Tuning the RX4's Fuel Injection

[Bob Kelly]

Hay Lukas ! I can't figure out how to modify a data point like say the Idle preset table
if I click on the point it says "error you must select a calabration table to use with this"
I go down and try to select a calibration table but it takes me to the calibration table and does not add it to the idle preset section .... maybe I have to be connected to the bike ?
....
getting to know this program is harder than tearing down the bike ! LOL
there is so much useless information in the ECU that it is unreal but the ECU needs that stuff to make it's calculations.....
do you know of a video on how to get the calibration tables to work on the program ?
.....(i've done what the guy did in the above video showed, but it doesn't do anything it just shows his calibration table that you cannot use)
Bob........

[Bob Kelly]

Well, I'm slowly getting there.... I figured out how to make a patch file and that is your calibration file I think.... I have not figured out how to delete a patch file though...
but I'm sure I'll find that button soon....
so far I've made a patch for the Idle and dropped it down, Enriched the AFR on the power enrich section , but the Main AFR of 14.625 i couldn't get a patch to work on it.... was going to change it to 14.000 but every time I changed it it changed to something else.... the patch said it divided it by 2042 .... then I poked a few more buttons and then I could change the number without it changing it..... weird ~!
I had the same problem in the closed loop section but I THINK i'm getting the hang of it
.... right now I am just learning the program I am not intending to put all these changes into the bike at once.... i just want to see if I can make the changes in the program and have it say it's ok to upload it..... I have 3 idle patches so far I had to go through and change each step for each tempiture individually but that did work, same with the power enrich ( and that is a big table).....
I spent about 4 hrs playing with the program last night and with my Kids help we actually made progress !
.....
Bob......

[Lukas]

Bob I uploaded patch together with Map bin. In the control section you simply create a patch change the parameters you are interested in save the patch and upload it along with the map you can download your map bin. And upload it back together with the patch I don't know if it is possible to apply the patch in any other way HOD ECU HACKER differs from other programs in that you can superimpose the patch file on the bin file. Without making a change to the bin file. This is much safer, if you are going to change any parameter must download mathematical formulas from the internet and calculate everything according to the formula otherwise it can end badly mathematical formulas are for the timing and length of ignition injection and air dosage.

[Bob Kelly]

Yah I figured that out Lukas thanks ! the things that use already calculated figures in there tables I have steered clear of.... simply because I have no idea how they are calculated. like "expected intake pressure in KP" it's like what the heck is that guys !?!?!?!
so the computer guesses at what it will find as a intake pressure ? come on ! so it gives it a large table to cover all the possibilities of what it might find and then puts in that amount....... why not take the true reading of the intake pressure and use that !!!
some times the logic in the ECU isn't the brightest in the world !
....
I haven't tried to upload anything yet.... been running back and forth to town lately
but I'll try to change the idle soon and see how that goes !
.....
Bob.......

[Bob Kelly]

Well, this is very interesting ! ..... I made a "RUN file" that I could replay.....
and came back in and transfered it to my desktop computer.... so I could see it easily
.....
it looks like the Baro function of the ECU is pirty darn close it says we are at 1145m
it's a bit low as I know we are closer to 4000' than 3500'
the strange thing about watching my bike run is how diferent it is from the examples.
mine fires up and within seconds is setting on 14.62 F/A ratio his examples take a few minutes to find that.... my bike does that within seconds like 5 seconds at the most and it is rock solid from that point on... giving it throttle does not change it at all, I thought the acceleration section would have changed that where it enriches the f/a ratio but it shows no sign of changing it at all. (that could be happening so fast the laptop cannot see it too.) the idle target is set at 1752 I think it is but it idles at 1890 or so most of the time till it gets quite warm then it will drop to 1700 or maybe 1600 RPM
what I see on the bike is it starts up at 2100 RPM and very slowly drops.... i hope to change that !
.... another thing I noticed is the extream Spark advance !!!! at 3900RPM this bike is saying it has a 41deg advance !!!!! at Idle it is in the high 20's to low 30's
I know with the engines of old (very old) the spark advance at idle should be around 10deg not 30deg. and full advance on my Triumph is set at 31deg. for FULL advance
this bike goes way past that !!!!
..... I expect the rough idle is a symptom of that high advance at idle ! not positive on that at all though.
sensor MV seems to be set quite high as well it pegged itself a few times in the recording what that thing does I have no idea but it's not like the examples he gave on the Hud hacker program.... they stay at the bottom end to as high as mid range mine is half way to 3/4 the way all the time.so it may be something I need to turn down.
....
All in all I did manage to get a example run file so I could watch it on my computer !
so that is progress
.... if you want to see that Run file I made Lukas say so and I'll try to upload it.
Bob.....

