Lifan X-pect 200 EFI. Normal engine noises?

Sdmfjon · 10-12-2023, 11:37 PM

Picked up a Lifan X Pect. Didn't really run out of the box. Had to do valves and adjust everything. Doesn't stall out anymore idles smooth. One thing that the engine still does is it really sounds like it's pinging under acceleration but it's random, almost like something is rattling.

Does anyone have a good audio of a perfectly running motor?

Thumper · 10-13-2023, 12:08 AM

Detonation? Running too lean? Maybe

Davidmk123 · 10-13-2023, 10:03 AM

there is a metal drop tube in the gas tank that some people have slightly bent away from the tank wall. it can cause rattle.

Sdmfjon · 10-13-2023, 10:51 AM

Will have to check out that tube.

Today I ran it about 10 miles until I hit 100 MI on the odometer. Changed the oil for the third time and put in a new spark plug.

It's definitely some low frequency rattle. It Happens at certain throttle position. I checked the intake and vacuum lines, no appearance of a leak. Checked the exhaust header, no air pushing out or exhaust leak sounds. The exhaust coming out of the muffler is very strong and consistent. The exhaust doesn't smell rich or lean. (unburned fuel smell or the sulfur smell)

I also thought that maybe im over thinking.

Boatguy · 10-13-2023, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdmfjon

Will have to check out that tube.

Today I ran it about 10 miles until I hit 100 MI on the odometer. Changed the oil for the third time and put in a new spark plug.

It's definitely some low frequency rattle. It Happens at certain throttle position. I checked the intake and vacuum lines, no appearance of a leak. Checked the exhaust header, no air pushing out or exhaust leak sounds. The exhaust coming out of the muffler is very strong and consistent. The exhaust doesn't smell rich or lean. (unburned fuel smell or the sulfur smell)

I also thought that maybe im over thinking.

It does sound like the drop tube in the tank that you are describing. It only hits at certain RPMs.

The drop tube is just too close to the edge of the tank and when it vibrates it starts buzzing and making a sound.

jsonnentag · 10-17-2023, 03:56 PM

I have some other more major engine noise and wonder what other people think/speculate. . . .

I have heard the low toned "knocking" forever (2,600 miles on it at the moment) under load and just considered it "normal" for something attempting to get high mileage per gallon. But about 1,000 - 1,500 miles ago a whine developed and at times (since it came and went) there was almost like a chain rattling on something lightly inside.

Well, I didn't know the engines are "known" to arrive with tight valves so adjusted them late in the game to the currently recommended specifications (0.6-0.08mm in and 0.05mm out). There was no apparent space/gap when first opened up (just like the team that tore one apart and checked every singe thing that in one in a post that is a sticky post) - would have been nice to have been told in the user manual to not even run it until the valves were checked.

Anyway, yesterday I was cruising home and off the freeway off ramp (I only cruise at about 55) the sound changed. It sounded BEAUTIFUL! The extra rattle sound was gone and it just sounded like nice valves moving in there. No extra noise!

But this morning about 1 mile from home an excessively loud rattle developed and I turned around as soon as I could and got back home and drove the car to work. It doesn't seem to affect the actual running/idling of the engine much at all. It starts fine and there is no misfiring. But that massive noise can't be good for anything and I think I can now see there evidence of oil leaking (starting to seep) at the bottom front of the crankcase area. That was never there before, so I assume whatever is hitting things in there causes enough vibration to break the seal a little.

So has anybody else experienced anything similar on an X-pect or anything else?

It has to be something loose and rubbing on things in there. But it is strange (to me anyway) that it idles fine and shifts through all the gears fine. I don't relish the thought of taking out the engine and cracking it open, but see no other alternative. I'd just like to know what anybody might speculatively (or "experimencially") guess it might be.

**JerryHawk250** · 10-17-2023, 04:04 PM

First off, Welcome aboard! I would recheck that the lock nut on the valve adjuster didn't come loose. You cam chain tensioner may need to be checked. It should automatically tension but some times they get hung up.

