Brozz 250 - 4 Degree Timing Key Install

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

That's not comforting. Did you contact him?
I really didn't want to work on the house this weekend. Lol

I sent Joe a message yesterday asking for an update. He responded that he would check.


Still waiting for his response.




John

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by grumpyunk

I know nothing... but searched a little:

https://adaracing.com/timing-adjustm...e-honda-crf50/

Anyone given this a try? Not even sure if it will fit. No specs given.

The USPS seems to have decided they don't want to deliver mail nearly as fast is in the past. Letter from GA to CA took 3 weeks. From OR to GA took over 2 weeks.
Maybe their ponies are getting tired.
tom

I ordered two from them and received them quick. I haven't had a chance to install them yet to confirm it fits. I misplaced the stock key from my X22R so i have nothing to measure and compare.
Be aware that there's an upcharge of orders less than $10. It's better to order two and possible sell the other to a member on here.

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by grumpyunk

I know nothing... but searched a little:

https://adaracing.com/timing-adjustm...e-honda-crf50/

Anyone given this a try? Not even sure if it will fit. No specs given.

The USPS seems to have decided they don't want to deliver mail nearly as fast is in the past. Letter from GA to CA took 3 weeks. From OR to GA took over 2 weeks.
Maybe their ponies are getting tired.
tom

I found numerous offers for 2, 4, 6 degree keys, but I thought it was safest to go with Joe Henner, since he is focused on Chinese bikes, gets rave reviews and I have not seen one of these bikes apart to know what exactly the offset should be.



Maybe mine just slipped through a crack.


John

[JohnC]

I did get a message from Joe last night, that he would be putting a key in the mail today. Pretty sure he did forget to send me one before. Now to get that flywheel off.

[JohnC]

By the way, this is the puller I used to take the flywheel off. I used a strap wrench around the flywheel, put some good torque on the puller and a few hits with a 1 pound hammer. Easy peasy.



https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08.../dp/B000WJC0U2


John

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by JohnC

By the way, this is the puller I used to take the flywheel off. I used a strap wrench around the flywheel, put some good torque on the puller and a few hits with a 1 pound hammer. Easy peasy.



https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08.../dp/B000WJC0U2


John

John- just to confirm you have a Brozz or Hawk?
I assume you removed the flywheel bolt, screwed the puller all the way until it seated with socket wrench and then hit the end of the socket wrench with a hammer?
Was the strap wrench you mentioned around the puller to keep it from moving? if so i found that wedged bolt in the gear worked fine to keep it from moving.

[tknj99]

I may try that puller you used next attempt and even though the flywheel threads aren't in the best shape perhaps the hit from a heavy hammer might be all that's needed to unstuck it..
Also curious to hear your review of the performance gains

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I ordered two from them and received them quick. I haven't had a chance to install them yet to confirm it fits. I misplaced the stock key from my X22R so i have nothing to measure and compare.
Be aware that there's an upcharge of orders less than $10. It's better to order two and possible sell the other to a member on here.

If it works for you ill probably order from there as well.. it looks like you can add a $.50 sticker to get around the $5 low order fee.. can always use another sticker on my toolbox

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by tknj99

If it works for you ill probably order from there as well.. it looks like you can add a $.50 sticker to get around the $5 low order fee.. can always use another sticker on my toolbox

They sent me a sticker for free. Lol That one way to get around it. I needed two so it worked out to the good for me. Well today it's nice and nasty out side. Might clear up enough later to pull the bikes out. If not Sunday will be a better day.

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by tknj99

John- just to confirm you have a Brozz or Hawk?
I assume you removed the flywheel bolt, screwed the puller all the way until it seated with socket wrench and then hit the end of the socket wrench with a hammer?
Was the strap wrench you mentioned around the puller to keep it from moving? if so i found that wedged bolt in the gear worked fine to keep it from moving.

I have a 2020 Brozz 250 from Peace Sports.



The puller is just a hardened M16 bolt with a flat end. You remove the M10 bolt and washer holding the flywheel. Then screw in the M16 bolt which will bottom out on the end of the crankshaft. The strap wrench went around the flywheel itself. I probably put 30 - 40 lbs of torque on the puller. And then hit the end of the puller a few times and it popped loose.


I used the strap wrench rather then jamming something in the gear teeth to hold the flywheel / engine from turning. Seemed like the safer approach, but I know others have used the gear teeth approach with no issues.



Now I'm waiting on the 4 degree key from Joe Henner.


Thanks,
John

[grumpyunk]

Jamming the gear teeth will work, but. I did that and after felt a very slight catch. I rotated the crank a few times, and it seemed to not be as bad or noticeable. I may have dodged a bullet. Time will tell. The difference between normal and one spot barely needed any effort, but you could feel it. I have a balance shaft CG250 and put a flat blade between the crankshaft gear and the idler gear to the clutch basket. I did not have trouble like the screwdriver falling out in the midst of my work, so it is not a particular ding on the teeth that I could see. FWIW.
tom

edit add
So a M16 x 1.6 bolt will work? Essentially a forcing screw pulling on the flywheel and pushing on the crankshaft. Tension it up, and give it a whack. I am much more confident doing that than using 'legs' on the edge of the flywheel. So many ways they can slide off, or get out of position.

tknj ... you might want to consider getting a tap and using it to clean up the internal threads on your flywheel. Sorry if I get the different models and respective engines confused.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but the 2020 Brozz 250 has a CG250, correct?

tom

[JohnC]

Tom,



You described the process correctly. Calling an M16 bolt a puller, is confusing though, because what it's really doing is pushing the flywheel away from the crankshaft.


The Brozz does have a CG250. At least from pictures I've seen of the flywheel on a Hawk, is the same as the Brozz.

John

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by tknj99

If it works for you ill probably order from there as well.. it looks like you can add a $.50 sticker to get around the $5 low order fee.. can always use another sticker on my toolbox

Well I didn't get to install the key today but did find the stock key and compared them. It's the same measurements and shape. I do have a good excuse though. It's my birthday today and my wife and daughter threw a little party for me. This afternoon the sun finally came out so took the ghost for a 2 hour ride. What a way to finish off the day.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by grumpyunk

So a M16 x 1.6 bolt will work? Essentially a forcing screw pulling on the flywheel and pushing on the crankshaft.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the 2020 Brozz 250 has a CG250, correct?

tom

The main difference between a dedicated puller and just a regular bolt is that the puller has a rounded smooth edged end on it where it contacts the flywheel. You could simply use a longer bolt, but it would be a good idea to either flatten and smooth the end or put some sort of slug between the bolt and flywheel end in order to prevent potential marring or damage.

As for the second question. Yes, the Brozz uses CG style engine. The CG design is a single lobe cam in block pushrod design.

[grumpyunk]

How about using a ball bearing as the 'slug' between bolt and crankshaft? I have seen that somewhere. The sphere will contact the crank around the periphery of the bolt hole, and should spread the load without damaging the threads in the least. The hole will cause the sphere to stay in position, so it will not wander much or at all on the end of the bolt.
Put me down for using a ball bearing.
Have you seen the 'performance cam' listed on DaBay?

here:
UPGRADE Cam for HONDA CG125 Chinese 150/200/250cc Push Rod Engine ATV Dirt Bike | eBay

Looks as if they just picked one up from the maching and didn't even give it a bath.
But it does have the 'fat' shape that will give longer duration. At least my eyes tell me so. Mega you should get one and compare to what you got from Brazil to see if the grind is somewhere close. Should be informative. And appreciated by all interested in this stuff.
tom