[Bob Kelly]

OK a few minutes ago I finally uploaded a patch.... it was an idle speed mod patch
and everything went along just fine although when I clicked on the upload button a screen popped up and wanted me to confirm that I would give to my favorite charity type thing and I had to click both boxes and then it let me continue.....
it took about 2 minutes to upload the calibration and firmware section, I didn't know if doing the calibration section alone would do it so I did the middle button ! LOL....
when it was done uploading I heard the fuel pump reset and all was done so I imediately downloaded the entire ECU at that time to check the changes...
it did put in my new patch and lowered my idle to 1600 ....
upon seeing that I hit the starter and the bike fired right up..... and imediately started idling at 1800RPM which quicklu started slowing down.... for a minute there I thought it was going to go TOO slow but it leveled out at 1600RPM and that is fortunate as I wouldn't want the idle any slower than that.... this bike has a big heavy crank and alot of advance spark meaning idling real slow can be problematic as throttling up can overpower the centrifugal force of the crank and try to turn it backwards... not a good thing at all so keeping the idle above 1500RPM is a must I think.
....
it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be..... you just have to be careful on getting the file names correct and make real sure your using the right files !!!!!
...other than that it was super simple.
....
So now I have that annoying high idle out of the way....
I did notice when I made another run file that I did get the power enhance button to light up for a split second it takes 60% throttle to activate it to begin with and doing that standing still is hard to do.... you need to have a load on it for that.
but it does kick in so I am happy to see that !
....
Bob......

[Bob Kelly]

Ok this time I got carried away and up loaded several patches ( without uploading the .Bin file I might add)( so you can do that!)
up loading the patches went without a hitch and took about 5 minutes for about 7 patches ... each done separately.
did that and then down loaded the entire ECU again to check on the changes....
then I fired up the bike and let it idle for a few minutes... right away I could tell that the idle was too slow....and it was going to die..... which it eventually did...
so I turned it off and went inside and got the files on my big computer so I could actually see what went wrong..... and what went wrong was I up loaded another idle speed patch that was lowered to 500 RPM.... OOPS I made that patch weeks ago !
but I successfully enriched the main fuel flow to 13.625 and I noticed that when it was Idling I was watching it on the laptop and the time it took to reach that was very long
so I may have to modify something to make that faster ! but it looks like I succeeded
in richening up the bike ! I put in 2 patches that should effect the Acceleration enrich portion and the Power enrich portion as well.... though I haven't ridden it sense I don't think it will be anything but better ! in fact I will be surprised if it messes up stuff !
.... about 3 hrs later I went back out there and re up loaded a idle patch that I know was correct and the bike now idles good again.
So... all that is left is to test it and see how it preforms now which should be interesting !
.... I'll let ya know if it worked !
after I uploaded the patch to the other previous patch I fired up the bike and let it idle for quite a while.... the idle is NOT any smoother Unfortunately, but it is slower than the 2000 RPM that it was originally it now idles along at a leasurly 1600 RPM but it wavers alot.... it probably has alot to do with the idle Air setup a guy on youtube said that was how he fixed his idle and I expect that is what I will have to do to this one as well.
I am getting pirty adept at setting up everything now and knowing the HUD ECU Hacker program....
A few days back when I had the RX4 in the shop and had the seat off of it to get to the plug I realized that all I had to do was hold the plug up as I put the plastic shield back on and I wouldn't have to take it all apart when I wanted to access the ECU ...like DUH ! why didn't I do that a month ago !?!?! now all I have to do is take off the back seat and the plug is right there ! .....that makes it ever so much nicer !

....
Catch'a Later !
Bob.......

[Bob Kelly]

Ok I just got back from about a 6 mile ride on a back road....
the bike preformed better in almost every respect as far as the engine goes , so I must'a done something right ! LOL
when giving it a handful of throttle it pulls alot harder than it did before
but that is a relative kind of assumption as it's been a while sense I've ridden it
but to me it does feel stronger.... especially around 5000RPM and up before it was sluggish there, acceleration was not super strong in that range but now it is noticeably stronger so overtaking and passing on the freeway should be alot better before accelerating to pass was quite slow so I think that portion has been fixed....
when I got home I shifted into neutral and put it on it's side stand and opened the gate and just let the bike idle there.... it did so with no problems right near 1500 to 1600 RPM. and the bike was at full operating tempiture. so that's good!
..... when crusing along the engine runs alot smoother than it used to
....
now I want to get that rough idle smoothed out and I'll be happy
....
when I first fired it up I was paying real close attention to how it was running
as I did not let it warm up before I started moving it out of the fenced yard
( it's a P.I.T.A to get that heavy beast in and out through that skinny gate!)
but it handled it fine even cold....
giving it throttle and load when it was cold didn't matter at all she started working from the start ..so that is a good sign !
I certainly cannot do that with the Ninja ! and the Triumph complains alot when I do that... but the RX4 just took it in stride and was ready to go from the start ! which is pirty cool to see that !!!
....
so I think all my effort has paid off and the bike is running better !
....only time will tell the TRUE story though I am sure !
....
Bob.....