Bill Hilly · 10-17-2023, 10:10 PM

My new KPX makes a noise when the bike is pulling good, but it never knocks, or rattles when you rev it. I try to listen for it in some other KPX videos, and think that I hear it as well. Its almost like when you start entering the power band, and the bike starts " coming alive". My Savage (also a single cylinder air cooled motor) made a similar noise in a similar situation, and it seemed louder when it had the windshield on it, and louder in certain helmets. It's not air noise, like you sometime get with a pod filter, but I really don't know what it is. I assume it's normal, at least hope so. The bike has did it from the get go, and now probably has around 120 miles on it.

Sdmfjon · 10-17-2023, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

My new KPX makes a noise when the bike is pulling good, but it never knocks, or rattles when you rev it. I try to listen for it in some other KPX videos, and think that I hear it as well. Its almost like when you start entering the power band, and the bike starts " coming alive". My Savage (also a single cylinder air cooled motor) made a similar noise in a similar situation, and it seemed louder when it had the windshield on it, and louder in certain helmets. It's not air noise, like you sometime get with a pod filter, but I really don't know what it is. I assume it's normal, at least hope so. The bike has did it from the get go, and now probably has around 120 miles on it.

I have been watching some videos online also. I found this one on YouTube from a Lifan dealership. At :44 - :49 he drives away and hits second and I swear I can hear the same rattle noise.

I have 160 on the bike now. -https://youtu.be/Bsbl8fRT4zo

Bill Hilly · 10-18-2023, 01:41 PM

I went and got an inspection sticker on my bike today, I should have sooner, but never think of it when out riding. On mine the noise that I description in the post a couple above this is weird, I lean forward, and it's louder, lean back, and don't hear it. In regular riding position when I hear it ,I can keep my head in the same spot, and tuck my chin in towards my chest, and don't hear it. I notice on several KPX videos, that these motors change tone, about the time the really start getting in their power band, and that's when I hear it on mine. I have only rode the bike with one helmet, and may try a different one next time. It sounds crazy, but as I mentioned my Savage motor sounded noisier depending on what helmet I wore, and if it had the windshield on, or not.

Bill Hilly · 10-18-2023, 03:38 PM

I rode it with a different helmet. I have 3 full face helmets, but usually just were my olive drab one with the clear shield. I also have a regular 3/4 helmet with a face shield, which I usually used while riding a street bike, but that's what I wore just a while ago, and it seems to not pick up the noise in that helmet. If I leaned forward, I could make myself hear it , but not like I did. I have in the ballpark of probably 155-160 miles on it now, and plan on adjusting the valves pretty soon, but it's not as trouble free a job as on the Hawk, and it's siblings, and the bike is too new to me, and the riding wearing going down hill. I did roll the old Hawk out, and take it for a spin too.

Boatguy · 10-18-2023, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdmfjon

I have been watching some videos online also. I found this one on YouTube from a Lifan dealership. At :44 - :49 he drives away and hits second and I swear I can hear the same rattle noise.

I have 160 on the bike now. -https://youtu.be/Bsbl8fRT4zo

Is it when the RPMs get higher in the vid after he shifts to pick up speed? Like after he winds it out a little? Because I can hear the tank tube vibration at that point. I know. I left my tube alone and just listen to the vibration at those rpms. Doesn't bother me much so I didn't do anything to it.

(Note: I have 6000 miles or so on the same bike and engine)

Otherwise, apart from the tank tube sound I hear the standard exhaust and engine sounds at the different RPMs. It sounds like a working xpect.

From a much broader perspective, what I can say is if it sounds like the video, you don’t have to worry. Just ride. If it breaks maybe I was wrong. But I don’t think it will. I think you're overanalyzing the engine sound if you already got rid of the tank tube vibration. Ride and enjoy.

jsonnentag · 11-10-2023, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

You cam chain tensioner may need to be checked. It should automatically tension but some times they get hung up.

