I bought the 1977 KZ-400 - Page 4

Weldangrind · 03-05-2010, 12:03 AM

In further reference to RTV, it is intended to be colour-coded for a specific application. Clear is for glass, blue is sensor-safe, black is oil and gas resistant and red is high heat. Black would certainly stand up to intake manifold temps.

In response to your question, I'd use bulk gasket material that is intended for heat (not cork), and no sealant. If it leaks, you could always dismantle it and try sealant (despite the PITA factor).

Reveeen · 03-05-2010, 07:50 AM

Scratching head......

Seems to me that Mikuni spigot type manifolds have kind of a raised ring on the head side that functions like an O ring creating a seal, Now I know KZ1000's have the same kind of thing, and small Hondas too, so I am wondering if you had the same, and it's just squashed flat, and kind of hardened?

The others are right, silicone is a bitch to clean up, so if I was trying to get a seal between semi-hard rubber (a flat surface) and an alloy head (another flat surface) I would use likely Permatex #2, because I have a large tube of it, and alcohol cleans it off, Now, it is not going to seal a gaping hole, but it would be ok for flat to flat. I use it on the water passages on automotive intake manifolds/ heads and the steel intake gasket, and haven't had one leak yet.

katoranger · 03-05-2010, 08:02 AM

I jb welded the carb to the intake manifold on my 86 escort. 8O

Worked great.

FastDoc · 03-05-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveeen

Scratching head......

Seems to me that Mikuni spigot type manifolds have kind of a raised ring on the head side that functions like an O ring creating a seal, Now I know KZ1000's have the same kind of thing, and small Hondas too, so I am wondering if you had the same, and it's just squashed flat, and kind of hardened?

The others are right, silicone is a bitch to clean up, so if I was trying to get a seal between semi-hard rubber (a flat surface) and an alloy head (another flat surface) I would use likely Permatex #2, because I have a large tube of it, and alcohol cleans it off, Now, it is not going to seal a gaping hole, but it would be ok for flat to flat. I use it on the water passages on automotive intake manifolds/ heads and the steel intake gasket, and haven't had one leak yet.

I think your theroy on the 'O ring' area being old, hard and squashed flat (sounds like me after the divorce) is correct. Is Permatex easy to find in the auto store? How long does it take to dry?

Reveeen · 03-05-2010, 12:58 PM

Is Permatex #2 easy to find in the auto store?

It's easy here.....it kind of never "dries", it is extremely sticky/viscous, kind of hard to explain.....you would squeeze some out of the tube on your finger and smear it on the mating surface thinly/evenly, then bolt it up. You will need some alcohol to clean your finger. If you were trying to seal up a copper head gasket you would use their aviation sealer as it withstands high heat. You have to specify #2, as they make a whole range of sealing products, the #2 being general purpose.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut..._2_Sealant.htm

FastDoc · 03-05-2010, 01:04 PM

Thanks. I think that's the answer.

Heres a pic of the flattened O ring 'area' on the old boot. I bet this is my problem:

Reveeen · 03-05-2010, 02:55 PM

The BEST sealer I have ever used was some blue sh*t that I was buying from Chrysler>Rootes group>Simca. I haven't seen it for years, designed to seal up Simca air cooled engines, it would seal up a set of Harley cases 100%. It was very much like the Permatex #2, a little more viscous, and a little stickier, it would harden almost like epoxy. It would seal craters, with given the condition of some old Harley cases, it was a good thing.

FastDoc · 03-05-2010, 10:46 PM

Gotta a tube of Permatex #2 at the store tonight. $6. My gaskets ($11) should be here soon. I'd LOVE if this finishes my project! It is such a nice little bike, and even in its current state rides well, but I know it can run nearly perfectly, and that of course is what I'm after.

FastDoc · 03-10-2010, 12:34 AM

Ebay dude only sent one gasket, there were supposed to be two. I'll buy some gasket material at the auto parts store and trace this one and probably send it back as both gaskets will need to be the same thickness. Nuts.

FastDoc · 03-11-2010, 12:12 AM

The Kawasaki is whole. :P

I made my own gaskets out of gasket material after using the correct one as a template. I sealed it all up with Permatex number 2 and it is leakfree. 8)

My 'hanging idle' was due to greatly imbalanced carbs, one was racing while the other was at idle. Unevenly yoked, as it were. :?

I adjusted them by ear, I'll bring the bike to Andy to get them properly balanced soon.

A wash and a wax, and she's going to be my commuter bike tomorrow.

Weldangrind · 03-11-2010, 12:19 AM

That rocks!

Were you able to set the carbs in a similar fashion, in addition to setting them by ear? What would your friend Andy be able to do beyond that? I'm asking because I have no experience with multiple carbs, and I'm only guessing at the procedure.

FastDoc · 03-11-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

That rocks!

Were you able to set the carbs in a similar fashion, in addition to setting them by ear? What would your friend Andy be able to do beyond that? I'm asking because I have no experience with multiple carbs, and I'm only guessing at the procedure.

