Gio's "new" mini with 110cc - Page 4

TurboT · 11-10-2009, 02:42 AM

Hey Pete,

I know you said it'll be clear with pictures.. but I'm failing to recognize how all four hubs can be the same. Are you meaning same OD to slide into the middle of the wheel rim? Since I'd assume you'd have two with spline receptors and two with wheel bearings?

My thoughts being the Mini Beast and Mini Hummer probably have a larger diameter rear axle and spline so the hub with the splines should be bigger than the mini atv's hub with spline... perhaps I'm way off the rocker here, since I'm shooting my mouth off without completly understanding or seeing the pics.

PCD · 11-10-2009, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboT

Hey Pete,

I know you said it'll be clear with pictures.. but I'm failing to recognize how all four hubs can be the same. Are you meaning same OD to slide into the middle of the wheel rim? Since I'd assume you'd have two with spline receptors and two with wheel bearings?

My thoughts being the Mini Beast and Mini Hummer probably have a larger diameter rear axle and spline so the hub with the splines should be bigger than the mini atv's hub with spline... perhaps I'm way off the rocker here, since I'm shooting my mouth off without completly understanding or seeing the pics.

I see where the confusion arises from now.

NO wheel bearings. All 4 hubs are splined.

I will have pics up in a couple hours max.

TurboT · 11-10-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCD

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboT

Hey Pete,

I know you said it'll be clear with pictures.. but I'm failing to recognize how all four hubs can be the same. Are you meaning same OD to slide into the middle of the wheel rim? Since I'd assume you'd have two with spline receptors and two with wheel bearings?

My thoughts being the Mini Beast and Mini Hummer probably have a larger diameter rear axle and spline so the hub with the splines should be bigger than the mini atv's hub with spline... perhaps I'm way off the rocker here, since I'm shooting my mouth off without completly understanding or seeing the pics.

I see where the confusion arises from now.

NO wheel bearings. All 4 hubs are splined.

I will have pics up in a couple hours max.

Okay didn't expect that.

Have not seen front axles on these quads with splines before.. now I NEED pics for sure. :P Anxiously awaiting those..

PCD · 11-10-2009, 06:30 AM

Fronts have bearings, not splines. I was away from the bike when i said that. My silly mistake.

Now to the facts. Half my pics never turned out, but I have enough to get the point across.

In this first pic you can see the raised step that is on all 4 hubs, is the same height on all 4 hubs, and is the same diameter on all 4 hubs. Both the original mini wheels and the mini beast wheels have a center hole that locates on this diameter.

This next pic is for illustration only, but lets say the step has a diameter of 2 1/4". Remember all 4 hubs are the same on the mini atv, so all 4 have the same 2 1/4" diameter step.

Now, this next pic shows one of the 4 mini beast rims. See the hole in the center of the rim? Well, 2 of my 4 rims that diameter is a shade over 2 1/4" and the rim mounts nicely over the stepped diameter on the hub. Bolt pattern lines up perfectly as well.
I tried both good rims on all 4 hubs. Both rims fit all 4 hubs and the bolt pattern lines up on all 4 hubs.

The OTHER 2 mini beast rims have a diameter of 2" and the bolt pattern is not even close. I tried these 2 bad rims on all 4 hubs and they did not fit.
When you look at this picture, ignore the 60 degree offset in bolt patterns, thats not what the issue is here. Look at the distance of the holes compared to the edge of the big center hole. See how much further away my new holes are? That was how much difference there was between these 2 wheels and the 2 good wheels.

The holes with the washer witness marks are original, the other holes are the ones I just drilled.

In this last pic you can see the hub is mounted and sitting flush on the rim face. We are looking at the "back" of the hub.
The raised step diameter is now residing INSIDE the center hole in the rim. If I had not machined the ID of the center hole in the rim, the hub would just slide around without "dropping in" and seating on the mounting face.
Obviously I had to drill the correct bolt pattern as well.

So...now I have 4 wheels with the same center hole diameter and the same bolt pattern.

I also replaced that mechano set crap they call bolts with 8mm 8.8's and Nyloks.

I suspect that the front and rear hubs on your mini beasts are different. Just a guess, but I suspect it.

