashamed to be dealing in Chinese bikes in So. California, no less. I would give them a call to see what parts they have for you. They don't really ship bikes other than locally, but they would ship parts, not to mention, offer advice backed by being in business for several years.

http://www.kronikracing.com/

[Whisky]

You would be better off going with the zs190. It's a 5 speed.

[wheelbender6]

Many riders prefer the tinkering involved in adding a big block kit over installing a crate motor. To each his own.

[Whisky]

Buying a China bike will get you plenty of tinkering.

[wlfpck]

Question is do they stamp the head with the new engine size?

I believe in California, as part of CARB, for your inspection, they check that the engine matches the VIN on the frame.

If that's the case, this maybe the only option for people living in California since that means the ZS190cc is out of the question.

And with these having pit bike engines... if you get enough power with the bore kit... could probably run 17/32 for front and rear sprocket. Plenty of people already run 17/34 as a 125cc.

[Themanoz]

Originally Posted by loganlexow

I know this is old but I'm wondering if you ended up doing either of these kits and cam? I'm in the same train of thought and looking for more power on my Vader.

I ended up putting on the 146cc big bore kit with a v2 race head from tbparts. Here's the link:

https://tboltusa.com/store/tbparts-r...ines-p-55.html

This kit has really transformed the bike. It is has a bunch more torque and power. I was able to hit 65 mph in a full tuck even with me being 6 foot, 220 lbs. I also swapped my rear sprocket to a "lightweight" 32 tooth. Helped on the top speed end. Only issue with the kit is that the head gasket seems to be a little thin on the bottom of the oil return so I've had to replace it a few times due to it leaking. Other than that, I would definitely recommend doing this!

[Themanoz]

Originally Posted by culcune

I wish I had caught this thread earlier for the first guy--if So. Cal means the L.A. area, I would have directed him to Kronik Racing in Simi Valley, California.

Actually, they sell Vaders and pitbikes and all kinds of power adders, up to and including 190cc engines for them, and are not ashamed to be dealing in Chinese bikes in So. California, no less. I would give them a call to see what parts they have for you. They don't really ship bikes other than locally, but they would ship parts, not to mention, offer advice backed by being in business for several years.

http://www.kronikracing.com/

Thanks for the info! I'll look into them if I ever feel like upgrading the bike again. I'm in the inland empire so a little out of the way from LA but not too far.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by culcune

I wish I had caught this thread earlier for the first guy--if So. Cal means the L.A. area, I would have directed him to Kronik Racing in Simi Valley, California.

Actually, they sell Vaders and pitbikes and all kinds of power adders, up to and including 190cc engines for them, and are not ashamed to be dealing in Chinese bikes in So. California, no less. I would give them a call to see what parts they have for you. They don't really ship bikes other than locally, but they would ship parts, not to mention, offer advice backed by being in business for several years.

http://www.kronikracing.com/

hmmm...I just placed a complete bike order from them to the Right Coast

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

I ended up putting on the 146cc big bore kit with a v2 race head from tbparts. Here's the link:

https://tboltusa.com/store/tbparts-r...ines-p-55.html

This kit has really transformed the bike. It is has a bunch more torque and power. I was able to hit 65 mph in a full tuck even with me being 6 foot, 220 lbs. I also swapped my rear sprocket to a "lightweight" 32 tooth. Helped on the top speed end. Only issue with the kit is that the head gasket seems to be a little thin on the bottom of the oil return so I've had to replace it a few times due to it leaking. Other than that, I would definitely recommend doing this!

I don't doubt that kit adds power and cc because it actually looks like it might be a very good kit ...that adds about 14cc by my calculations simply of what they state at a quick glance of the kit description glance ...I am wondering just how much it adds and if I am doing the displacement wrong or using wrong figures I got from earlier in this thread. Okay to get displacement in cc the formula is: (0.5 x bore) x (0.5 x bore) x 3.14 x stroke all in cc to get cc displacement.

earlier in this thread you said this here Vader engine is square @ 54mmx54mm borexstroke.....displacement = (0.5 x 5.4) x (0.5 x 5.4)
= 2.7 x 2.7 = 7.29
7.29 x 3.14 {pi}= 22.8906 x stroke 5.4= 123.60924cc stock Vader

that kit Only mentions upping the bore to 57mm while the stroke stays at 54, yes?...so using same formula above I only get 137.72511cc displacement

So...I'm guessing maybe it gets a cc or two from a deeper dish head or curved piston?? or stacking extra gaskets to get an extra 1-2cc which i have seen many times...OR it's a simple case I'm dumb and can't multiply....or..OR are they simply overstating the CC of the kit like soooo many Ebay sellers from China and elsewhere do in order to compete?