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done.

SpudRider · 03-11-2010, 12:44 AM

Thanks for sharing the good news, Doc!

Please let us know how well the bike runs after Andy synchronizes the carbs.

Spud

Weldangrind · 03-11-2010, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done.

That's intriguing...

How do you connect a vacuum guage to the carb? I've done that on Quadrajets to balance both sides, but I haven't seen a vacuum port on a bike carb. Maybe that's unique to multiple carb setups.

SpudRider · 03-11-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Both carbs are hooked to individual vacuum gauges and one is set to the other, at idle. Andy has the instrument (he's a mechanic), and I lost/broke mine years ago. Since carbs so rarely need synchronization I'll just pay to have it done.

That's intriguing...

How do you connect a vacuum guage to the carb? I've done that on Quadrajets to balance both sides, but I haven't seen a vacuum port on a bike carb. Maybe that's unique to multiple carb setups.

Here's a link to a post describing the process, WG.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ho...ync/index.html

Spud

03-05-2010, 12:03 AM	#46
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	In further reference to RTV, it is intended to be colour-coded for a specific application. Clear is for glass, blue is sensor-safe, black is oil and gas resistant and red is high heat. Black would certainly stand up to intake manifold temps. In response to your question, I'd use bulk gasket material that is intended for heat (not cork), and no sealant. If it leaks, you could always dismantle it and try sealant (despite the PITA factor). __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

03-05-2010, 08:02 AM	#48
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I jb welded the carb to the intake manifold on my 86 escort. 8O Worked great. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

03-05-2010, 01:04 PM	#51
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Thanks. I think that's the answer. Heres a pic of the flattened O ring 'area' on the old boot. I bet this is my problem: __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

03-05-2010, 10:46 PM	#53
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Gotta a tube of Permatex #2 at the store tonight. $6. My gaskets ($11) should be here soon. I'd LOVE if this finishes my project! It is such a nice little bike, and even in its current state rides well, but I know it can run nearly perfectly, and that of course is what I'm after. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

03-10-2010, 12:34 AM	#54
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Ebay dude only sent one gasket, there were supposed to be two. I'll buy some gasket material at the auto parts store and trace this one and probably send it back as both gaskets will need to be the same thickness. Nuts. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

03-05-2010, 07:50 AM	#47
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Scratching head...... Seems to me that Mikuni spigot type manifolds have kind of a raised ring on the head side that functions like an O ring creating a seal, Now I know KZ1000's have the same kind of thing, and small Hondas too, so I am wondering if you had the same, and it's just squashed flat, and kind of hardened? The others are right, silicone is a bitch to clean up, so if I was trying to get a seal between semi-hard rubber (a flat surface) and an alloy head (another flat surface) I would use likely Permatex #2, because I have a large tube of it, and alcohol cleans it off, Now, it is not going to seal a gaping hole, but it would be ok for flat to flat. I use it on the water passages on automotive intake manifolds/ heads and the steel intake gasket, and haven't had one leak yet.
	0

03-05-2010, 12:58 PM	#50
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Is Permatex #2 easy to find in the auto store? It's easy here.....it kind of never "dries", it is extremely sticky/viscous, kind of hard to explain.....you would squeeze some out of the tube on your finger and smear it on the mating surface thinly/evenly, then bolt it up. You will need some alcohol to clean your finger. If you were trying to seal up a copper head gasket you would use their aviation sealer as it withstands high heat. You have to specify #2, as they make a whole range of sealing products, the #2 being general purpose. http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut..._2_Sealant.htm
	0

03-05-2010, 02:55 PM	#52
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	The BEST sealer I have ever used was some blue sh*t that I was buying from Chrysler>Rootes group>Simca. I haven't seen it for years, designed to seal up Simca air cooled engines, it would seal up a set of Harley cases 100%. It was very much like the Permatex #2, a little more viscous, and a little stickier, it would harden almost like epoxy. It would seal craters, with given the condition of some old Harley cases, it was a good thing.
	0

03-11-2010, 12:12 AM	#55
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	The Kawasaki is whole. :P I made my own gaskets out of gasket material after using the correct one as a template. I sealed it all up with Permatex number 2 and it is leakfree. 8) My 'hanging idle' was due to greatly imbalanced carbs, one was racing while the other was at idle. Unevenly yoked, as it were. :? I adjusted them by ear, I'll bring the bike to Andy to get them properly balanced soon. A wash and a wax, and she's going to be my commuter bike tomorrow. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

03-11-2010, 12:19 AM	#56
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	That rocks! Were you able to set the carbs in a similar fashion, in addition to setting them by ear? What would your friend Andy be able to do beyond that? I'm asking because I have no experience with multiple carbs, and I'm only guessing at the procedure. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

03-11-2010, 12:44 AM	#58
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Thanks for sharing the good news, Doc! Please let us know how well the bike runs after Andy synchronizes the carbs. Spud __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0