The reason I was frustrated earlier is the kid had a PD day..this should have been a 20 minute job to swap wheels, maybe 30 if I was drunk and had a broken arm. No riding for him.

waynev · 11-10-2009, 07:22 AM

I can see how going from a 6" rim to a 7" rim could mean that there are different hubs / bolt patterns for each size, glad to see you got it together.

PCD · 11-10-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynev

I can see how going from a 6" rim to a 7" rim could mean that there are different hubs / bolt patterns for each size, glad to see you got it together.

Yes, but the kicker here waynev is that 2 of the 4 rims were fine, and 2 were not, and yet the box they came in clearly said mini beast rims. The orange painted trim ring also denotes mini beast wheels. Look at the sweet orange one TurboT has for sale.

So if you ordered a straight set of replacement wheels/tires from gio for your mini beast, this is what you would get..2 with a 2.25 ID, and 2 with a 2.0" ID and 2 with a different bolt pattern than the other 2.

Honestly, I really only see two possibilities...either the mini beasts have different front and rear hubs to accomodate the different wheels, or the machining is messed up on 2 of my 4 rims.

Perspective is crappy in the second shot. Tires are quite a bit larger than the originals.

TurboT · 11-10-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCD

Yes, but the kicker here waynev is that 2 of the 4 rims were fine, and 2 were not, and yet the box they came in clearly said mini beast rims. The orange painted trim ring also denotes mini beast wheels. Look at the sweet orange one TurboT has for sale.

So if you ordered a straight set of replacement wheels/tires from gio for your mini beast, this is what you would get..2 with a 2.25 ID, and 2 with a 2.0" ID and 2 with a different bolt pattern than the other 2.

Honestly, I really only see two possibilities...either the mini beasts have different front and rear hubs to accomodate the different wheels, or the machining is messed up on 2 of my 4 rims.

Perspective is crappy in the second shot. Tires are quite a bit larger than the originals.

Hey Pete,

Did you get them on the unit now? How was the clearance for the body kit with the bigger wheels?

I had something else to say but it didn't make sense so I removed it.

Also, I think the Orange Mini Hummer's had the colour strip in the wheel as well, can't confirm since they aren't on the Gio site anymore.. I'm pretty sure the Hummer/Beast wheels are identical.

TurboT · 11-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Funny I didn't see the pictures the first time..

waynev · 11-10-2009, 05:18 PM

Now you have me wondering, my 110cc T1 Rebel also has 3 bolt wheels and the orange models come with the orange trim ring, i wonder if you ended up with 1 set of mini beast wheels and 1 set of the T1 Rebel wheels. Next time i have mine off i will measure them up and report my findings.

PCD · 11-10-2009, 09:50 PM

The Rebel & Mini Beast mix up could certainly be possible. If the tires and rims are the same size then the guy who's packing them would probably just look for the orange painted ring to make a set of 4 and toss em in the box.

Even if he looked at the tire size he could still be fooled. A simple plug gauge would solve the problem. Since we are talking a 1/4" on diameter here it could even be made out of wood. Simple go, no-go gauge.

It was obviously (another) a mistake on gio's part and more than likely some other poor sap now has 2 wheels that dont fit something he owns.

Would be interesting to do a cost analysis on gio's business, especially on time spent on problems of thier own creation. I sincerely doubt "The Chinese" machined thousands of rims with the wrong I.D. and bolt pattern.

The front spacers are going to be easy to fab and I dont think an extra inch will stress things too much.
It will be an inch on each side on the back if that axle fits and an inch each side on the front.

Oh, lots of clearance with the new wheels on. Lock to lock is no issue and there is no rubbing anywhere. You could probably go up one more size pretty easy before it hits the front part of the footwell (or back of the front fender depending on what you want to call it). That spot has the least amount of clearance.

Weldangrind · 11-10-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCD

Oh, lots of clearance with the new wheels on. Lock to lock is no issue and there is no rubbing anywhere. You could probably go up one more size pretty easy before it hits the front part of the footwell (or back of the front fender depending on what you want to call it). That spot has the least amount of clearance.

That's a surprise. The Beast steering shaft lacks a stop, so the tires can actually rub on the control arm at full lock. Makes for wicked doughnuts.