[Bob Kelly]

Another of my earth shattering realizations of this fuel injected bike is this...
when you give it the throttle you of course twist the throttle grip Right?
well on a Carbureted bike that's done with a cable but on this bike it's done with a cable and sensors.... and in the ECU it goes off of "Throttle position"
and it has a graph of sorts that tells the ECU what fuel to air ratio to give the engine..... BUT it's "Throttle position" ....let me explain, on my 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750.... when I am crusing along and I want to go alot faster I just twist the grip about 1/4" and away I go on the RX4 if I do that there is a change but not very much of one it takes about 1/2 throttle turn to get the girl excited ! this is because it goes off of throttle Position if I want to go bunns out and balls to the wall I HAVE to go full throttle not half way like the Triumph
.... the throttle is far more sensitive on carb bikes than it is on fuel injected bikes.... even a bumpy road makes my Triumph surge because of the small throttle movement.... that is rare on the RX4
so I tried something the other day.... I was crusing along doing about 35~40 on a back road and I repositioned my hand so I could give it alot of throttle and then did so the bike roared to life like I have never seen it do sense I brought it home ! it showed me it's 40hp ! I liked that so much I did it 2 or 3 times more just for kicks ! LOL
so if you got a fuel injected bike USE more throttle ! it's not like the bikes of old where all you had to do was twist it a little, you have to twist it a whole lot !
LOL that may be obvious to you guys but to this old timer it is a new thing !
HAHAHAHAH
Bob.......

[Lukas]

Bob unscrew the plugs after some time and check the color of the plow, could you describe more clearly how to upload the patch without maps. Bin and did you change the AFR value or just add fuel?

[Bob Kelly]

Today was peaks of highs and lows for me....and the Bike !
I set out to put in 15 new patches into the bike....
but the only one that it took was the very last one AND it eraced all my other patches
and I didn't know why....
turns out you have to have ALL your changes in one patch file you can only do them separately IF you have a copy of THAT ECU at the time and are using it as the patch file reference not one from 2 weeks ago ...
....
it turns out however that I have been doing the patch process ALL WRONG
i can make a patch easy now, no problem but all the patches you want to change cannot be on a separate file they have to be in ONE file
i found out that because I changed the idle patch then later went back in a different patch and changed the AFR ratio.... ( it did not have the idle patch in it) so when I put in the AFR patch the old changes I did to the idle were eraced and it was back to stock
....
I went through it and did 15 separate patches and the only one that took effect was the last one on the list .... so after pulling my hair out for a while I got my kid to help me.... and He figured it out fairly fast...your doing it wrong dad !
all the patches have to be in the same file because it over writes with the information of the stock bin file and it only patches the ones that are patched
in that file the rest will be the stock bin file....
so I had to contemplate how I could get 12 patches into one patch file
and my Kid figured that out real quick too zip zip and the kid was done !
and showed me all the patches were indeed on ONE patch file.....
we up loaded that to the bike and then down loaded a fresh ECU Flash file and got the whole kit and kabootle and then came inside and checked it
this time EVERYTHING was changed.....like it should have been !!!!
.....
I dunno what I'ed do without My Kid ! LOL
....
so anyway Now that everything is in the ECU that I originally tried to put in there, but kept erasing with every new patch.... i will take it for a run and see what it's like now...... I expect it will be even better now LOL
....
I guess you are supposed to make all your patches then ADD them to just one patch so it has all of them , then up load it
....if you don't do that it just takes you back to ground zero and the only patch that is changed is your last one

it's kind'a weird but it does make sense though I am not sure I understand all I know about it yet ! HAHAHAHHA

Lukas You don't have to change the timing if your messing with fuel unless the settings in fuel are changing the timing which i don't think anything changes the timing in all of the fuel settings I have looked at.... the Baro section MIGHT but I don't think so
You do NOT have to be a perfectionist to do this I am definitely not a perfectionist and I've done it.... and so far all I have done is change every setting that calls for 14.625 to 13.625 simply because to me 14.625:1 is far too lean to work correctly !
it'll run on that but it won't run perfect !
.... it's not as difficult as your making it out to be....that's all....knowing how to work that HUD ECU Hacker and getting it to do what you want it to do is a whole other can of worms.... besides it stopping you in the middle of your work and saying sense you haven't donated you can't use the program and I have donated to my favorite charity !
but he doesn't trust you to do that so he kills the program for you , that's not nice at all
I would LOVE to buy the program from him but he doesn't sell it and instead he adds this crap WTF.... no i am not happy with it at all and I will be looking for one I can buy!
.....
I would not be surprised that the next time I try to use it it refuses to work again because I haven't donated.... and I will have to re install it yet again to get it to work
this kind of behavior on a charity ware program SUCKS BIG TIME there is no call for it
and if he reads this it's real simple ! sell a version I can buy ! put it on your website
it's not that hard !
....
Bob........