Where could I find a description of how to check the cam chain tensioner? I had to look again in the user manual and it doesn't list it as something to do. I had a Yamaha Maxim XJ650 a long time ago that I recognize the cam chain adjustment location on that I see in some videos I have found, but I have no idea where or how cam chain tensioner adjustment is done on an X-PECT.

**JerryHawk250** · 11-10-2023, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsonnentag

Where could I find a description of how to check the cam chain tensioner? I had to look again in the user manual and it doesn't list it as something to do. I had a Yamaha Maxim XJ650 a long time ago that I recognize the cam chain adjustment location on that I see in some videos I have found, but I have no idea where or how cam chain tensioner adjustment is done on an X-PECT.

Sorry, I just realized that the Xpect has a CG style push rod engine. There is no timing chain. I was thinking it had an OHC like the KPX.

jsonnentag · 11-10-2023, 05:04 PM

Well, I was reading a while ago (actually after the major noise started in the engine - although I'm sure it didn't matter) about where the oil screen actually is in some other posts. The owner's manual says nothing about where the oil screen is and only points out the bottom drain plug. Long ago I e-mailed asking Lifan where the filter in the maintenance schedule was and all the said back referred to the oil level view window.

Anyway, since the engine is entirely unusable now I decided to drain everything - and what is in the screen but a WHOLE BALL BEARING! Plus some other bits and pieces. . . .

I had already over the past few weeks been going back and forth with Lifan about stuff and just for extra info their latest valve clearance numbers are 0.04 mm for intake and 0.06 mm exhaust. They also still claim to not have a service manual, except partially for only the EFI system.

(Oh, I also noticed while looking and browsing things yesterday that CSC Motorcycles has a philosophy more in alignment with me. They say they have service and repair manuals available for everything online! Aptera claims they have the same idea, but we'll see if they ever get their vehicle with solar panels all over it produced.)

Anyway, I was asking Lifan about new engines (because I could just tell by the sound of things and major vibration at any significant rpms that there are major problems - and at this point I don't trust ANYTHING in the engine as not having been majorly damaged!) and they say they can't sell anything directly. So they suggested some relatively local dealers and Kronik Racing (100 miles away in Simi Valley) says a new Lifan 200cc EFI engine would be $679. Significantly closer Turbo Powersports in Norco said it would be $700 and $200 shipping, but apparently they will let you drive over with a "will call" order and pick things up so you don't have to pay shipping.

I asked Lifan about any kind of warranty on a new engine and they said it would have the same 2 years/12,000 miles as the original, but you have to have it inspected at a dealer (I guess to see that it really is running and verify the odometer and I still don't know if dealers charge for that - nobody answered the question) and then they say they want service records too. Well, all the service records are with me and nobody else. I changed the oil (real oil, not what came in it) at 200 miles and then 500, and then every 500 miles after that. Other than that there is just valve adjustments on the maintenance schedule that are related to any engine function. Well, I guess they mention the spark plug, but that isn't going to ruin an engine unless the tip breaks off and bangs around in there.

Oh, in the e-mails I mentioned to Lifan that you could buy Hawk 250 and 250 EFI engines on eBay and that I saw absolutely nothing related to Lifan for sale. So I was searching engines yesterday again and what did I see but a bunch of Lifan things listed now and the 200cc one I looked at (although it doesn't say EFI) comes straight from Ontario, CA (which is right beside Rancho Cucamonga, CA where the Lifan import headquarters is for the US).

I guess I'll ask them if there is ANY possibility of some kind of discount for an engine for something that has less than 2,700 miles on it, but is 1 year past the warranty period. It isn't like ball bearings coming loose has anything to do with regular maintenance and the start of periodic strange sounds was at about 1,000 miles (which I attributed at the time to "break in" - but it was apparently just BREAKING!)

