Buccaneer SRT250 Classic or Cafe Purchase

[ChopperCharles]

Yeah dealer quoted $165 for the first 300 mile service, which doesn’t even involve a valve check - just oil and filter.

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Yeah dealer quoted $165 for the first 300 mile service, which doesn’t even involve a valve check - just oil and filter.
Charles.

You should do it yourself, if you like to save money. My understanding is that, in the U.S. but not necessarily elsewhere, a law specifies that owners can perform routine maintenance without jeopardizing the warranty, so long as they maintain appropriate, contemporary records.

I've successfully enforced warranty claims in the past, using my records of the maintenance I performed. For me, those records have been a small notebook recording mileages and service performed. For valve tappet adjustments, record the readings and the changes you made. For oil, record the brand and type, weight, and cost. Same for the filter. Keep the receipts in the back of the notebook while your warranty is in force.

This topic has been discussed a lot by graybeards over on my Guzzi forum, who must have a thousand years of collective experience, and some of whom are lawyers. Do it yourself without fear.

Probably other forum members near you could give you a hands-on lesson for a beer or two. Of course Youtube would have instructions too.

There is a special tool that makes it easier to adjust the valves, which I decided was worth the money for the Buccaneer:

https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-Tappet-Adjuster-Square/dp/B00T6JO4EY/ref=asc_df_B00T6JO4EY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=319850198764&hvpos=1o1&hvne tw=g&hvrand=17378460710679304960&hvpone=&hvptwo=&h vqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018943 &hvtargid=pla-624585311229&psc=1

Simple maintenance is actually a good way to enjoy your motorcycle.

Buc

[ChopperCharles]

Oh I fully intend to do the service myself. I rebuild old bikes for fun, and I’m no stranger to a valve adjustment. I’ve been feeling like I’d rather be riding than wrenching, which is why I’ve bought two new bikes in the last two years. Now I have two bikes I can ride while I’m taking my time getting around to fixing the old stuff. And I’m feeling more and more like getting rid of project bikes and riding more.

After doing many Honda V4 valve adjustments this little Lifan motor is going to be cake.

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Oh I fully intend to do the service myself. I rebuild old bikes for fun, and I’m no stranger to a valve adjustment. I’ve been feeling like I’d rather be riding than wrenching, which is why I’ve bought two new bikes in the last two years. Now I have two bikes I can ride while I’m taking my time getting around to fixing the old stuff. And I’m feeling more and more like getting rid of project bikes and riding more.

After doing many Honda V4 valve adjustments this little Lifan motor is going to be cake.

Charles.

Good. I should have expected as much. I'm kind of the same way. It's nice to have a new bike that has some old-bike characteristics, plus a warranty.

Buc

[ChopperCharles]

So, my gas gauge is flashing at 140 miles on this tank. I was expecting to get a lot more than that before my first fill-up! Now I'm reading in the manual that the Buccaneer doesn't actually have a 4.5 gallon tank, but actually a 3.43 gallon tank. This is a huge disappointment! I was hoping for around 240-250 miles before empty. (Was calculating 1 gallon in reserve, so 70mpg * 3.5 gallons). As it turns out, *IF* the bike actually gets 70mpg and if there is only a gallon of reserve, I still shouldn't be flashing empty until 170 miles.

At 140 miles there still is a lot of gas I can hear sloshing in the tank, so there's still quite a bit more range left... but how much? Buccaneer, what's you're fuel mileage? When do you generally fill up? At 140 miles I still get on or two bars briefly when I gun it form a stop, but on level ground that goes back to no bars pretty quickly.

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

So, my gas gauge is flashing at 140 miles on this tank. I was expecting to get a lot more than that before my first fill-up! Now I'm reading in the manual that the Buccaneer doesn't actually have a 4.5 gallon tank, but actually a 3.43 gallon tank. This is a huge disappointment! I was hoping for around 240-250 miles before empty. (Was calculating 1 gallon in reserve, so 70mpg * 3.5 gallons). As it turns out, *IF* the bike actually gets 70mpg and if there is only a gallon of reserve, I still shouldn't be flashing empty until 170 miles.

At 140 miles there still is a lot of gas I can hear sloshing in the tank, so there's still quite a bit more range left... but how much? Buccaneer, what's you're fuel mileage? When do you generally fill up? At 140 miles I still get on or two bars briefly when I gun it form a stop, but on level ground that goes back to no bars pretty quickly.

Charles.

I previously said in my long review on page two of this thread that the tank is "a 3 1/2 gallon tank." If that is so important to you, you should have noted it. You could also have downloaded and read the owner's manual from the SSR site and found the information there. I did, long before I bought mine. So I don't see why you are surprised.

Your mileage will depend on how you operate the throttle. Most bikes have very pessimistic empty-warning lights. I think there is about a gallon left when this one's comes on. You'll need to figure out your own range.

