CSC SG400's Are Finally In - Page 5

duck9191 · 09-13-2021, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2LZ

The RE 650 a cool throw-back bike and would be neat to have in the stable but yes, it's pretty dang gutless for the size, especially in today's (2021) standards. My 2006 650 V-Strom puts out 67hp and 44 ft/lbs of torque and it's considered antiquated these days. Sure, it's water cooled but in reality, that doesn't create horsepower, it just helps sustain horsepower once hot.

The de-tuning for overseas that krat brings up is understandable, but you would think there would be a U.S. download or version.

Tell triumph this. My tiger 900 rally is limited to 93hp to meet the A2 requirements to allow it to be detuned. At 7k rpm, the throttle bodies close to 80% and it falls on its face. Can't wait for the warranty to be up, its going to be a long 2 years lol.

franque · 09-14-2021, 11:09 AM

A2 limits are 47hp, after that they're unlimited, so that must be something else. I'm pretty sure if the Triumph dealer puts a triumph map on it, it doesn't violate the warranty

duck9191 · 09-14-2021, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

A2 limits are 47hp, after that they're unlimited, so that must be something else. I'm pretty sure if the Triumph dealer puts a triumph map on it, it doesn't violate the warranty

They also can't be over 94bhp when unlimited. So you can't limit a panagalie v4r and ride on an A2, guess that makes SOME sense lol. There are a few modded tunes on the net I could flash, but I only have 3k miles on it so I'm going to get some more miles first. Still fun as is, just has some stalling issues likely due to emission tuning I would like gone as well as some more power.

"Any motorcycle more powerful than 94bhp in standard manufacturers trim cannot be restricted down"

https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/a2-...indepth-guide/

krat · 09-14-2021, 01:28 PM

Those regulations show up over and over in the HP figures of the entire industry. Looking at the best sellers you will see a host of 400-650 bikes listing 47hp as their output, then you jump to the 700+ area and find another group all limited to 94hp, or slightly less, output.

The EU regulations now drive most of the motorcycle industry in the western world, and the U.S. gets only the remains our limited demand can draw. Plus our motorcycle culture is completely different over here, being almost entirely recreational use That means we miss out on some of the best small cc commuter bikes made.

While we polish and port and change carbs, exhausts and CDI units on our 250cc bikes to hit 60-65 and 70 on a good day, in Europe you can walk into a dealership and purchase a water cooled 125cc Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, or even a Sinus or Lexmoto that will produce 15hp and easily do 70-80 mph with full exhaust emissions gear in pace. Those bikes are usually not even imported to the U.S. We get only 8hp Groms and Monkey Bikes.

Of course they must ride these 125cc wonders until they are 19, or I believe new riders of any age must ride the learner bikes for 1 year before going for a full license.

But there is an advantage. You do not have to have a full license to ride a 125cc bike, just a learner permit (CBT). You can renew that CBT every 2 years forever and never take the full test. That is why they have so many very good 125 bikes and scooters in Europe. More adults are riding them as lifetime users.

The A2 class of bikes is truly a place where "disposable" bikes rule. Most A2 riders will stay there for 3-5 years before taking the full test and moving to a full license. They can then de-regulate their restricted bike or go to a full license model. The Chinese are trying to develop this segment, hoping the bikes will last long enough for the 19 year olds to turn 21 and trade them off for a full size bike before they fall apart.

Compare that to my basic license course to get motorcycle endorsement on my license. I was the only person in a class of 20 riding a bike of less than 650cc and 4-5 of the "new riders" were on Harley Dynas and Road Glides. One of the Harley riders was 16.

Working_ZS · 09-25-2021, 10:33 AM

The bike came in last Friday, but I've been busy with some important home repairs, so I haven't had any time to get out on it; hopefully this weekend. I started a thread over in the 'Street' subforum, which has pictures:

http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...d=1#post366759

ChopperCharles · 04-03-2022, 10:42 AM

For the record, even with a 30" inseam my knees really feel it after an hour or two in the saddle. The seat-to-peg distance is really tight on the SG400.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 04-06-2022, 11:11 AM

Found out something interesting today. The SG400 alters the redline depending on the gear you're in. In 1st gear the redline is 9000. In 3rd gear it changes to 9500. I haven't tested above that yet, but I'll bet 10k doesn't start until 5th gear.

That's really unfortunate, I'm constantly bouncing off the rev limiter in first, and now I know why. I wonder if I can trick the ECU into thinking I'm always in 6th, without that affecting my gear indicator...