10-12-2023, 11:37 PM	#1
Sdmfjon Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 46	Lifan X-pect 200 EFI. Normal engine noises? Picked up a Lifan X Pect. Didn't really run out of the box. Had to do valves and adjust everything. Doesn't stall out anymore idles smooth. One thing that the engine still does is it really sounds like it's pinging under acceleration but it's random, almost like something is rattling. Does anyone have a good audio of a perfectly running motor? Last edited by Sdmfjon; 10-13-2023 at 07:39 AM.
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10-13-2023, 12:08 AM	#2
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,783	Detonation? Running too lean? Maybe __________________ No matter where you go, there you are
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10-17-2023, 04:04 PM	#7
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,737	First off, Welcome aboard! I would recheck that the lock nut on the valve adjuster didn't come loose. You cam chain tensioner may need to be checked. It should automatically tension but some times they get hung up. __________________ 2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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10-13-2023, 10:03 AM	#3
Davidmk123 Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Tampa FL Posts: 18	there is a metal drop tube in the gas tank that some people have slightly bent away from the tank wall. it can cause rattle.
	1

10-13-2023, 10:51 AM	#4
Sdmfjon Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 46	Will have to check out that tube. Today I ran it about 10 miles until I hit 100 MI on the odometer. Changed the oil for the third time and put in a new spark plug. It's definitely some low frequency rattle. It Happens at certain throttle position. I checked the intake and vacuum lines, no appearance of a leak. Checked the exhaust header, no air pushing out or exhaust leak sounds. The exhaust coming out of the muffler is very strong and consistent. The exhaust doesn't smell rich or lean. (unburned fuel smell or the sulfur smell) I also thought that maybe im over thinking.
	0

10-17-2023, 03:56 PM	#6
jsonnentag Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 11	I have some other more major engine noise and wonder what other people think/speculate. . . . I have heard the low toned "knocking" forever (2,600 miles on it at the moment) under load and just considered it "normal" for something attempting to get high mileage per gallon. But about 1,000 - 1,500 miles ago a whine developed and at times (since it came and went) there was almost like a chain rattling on something lightly inside. Well, I didn't know the engines are "known" to arrive with tight valves so adjusted them late in the game to the currently recommended specifications (0.6-0.08mm in and 0.05mm out). There was no apparent space/gap when first opened up (just like the team that tore one apart and checked every singe thing that in one in a post that is a sticky post) - would have been nice to have been told in the user manual to not even run it until the valves were checked. Anyway, yesterday I was cruising home and off the freeway off ramp (I only cruise at about 55) the sound changed. It sounded BEAUTIFUL! The extra rattle sound was gone and it just sounded like nice valves moving in there. No extra noise! But this morning about 1 mile from home an excessively loud rattle developed and I turned around as soon as I could and got back home and drove the car to work. It doesn't seem to affect the actual running/idling of the engine much at all. It starts fine and there is no misfiring. But that massive noise can't be good for anything and I think I can now see there evidence of oil leaking (starting to seep) at the bottom front of the crankcase area. That was never there before, so I assume whatever is hitting things in there causes enough vibration to break the seal a little. So has anybody else experienced anything similar on an X-pect or anything else? It has to be something loose and rubbing on things in there. But it is strange (to me anyway) that it idles fine and shifts through all the gears fine. I don't relish the thought of taking out the engine and cracking it open, but see no other alternative. I'd just like to know what anybody might speculatively (or "experimencially") guess it might be.
	0

10-17-2023, 10:10 PM	#8
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,005	My new KPX makes a noise when the bike is pulling good, but it never knocks, or rattles when you rev it. I try to listen for it in some other KPX videos, and think that I hear it as well. Its almost like when you start entering the power band, and the bike starts " coming alive". My Savage (also a single cylinder air cooled motor) made a similar noise in a similar situation, and it seemed louder when it had the windshield on it, and louder in certain helmets. It's not air noise, like you sometime get with a pod filter, but I really don't know what it is. I assume it's normal, at least hope so. The bike has did it from the get go, and now probably has around 120 miles on it.
	0