Buc

[ChopperCharles]

I'm not really upset upset, it's just disappointing. I somehow missed that part of your post. All the other literature said 4.5, even the reviews all said 4.5. While not a huge big deal, not having to fill up as often was a big draw to tell the truth. I don't get more than 110 miles to reserve on any of my other motorcycles, and that's really limiting for touring and exploring. I love getting totally lost, and then finding my way back to somewhere interesting. I don't love sweating my range or deciding to break out the GPS to find fuel. It breaks up an otherwise pleasurable exploration with stress or an artificial detour to civilization.

It's not a deal breaker, and it doesn't change my love for the bike (which is growing as I get more seat time on it), but it is a little bit of a downer when so far everything about the bike has been exceeding my expectations. This is the first thing that really didn't.

In the grand scheme of things, I guess it's a pretty minor thing though.

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

I'm not really upset upset, it's just disappointing....
Charles.

70 mpg is about right. Three times that is 210 miles. The way I handle it is to ride until the light comes on, and then remind myself I have at least 50 more miles of gas. Your bike has a very good range, probably around 250 miles. You just need to stop thinking that the low fuel warning light means you need to fill up right away. But you also need to pay attention to how much fuel it takes after the light comes on. You can figure all this out in a few tankfulls.

[ChopperCharles]

Well, I went and got a fill-up today. I did 150.8 miles and put 2.691 gallons of premium in it. That's... 56 mpg. Not so good... but I think perhaps I'm a bit heavy with the throttle hand. I almost never get the kind of mileage that the manufacturer says a vehicle should get. I'm having an absolute blast though!

One thing I noticed today. I started it up, rode out of my driveway, and was sitting at a stoplight. The idle randomly jumped up to 2100rpm, and then started to settle back down to 1500 or so. I think the EFI was correcting for the temperature. I say this because my previous experience with a lack of power on a cold day was not my experience this time. My bike had noticeably more power today, with the temps in the low 40s.

As I understand if, unless you have an expensive wideband O2 sensor and a vehicle designed for it, EFI O2 sensors only really work at idle speeds. As the revs rise, the motor switches into a closed-loop map. That map may be adjusted by temperature or other conditions that were experienced when the O2 sensor was operating within the open-loop mode. Dunno if that's what really happened, but it ran really nice today.

One other thing that leads me to believe this is the fact that the CSC RX3 can re-learn settings after a 300cc big bore kit is installed. It initially runs terrible, both at idle and at speed, and eventually it learns and the bike runs like a stock bike again - but with more torque.

Anyhow, I'm at 190 miles now, so I'll be changing my oil and installing a Yamaha paper filter before I take it out again.

Charles.

[ChopperCharles]

Did the first oil change today, with 190 miles on the clock. This looks like a lot of crap, but it's WAAAAAY less than the shavings you get when breaking in a new TW200. No big chunks, it all looks good. I couldn't tell you if there was crud in the oil pump screen, as I accidentally dropped it into the oil pan as I was removing it, so anything that was in there was lost.

The O-rings for the oil pump intake screen plug, oil filter cover, and oil filler cap are made of a very nice, very firm and shape-holding material. Slightly translucent brown in color. It seems like a better material than the black o-rings in all my vintage bikes, which compress and stay compressed. They almost always need to be replaced. (And when you don't think they need to be replaced... they still need to be replaced).

As with any new machine, the drain plug was super tight and the oil pump intake screen cover was installed without oil, so it took a breaker bar to get it free. This is problematic because it's very easy to strip the 19mm hex nut on the cover, as it's a shallow nut that doesn't offer positive engagement with a socket.

Fortunately, after the break-in period it is unlikely the oil pump pickup screen will need to be cleaned very frequently. I mean, it's impossible to clean as a regular service item in most motorcycles. My V65 requires exhaust system and oil pan removal to access the intake screen. My GL500 requires radiator, front engine hanger, clutch, and front engine cover removal to access the oil pump intake screen. Not even sure about my EX500 Ninja or SCR950.

So yeah, moving to oil filter changes only after the break-in period seems like a good idea to me. Maybe I'll check the pickup screen every 10 or 20k after the break-in period.

Charles.

[ChopperCharles]

Oh one thing to note, when you replace the oil filter put some anti-seize on the three bolts that hold the cover on -- ESPECIALLY the long one. The 250 Viragos are known for the long bolt corroding in place and breaking off deep inside the motor when you try to unscrew it. Then you have to remove the right engine cover and a bunch of parts to get access to the hole, and hope to hell there's enough of the bolt left to get a pair of vice grips on. If not, it's a trip to the machine shop to have it extracted. So put anti-seize on those three bolts when you change the oil filter!