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

Hey guys, I've been using this site as a reference for a while now. Finally decided to join in on the fun! So I have a Vader/Baodiao 125cc grom clone. I have been doing some work on it here and there, mainly power upgrades to keep up with traffic in busy Southern California aka 60 mph comfortably. So far, I have installed the mikuni 26mm carb, 17t front sprocket, and aftermarket exhaust w/ gutted cat. Top speed was 60 mph exactly so far! Now I'm looking for a big bore kit as a next step.

Here are my 2 options that I have found:

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/

http://www.tbparts.com/product/tb-14...nimport-heads/


So my question is: what is the wrist pin diameter on these engines? My research hasn't given solid results. The 141cc bore requires a 14mm pin and the 146cc bore requires a 13mm pin. Do you guys think it would be possible to fit a 14mm piston with the 146cc kit? On another site, it says the 146cc kit has a 14mm option (https://tboltusa.com/store/tbparts-r...ines-p-55.html)

On a separate note, would this cam fit in the head?

https://tboltusa.com/store/race-cam-...ds-p-2482.html

I know this is long, just need some input! Thanks guys.

Sorry for so many replies...just so much to think about.

WHat size upgraded carb with what jets should I use for 100% stock Vader 125cc with stock Cali/CARB emissions airbox/exhaust?

What size should the carb and jets be if I make exhaust free flow i.e. at least removing the guts off the stock pipe and running a UNI air filter at 300 feet above sea level in 55-70 degree weather?

Thanks I would reeaaallllyy appreciate an answer so I don't have to guess and cuz I hear the stock carb, like many China carbs, is bad AND faulty!!

Ya know these always crappy stock China carbs really makes me wonder how that really makes emissions better if half the CHina underpowered carbs end up leaking terribly and malfunctioning costing tons of gasoline spill pollution and etra carbon pollution to manufacture a brand new working carb plus the old one takes up room in the rubbish heap!!

[Themanoz]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

I don't doubt that kit adds power and cc because it actually looks like it might be a very good kit ...that adds about 14cc by my calculations simply of what they state at a quick glance of the kit description glance ...I am wondering just how much it adds and if I am doing the displacement wrong or using wrong figures I got from earlier in this thread. Okay to get displacement in cc the formula is: (0.5 x bore) x (0.5 x bore) x 3.14 x stroke all in cc to get cc displacement.

earlier in this thread you said this here Vader engine is square @ 54mmx54mm borexstroke.....displacement = (0.5 x 5.4) x (0.5 x 5.4)
= 2.7 x 2.7 = 7.29
7.29 x 3.14 {pi}= 22.8906 x stroke 5.4= 123.60924cc stock Vader

that kit Only mentions upping the bore to 57mm while the stroke stays at 54, yes?...so using same formula above I only get 137.72511cc displacement

So...I'm guessing maybe it gets a cc or two from a deeper dish head or curved piston?? or stacking extra gaskets to get an extra 1-2cc which i have seen many times...OR it's a simple case I'm dumb and can't multiply....or..OR are they simply overstating the CC of the kit like soooo many Ebay sellers from China and elsewhere do in order to compete?

The cc improvement may not be much, but my guess is the new cylinder race head makes more of an improvement than the bore. It comes with a more aggressively timed cam and roller rocker arms so it revs up much quicker. Also, the piston that comes with the big bore kit has much higher compression than the stock one; it has a more convex shape to it. There's not much more room for a larger bore due to the rods holding the cylinder and head in place. The steel lining of the cylinder it pretty much touching the rods with this kit so I couldn't imagine any larger big bore kits for this engine.

[Themanoz]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

Sorry for so many replies...just so much to think about.

WHat size upgraded carb with what jets should I use for 100% stock Vader 125cc with stock Cali/CARB emissions airbox/exhaust?

What size should the carb and jets be if I make exhaust free flow i.e. at least removing the guts off the stock pipe and running a UNI air filter at 300 feet above sea level in 55-70 degree weather?

Thanks I would reeaaallllyy appreciate an answer so I don't have to guess and cuz I hear the stock carb, like many China carbs, is bad AND faulty!!

Ya know these always crappy stock China carbs really makes me wonder how that really makes emissions better if half the CHina underpowered carbs end up leaking terribly and malfunctioning costing tons of gasoline spill pollution and etra carbon pollution to manufacture a brand new working carb plus the old one takes up room in the rubbish heap!!

One of the first things I changed on this bike is the carb. The choke sucked and was way too small to get any decent power out of it. This is the one I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a replica of the Mikuni vm26, so if you wanna buy the genuine Mikuni go ahead. This carb works good though. Only complaint that the fuel/air screw is a little difficult to reach when its mounted on the engine. The idle screw is fine. You have to remove the EGR system to put this carb on as well as plug a hole in the stock cylinder head from this system. However, if you buy that race head then you wont have to worry about that Also, I don't think California inspects motorcycles? There's no smog test for motorcycles so I'm assuming there's no visual inspection on them either. So I ripped off all my emissions stuff and gutted my cat on the exhaust and welded on an aftermarket muffler haha