10-18-2023, 01:41 PM	#10
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,005	I went and got an inspection sticker on my bike today, I should have sooner, but never think of it when out riding. On mine the noise that I description in the post a couple above this is weird, I lean forward, and it's louder, lean back, and don't hear it. In regular riding position when I hear it ,I can keep my head in the same spot, and tuck my chin in towards my chest, and don't hear it. I notice on several KPX videos, that these motors change tone, about the time the really start getting in their power band, and that's when I hear it on mine. I have only rode the bike with one helmet, and may try a different one next time. It sounds crazy, but as I mentioned my Savage motor sounded noisier depending on what helmet I wore, and if it had the windshield on, or not.
	1

10-18-2023, 03:38 PM	#11
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,005	I rode it with a different helmet. I have 3 full face helmets, but usually just were my olive drab one with the clear shield. I also have a regular 3/4 helmet with a face shield, which I usually used while riding a street bike, but that's what I wore just a while ago, and it seems to not pick up the noise in that helmet. If I leaned forward, I could make myself hear it , but not like I did. I have in the ballpark of probably 155-160 miles on it now, and plan on adjusting the valves pretty soon, but it's not as trouble free a job as on the Hawk, and it's siblings, and the bike is too new to me, and the riding wearing going down hill. I did roll the old Hawk out, and take it for a spin too.
	0

11-10-2023, 05:04 PM	#15
jsonnentag Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 11	Well, I was reading a while ago (actually after the major noise started in the engine - although I'm sure it didn't matter) about where the oil screen actually is in some other posts. The owner's manual says nothing about where the oil screen is and only points out the bottom drain plug. Long ago I e-mailed asking Lifan where the filter in the maintenance schedule was and all the said back referred to the oil level view window. Anyway, since the engine is entirely unusable now I decided to drain everything - and what is in the screen but a WHOLE BALL BEARING! Plus some other bits and pieces. . . . I had already over the past few weeks been going back and forth with Lifan about stuff and just for extra info their latest valve clearance numbers are 0.04 mm for intake and 0.06 mm exhaust. They also still claim to not have a service manual, except partially for only the EFI system. (Oh, I also noticed while looking and browsing things yesterday that CSC Motorcycles has a philosophy more in alignment with me. They say they have service and repair manuals available for everything online! Aptera claims they have the same idea, but we'll see if they ever get their vehicle with solar panels all over it produced.) Anyway, I was asking Lifan about new engines (because I could just tell by the sound of things and major vibration at any significant rpms that there are major problems - and at this point I don't trust ANYTHING in the engine as not having been majorly damaged!) and they say they can't sell anything directly. So they suggested some relatively local dealers and Kronik Racing (100 miles away in Simi Valley) says a new Lifan 200cc EFI engine would be $679. Significantly closer Turbo Powersports in Norco said it would be $700 and $200 shipping, but apparently they will let you drive over with a "will call" order and pick things up so you don't have to pay shipping. I asked Lifan about any kind of warranty on a new engine and they said it would have the same 2 years/12,000 miles as the original, but you have to have it inspected at a dealer (I guess to see that it really is running and verify the odometer and I still don't know if dealers charge for that - nobody answered the question) and then they say they want service records too. Well, all the service records are with me and nobody else. I changed the oil (real oil, not what came in it) at 200 miles and then 500, and then every 500 miles after that. Other than that there is just valve adjustments on the maintenance schedule that are related to any engine function. Well, I guess they mention the spark plug, but that isn't going to ruin an engine unless the tip breaks off and bangs around in there. Oh, in the e-mails I mentioned to Lifan that you could buy Hawk 250 and 250 EFI engines on eBay and that I saw absolutely nothing related to Lifan for sale. So I was searching engines yesterday again and what did I see but a bunch of Lifan things listed now and the 200cc one I looked at (although it doesn't say EFI) comes straight from Ontario, CA (which is right beside Rancho Cucamonga, CA where the Lifan import headquarters is for the US). I guess I'll ask them if there is ANY possibility of some kind of discount for an engine for something that has less than 2,700 miles on it, but is 1 year past the warranty period. It isn't like ball bearings coming loose has anything to do with regular maintenance and the start of periodic strange sounds was at about 1,000 miles (which I attributed at the time to "break in" - but it was apparently just BREAKING!)
	0