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Did the first oil change today, with 190 miles on the clock. This looks like a lot of crap, but it's WAAAAAY less than the shavings you get when breaking in a new TW200. No big chunks, it all looks good....
Charles.

My filter had much less swarf than yours at the same mileage (side-by-side photos, below). Then that declined quickly and exponentially at succeeding oil changes.

At that point my bike had never exceeded 50 mph, and I had also been following all the other break-in recommendations in the manual (as I continued to do for the first 1000 miles). I think that your cavalier approach to break-in may be responsible for all that extra crud.

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

My philosophy with breaking in a motor is to break it in relatively hard.... Charles.

Buc

[ChopperCharles]

You might very well be right. The extra swarf in my oil may very well be from my harder break in procedure. It could also easily be sample variation. I would be very curious to compare compression readings after each of our break in procedures. If I run a compression check on mine and then mail you my gauge and my exact procedure, would you be willing to replicate it on your bike, to see if there is actually any benefit to the harder break in?

Charles.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

You might very well be right. The extra swarf in my oil may very well be from my harder break in procedure. It could also easily be sample variation. I would be very curious to compare compression readings after each of our break in procedures. If I run a compression check on mine and then mail you my gauge and my exact procedure, would you be willing to replicate it on your bike, to see if there is actually any benefit to the harder break in?

Charles.

Sure! Sounds like a good comparison to make, but of course any difference in compression could also be sample variation. (And don't forget we may need to factor in our elevation difference; I'm at 800 feet above sea level.)

However, though I grant that better compression might result from a hard break-in (since many say it does), I believe there is more to worry about than bedding in the rings, and that this must be why engineers recommend a gentle break-in. The source of that crud is not likely the rings, but other moving parts. I'd much rather replace the rings than most of those other parts.

What would be best would be a randomized trial. We have performed a so-called natural experiment, without planning to. But we don't have enough replications (yet).

So here's a request for anyone who buys a Buccaneer: Please decide which of two procedures you will follow for the first 200 miles, take a picture of your oil filter at that mileage, and post it here, saying which procedure you followed! (Maybe Charles will send you his by-then-standard compression gauge for a followup measurement.)

This would be a good experiment if we had enough takers, because no one can tell whether they have a bike that perhaps is loaded with more crud from the factory (as yours could have been). In effect, that fact randomizes the treatment across the different possible conditions of bikes from the factory, so that an analysis could be performed to assess the evidence. (It would have to rely on qualitative assessments of the photos, though, since I don't think we'll be weighing the swarf.)

Here are the two procedures that new owners could pick from, as they like:

I. The Owner's Manual Break-In Procedure

• Top Speed

During the first 1,000 miles of operation, do not run the engine at high speed or accelerate too quickly. RPM’s should not exceed 80% of the maximum RPM.

• Engine Speed Change

Speed should always be variable, it should change frequently, it helps the engine parts to break-in smoothly.

• Avoid Long Distances at Low Speeds

To help prevent damage and to assist the engine break-in period long distance travel at low speeds should be avoided until the engine is past the first 1,000 miles of use.

The chart below shows the recommended maximum RPM’s during the break-in period:

First 500 miles: Under 5,000 RPM
First 1,000 miles: Under 6,000 RPM
Over 1,000 miles: Under 7,500 RPM

II. ChopperCharles's Break-In Procedure

My philosophy with breaking in a motor is to break it in relatively hard. I’ve followed the break in procedure on other bikes and it doesn’t make any noticeable difference. However the physics of a hard break in makes sense to me. You want the rings to seat and wear in. With middling rpms there’s never a huge amount of pressure to force those rings against th cylinder walls. Hard break ins are supposed to make for a motor with better compression.

Now I’m not running it like I would if it were fully broken in. Only about 75%. But I’m not really babying it either. I’ve had very good luck using this method in the past so I’m not going to switch up now. Basically I’m just going to ride it and have fun, but stay off of any kind of interstate until it is past the break in period. No full throttle max rpm until after the first service.

I don't regard Charles is any kind of outlier. There are lots of people around who advise us to "ride it like you stole it," which is more extreme than his position.

But if we could compare the by-the-book results with a more liberal regime -- Charles's or worse -- it would actually provide some respectable empirical data to help resolve a long-standing difference of opinion among owners, if not among engineers.

All we need are more participating new Buccaneer owners.

C'mon, Chinariders! Buy some more Buccaneers!*

Buc

*Hurry! Sale ends in EIGHT DAYS, on Feb. 28th! $300 rebate.

[ChopperCharles]

Cool. Yeah, I'm not saying doinga compression check will "prove" anything one way or another, becuase the sample size is just too small. It was for curiosity's sake. That said, your idea to get more samples in the experiment is great! More people buying Buccaneers is a great idea, this bike absolutely rocks my socks and more people should try it!

Charles.