PCD · 11-10-2009, 11:28 PM

Ah yes, but this is the ALL NEW 2010 mini atv with dual exhaust!!!
In fact, the dual exhaust is so stealthy on this mini atv you can't even see it!!!

Notice its not advertised as dual exhaust any more?

Anyway, yes it has bump stops.

PCD · 11-12-2009, 12:42 AM

Just a mod update so I remember what the heck i have left to do and write about.

2010 Mini ATV 110cc
INSTALLED
Racing CDI
NGK Plug
Mini beast wheels & tires
LED tail light

WAITING TO BE INSTALLED
Mikuni performance carb
Front drum brakes
Orange body kit

SHIPPED BUT NOT HERE YET
Dual exhaust
2" wider mini hummer rear axle
C-clips/front axles
3 shocks

FABRICATION
1" or 1.5" front wheel spacers
Handlebar choke

waynev · 11-12-2009, 07:50 AM

Sounds good PCD, you'll be busy this winter. I might add the performance dual exhaust to my son's 50cc, i also have the CDI box on hand so i might put that on too, mine runs great with the stock carb so i think i'll keep my mikuni carb for my T1, i also want to change the front end, i won some of the mini beast spindles so i might fab up some better and longer a-arms and revise the front shock mounts which i hope will both make this quad more stable and soften up the front end.

Oh yeah, check your rear bushings on the swingarm ( where it bolts to the frame), my son's little 50cc hasn't really been out that much and they are shot already.

PCD · 11-12-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynev

Sounds good PCD, you'll be busy this winter. I might add the performance dual exhaust to my son's 50cc, i also have the CDI box on hand so i might put that on too, mine runs great with the stock carb so i think i'll keep my mikuni carb for my T1, i also want to change the front end, i won some of the mini beast spindles so i might fab up some better and longer a-arms and revise the front shock mounts which i hope will both make this quad more stable and soften up the front end.

Oh yeah, check your rear bushings on the swingarm ( where it bolts to the frame), my son's little 50cc hasn't really been out that much and they are shot already.

Yes, I hear you on the front spindles. Now, I'm not going to throw down the gloves, but I think it would be a real challenge to relocate the shock mounts on our 50/110 mini's. There is just so little room man. I'm going to do the springs and move on

I have no burning desire to install the Mikuni (honestly...no, really!) but the kid bugs me about it daily.

Thanks for the bushings tip, I'll check that next time I have it up on the lift.

11-10-2009, 06:30 AM	#49
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	Fronts have bearings, not splines. I was away from the bike when i said that. My silly mistake. Now to the facts. Half my pics never turned out, but I have enough to get the point across. In this first pic you can see the raised step that is on all 4 hubs, is the same height on all 4 hubs, and is the same diameter on all 4 hubs. Both the original mini wheels and the mini beast wheels have a center hole that locates on this diameter. This next pic is for illustration only, but lets say the step has a diameter of 2 1/4". Remember all 4 hubs are the same on the mini atv, so all 4 have the same 2 1/4" diameter step. Now, this next pic shows one of the 4 mini beast rims. See the hole in the center of the rim? Well, 2 of my 4 rims that diameter is a shade over 2 1/4" and the rim mounts nicely over the stepped diameter on the hub. Bolt pattern lines up perfectly as well. I tried both good rims on all 4 hubs. Both rims fit all 4 hubs and the bolt pattern lines up on all 4 hubs. The OTHER 2 mini beast rims have a diameter of 2" and the bolt pattern is not even close. I tried these 2 bad rims on all 4 hubs and they did not fit. When you look at this picture, ignore the 60 degree offset in bolt patterns, thats not what the issue is here. Look at the distance of the holes compared to the edge of the big center hole. See how much further away my new holes are? That was how much difference there was between these 2 wheels and the 2 good wheels. The holes with the washer witness marks are original, the other holes are the ones I just drilled. In this last pic you can see the hub is mounted and sitting flush on the rim face. We are looking at the "back" of the hub. The raised step diameter is now residing INSIDE the center hole in the rim. If I had not machined the ID of the center hole in the rim, the hub would just slide around without "dropping in" and seating on the mounting face. Obviously I had to drill the correct bolt pattern as well. So...now I have 4 wheels with the same center hole diameter and the same bolt pattern. I also replaced that mechano set crap they call bolts with 8mm 8.8's and Nyloks. I suspect that the front and rear hubs on your mini beasts are different. Just a guess, but I suspect it. The reason I was frustrated earlier is the kid had a PD day..this should have been a 20 minute job to swap wheels, maybe 30 if I was drunk and had a broken arm. No riding for him. __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