Charles.

wheelbender6 · 04-09-2022, 07:48 AM

ooops. Wrong thread. Sorry

ChopperCharles · 04-13-2022, 02:21 PM

Latest mods:

Chinahao to the rescue for the side covers and tank emblems. Still have the OEM "cyclone" wheel decals on the way.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 09-20-2024, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Found out something interesting today. The SG400 alters the redline depending on the gear you're in. In 1st gear the redline is 9000. In 3rd gear it changes to 9500. I haven't tested above that yet, but I'll bet 10k doesn't start until 5th gear.

That's really unfortunate, I'm constantly bouncing off the rev limiter in first, and now I know why. I wonder if I can trick the ECU into thinking I'm always in 6th, without that affecting my gear indicator...

Charles.

No, that wasn't correct btw. It was the slow tach response that threw me off.

Charles.

09-14-2021, 01:28 PM	#64
krat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: KY Posts: 277	Those regulations show up over and over in the HP figures of the entire industry. Looking at the best sellers you will see a host of 400-650 bikes listing 47hp as their output, then you jump to the 700+ area and find another group all limited to 94hp, or slightly less, output. The EU regulations now drive most of the motorcycle industry in the western world, and the U.S. gets only the remains our limited demand can draw. Plus our motorcycle culture is completely different over here, being almost entirely recreational use That means we miss out on some of the best small cc commuter bikes made. While we polish and port and change carbs, exhausts and CDI units on our 250cc bikes to hit 60-65 and 70 on a good day, in Europe you can walk into a dealership and purchase a water cooled 125cc Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, or even a Sinus or Lexmoto that will produce 15hp and easily do 70-80 mph with full exhaust emissions gear in pace. Those bikes are usually not even imported to the U.S. We get only 8hp Groms and Monkey Bikes. Of course they must ride these 125cc wonders until they are 19, or I believe new riders of any age must ride the learner bikes for 1 year before going for a full license. But there is an advantage. You do not have to have a full license to ride a 125cc bike, just a learner permit (CBT). You can renew that CBT every 2 years forever and never take the full test. That is why they have so many very good 125 bikes and scooters in Europe. More adults are riding them as lifetime users. The A2 class of bikes is truly a place where "disposable" bikes rule. Most A2 riders will stay there for 3-5 years before taking the full test and moving to a full license. They can then de-regulate their restricted bike or go to a full license model. The Chinese are trying to develop this segment, hoping the bikes will last long enough for the 19 year olds to turn 21 and trade them off for a full size bike before they fall apart. Compare that to my basic license course to get motorcycle endorsement on my license. I was the only person in a class of 20 riding a bike of less than 650cc and 4-5 of the "new riders" were on Harley Dynas and Road Glides. One of the Harley riders was 16. __________________ %90 of the Chinese motorbikes ever made are still on the road. The other %10 made it back home.
	0

09-25-2021, 10:33 AM	#65
Working_ZS Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 365	It's Here The bike came in last Friday, but I've been busy with some important home repairs, so I haven't had any time to get out on it; hopefully this weekend. I started a thread over in the 'Street' subforum, which has pictures: http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...d=1#post366759
	2

04-09-2022, 07:48 AM	#68
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	ooops. Wrong thread. Sorry __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

09-14-2021, 11:09 AM	#62
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	A2 limits are 47hp, after that they're unlimited, so that must be something else. I'm pretty sure if the Triumph dealer puts a triumph map on it, it doesn't violate the warranty
	0

04-03-2022, 10:42 AM	#66
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	For the record, even with a 30" inseam my knees really feel it after an hour or two in the saddle. The seat-to-peg distance is really tight on the SG400. Charles.
	1

04-06-2022, 11:11 AM	#67
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	Found out something interesting today. The SG400 alters the redline depending on the gear you're in. In 1st gear the redline is 9000. In 3rd gear it changes to 9500. I haven't tested above that yet, but I'll bet 10k doesn't start until 5th gear. That's really unfortunate, I'm constantly bouncing off the rev limiter in first, and now I know why. I wonder if I can trick the ECU into thinking I'm always in 6th, without that affecting my gear indicator... Charles.
	0

04-13-2022, 02:21 PM	#69
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	Latest mods: Chinahao to the rescue for the side covers and tank emblems. Still have the OEM "cyclone" wheel decals on the way. Charles.
	2