[Lukas]

Bob germany is a pig wants money for a program that he can not really distribute because he has no right to work with DELPHI software has no license and selling this program is a crime as if that was not enough he wants, for money to be paid to an untested charity in a country that is in opposition to the free world and supports the war in Ukraine furthermore India has a space program and Germany does not, and it's ridiculous to support them, and the cherry on the cake is that it was Germany that caused the connivance by building nord stream 2 and giving Russia the opportunity to blackmail Europe Germany creating this program will burn in hell.

uninstall the program and reinstall and problem solved

[Lukas]

I do not know if the computer itself will change the ignition acceleration after changing the AFR, if there is no knock combustion and you do not feel it at all the engine will run even better, but at some point something will knock and there will be an end.

CHECK THE COLOR OF THE SPARK PLUG.


Aha the fact that you have to do everything in one pach is normal, because every time you upload a pach the values return to nominal and there is only the last modification, where normally the patch overwrites the old data in this case this is not the case.

[Bob Kelly]

Well, I had my Kid find the A-hole's email address and I emailed him , he responded with your one of the "looser users" and can't even read and with a responce like that I gave him a piece of my mind obviously I am real glad I gave to My charity my Kitty cats !
we have about 20 strays that we've been feeding LOL
he should try to sell it anyway weather he has a liscnses that says he can work on Delfi or not..... but I guess that would be rather silly and an easy way to wind up in prison !
Humans are sue happy any more ! and I have never understood that !
.....
I do not believe there is any need to change the timing when changing the fuel, simply because the timing is set.... it should fire at that point weather it is starving for fuel or too rich to run..... In all my years I have never seen spark advance as far as on this bike it goes up to 34 degrees advance ! Man that is a long way up there !
but I suppose that is how they get 40hp from a 450cc engine too ! it's certainly not from cramming in alot of fuel !!! they barely give it enough to run !
.... I took the bike for a ride yesterday morning to buy some black sprey paint for the back rack on the TT250 ( I finally got it completed) and the bike ran better than ever
it definately has more power than it did at first !
the only problem I could see was every so often comming off idle it would sogg for a split second and then roar to life.... the bike has always had that problem and it does it LESS now but it still is doing it a tiny bit....
the idle is still rough but not as rough as it was it wavers alot in the idle !
but when really getting on it it roars to life and gets the job done quickly now !
in all honnesty I will change my idle air patch one last time and go with a bit more air than I gave it this last patch I am halfing the values between the first and last and going to the middle this time ...LOL we'll see if that changes anything.... I kind'a doubt it...but it is worth a try.
.....

YES a color check is Definitely needed THANK YOU... I forgot about that !
originally it was the color of a brand new plug ! white as it could be !!!! that is why I wanted to richen it up....
so I did and changed every 14.625 fuel air ratio to 13.625 and that should help a little
..... I may well have to go richer than that if I go by the sparkplug color ! because I remember working on 2 strokes it needed to be around 12:1 to be right !
Knocking is unheard of in motorcycles.... they self destruct first.... usually although Harleys can knock and old triumphs as well but that's usually due to some screw up in the spark advance
,.....
I've been through that ECU from top to bottom several times now and I have not found a table for spark advance I believe they just use a formula off the RPM directly correlated to the crank pickup and RPM so it can't be in the wrong place ever !
you might be able to change that formula if you could find it ....like if you wanted to reduce the spark advance for some reason.... but I can't imagen why you would want to
.....
.... Yes One patch with multable patches IN the patch is the way it should be done
or one patch from a fresh D/L ed ECU patch it and then upload one. if you try to do a second you will erace the first patch because it over writes the entire ECU each time
.....that's what I found out ...the hard way ! LOL


.....
later !
Bob........

[Lukas]

Bob it is not so simple, adding, enriching AFR cools the engine, if you do not change the ignition angle and do not get maximum power from the increased fuel and air, and there may be oil thinning I am not able to translate the Polish article, but here is written something about what I mean.https://www.golebysparts.com.au/blog...atio-explained