11-10-2009, 09:50 PM	#55
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	The Rebel & Mini Beast mix up could certainly be possible. If the tires and rims are the same size then the guy who's packing them would probably just look for the orange painted ring to make a set of 4 and toss em in the box. Even if he looked at the tire size he could still be fooled. A simple plug gauge would solve the problem. Since we are talking a 1/4" on diameter here it could even be made out of wood. Simple go, no-go gauge. It was obviously (another) a mistake on gio's part and more than likely some other poor sap now has 2 wheels that dont fit something he owns. Would be interesting to do a cost analysis on gio's business, especially on time spent on problems of thier own creation. I sincerely doubt "The Chinese" machined thousands of rims with the wrong I.D. and bolt pattern. The front spacers are going to be easy to fab and I dont think an extra inch will stress things too much. It will be an inch on each side on the back if that axle fits and an inch each side on the front. Oh, lots of clearance with the new wheels on. Lock to lock is no issue and there is no rubbing anywhere. You could probably go up one more size pretty easy before it hits the front part of the footwell (or back of the front fender depending on what you want to call it). That spot has the least amount of clearance. __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

11-10-2009, 11:28 PM	#57
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	Ah yes, but this is the ALL NEW 2010 mini atv with dual exhaust!!! In fact, the dual exhaust is so stealthy on this mini atv you can't even see it!!! Notice its not advertised as dual exhaust any more? Anyway, yes it has bump stops. __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

11-12-2009, 12:42 AM	#58
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	Just a mod update so I remember what the heck i have left to do and write about. 2010 Mini ATV 110cc INSTALLED Racing CDI NGK Plug Mini beast wheels & tires LED tail light WAITING TO BE INSTALLED Mikuni performance carb Front drum brakes Orange body kit SHIPPED BUT NOT HERE YET Dual exhaust 2" wider mini hummer rear axle C-clips/front axles 3 shocks FABRICATION 1" or 1.5" front wheel spacers Handlebar choke __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

11-10-2009, 02:42 AM	#46
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Hey Pete, I know you said it'll be clear with pictures.. but I'm failing to recognize how all four hubs can be the same. Are you meaning same OD to slide into the middle of the wheel rim? Since I'd assume you'd have two with spline receptors and two with wheel bearings? My thoughts being the Mini Beast and Mini Hummer probably have a larger diameter rear axle and spline so the hub with the splines should be bigger than the mini atv's hub with spline... perhaps I'm way off the rocker here, since I'm shooting my mouth off without completly understanding or seeing the pics.
	0

11-10-2009, 07:22 AM	#50
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	I can see how going from a 6" rim to a 7" rim could mean that there are different hubs / bolt patterns for each size, glad to see you got it together.
	0

11-10-2009, 04:00 PM	#53
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Funny I didn't see the pictures the first time..
	0

11-10-2009, 05:18 PM	#54
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	Now you have me wondering, my 110cc T1 Rebel also has 3 bolt wheels and the orange models come with the orange trim ring, i wonder if you ended up with 1 set of mini beast wheels and 1 set of the T1 Rebel wheels. Next time i have mine off i will measure them up and report my findings.
	0

11-12-2009, 07:50 AM	#59
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	Sounds good PCD, you'll be busy this winter. I might add the performance dual exhaust to my son's 50cc, i also have the CDI box on hand so i might put that on too, mine runs great with the stock carb so i think i'll keep my mikuni carb for my T1, i also want to change the front end, i won some of the mini beast spindles so i might fab up some better and longer a-arms and revise the front shock mounts which i hope will both make this quad more stable and soften up the front end. Oh yeah, check your rear bushings on the swingarm ( where it bolts to the frame), my son's little 50cc hasn't really been out that much and they are shot already.
	0