longest distance traveled on the Hawk or any Chinese enduro - Page 3

XLsior · 02-24-2021, 07:34 AM

Yeah it was done about 10 years ago. But its the pedigree of the engineering. 10years is a fair amount of time to improve and refine.

I tried searching CG250 but most of the results are either from India, SE Asia or South America.

Wild Dog · 02-24-2021, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChillRider

Well...that particular Honda CG125 seems like a vintage, original Japanese model (see the drum brake in the front...). If anything, a testament to the legendary Honda reliability.

In South America, Honda was selling a version of the CG 125 with a front drum brake till the late 00s (2008,2009).
This is a very late Honda CG 125 almost one the last made before Honda ceased to make CG 125.

Name: comparativomoto-13.jpg
Views: 377
Size: 59.9 KB

Name: comparativomoto-13.jpg
Views: 377
Size: 59.9 KB

37800 km is not really that high for a CG, CG clone, YBR, YBR Clone. In fact it is a common km for a motorcycle that is 3 to 4 years old.

An example: Jianshen 125 cc (YBR Clone) 2018 33.000 km.
Name: IMG_7930.JPG
Views: 364
Size: 48.9 KB

Name: IMG_7930.JPG
Views: 364
Size: 48.9 KB

Name: IMG_7933.JPG
Views: 350
Size: 54.7 KB

Name: IMG_7934.JPG
Views: 344
Size: 55.1 KB

You take the screwdriver he uses as ignition key, turn it and it fires like it was made today..

franque · 02-24-2021, 02:01 PM

I think that the biggest difference between the Chinese and Japanese produced CG/CB motors (just the motors, specifically) is that the Japanese were motivated to do the best that they could with the technology that they had in the day. The Chinese are motivated to use technology to be the most profitable that they can be.

Many of the Chinese castings that I've seen (small sample, admittedly) are actually better quality castings, and possibly even better metallurgy than a Honda produced in the 70s or 80s. Honda built their reputation on the quality, reliability, and precision that they were able to produce using the technology available at the time.

I think that, for example, while people on here have seen Chinese made cylinder heads that have core shifted, I think that is more a question of motivation, training, and allowable tolerances within the factory. Something like that likely would never have escaped a Japanese Honda factory at any time, but if you look at the quality of the aluminum used then, vs. today in the Chinese machines, I think that the Chinese are using better materials and making better castings (as long as they're not defective).

I bought a Honda clutch cover to put on my Chinese motor for kickstarter clearance on my XR200, and I was amazed at how much nicer (if uglier, design wise) the casting was on the circa 2005 Zongshen made cover vs. the circa 1975 Honda cover.

Inline with the actual thread, I read an article in Frenc about someone who rode a CG (apparently original piston) with 130,000km from France to Spain, and then throughout Morocco for like 3000km. They broke down in Spain, but it was an ignition issue that they had solved with Chinese parts in Morocco.

I think, echoing what ChillRider and Wilddog were saying, perhaps potential longevity issues are more down to who's riding and maintaining their bike, and the fact that more expensive stuff tends to receive better care than cheaper stuff. I have no doubt that a Chinese CG could do more than 100,000km without changing much, as long as it is properly maintained and not beaten on.

Heck, Spudrider got over 70,000 miles out of his Zongshen Sierra, with I think one piston change?

XLsior · 02-24-2021, 03:45 PM

There's no denying the disparity between the quality of materials or pride in workmanship culture between China and Japan. But as china improves its quality the value per $ is nothing to balk at (politics aside) A new honda CRF250 is about $7500aud I can't justify that amount when China is offering %75 of the bike for %50 the price.

My old Xl185 had 33000km on the odometer some of those being very hard KMs by the state of the bike when I got it. So there's no question the engineering can last.

I was just looking for the longest distance traveled in regards to a single trip with a stock bike running a cg type engine.

Wild Dog · 02-24-2021, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLsior

I was just looking for the longest distance traveled in regards to a single trip with a stock bike running a cg type engine.

Let me put it this way, the weakest link is the rider. I know people that with CG 250 done about 1200 km on a sitting, the only thing that was stiff was their a**

The key point to long rides is don't red line the engine or go top speed.
If you ride the cg250 at around 55 to 60 mph then you can ride it all day if you want, just stop to get more fuel and stretch.

XLsior · 02-24-2021, 07:12 PM

Yes mechanical sympathy plays a massive part. Look at any million mile/km vehicle and you can guarantee that it was cared for with regular maintenance and recommended oil and filter changes on time every time.

There's a saying "every smooth gear shift leads to another" or to that effect.

Post Modern times are getting more complex with a plethora of systems intrinsically dependent on 1 another where any failure could kill the network ending its existence... It's still nice to be able to enjoy a simple thumper pootling along at its own happy rhythm.

XLsior · 02-24-2021, 09:29 PM

Oh btw franque, speaking of build quality I will admit that 1 of the engine mount bolt through holes near the starter motor on my particular Zongshen CG250 isn't quite straight feels like the case was a bit off kilter when they drilled it out. So the Honda bolt doesn't quite meet up with the frame mount on the other side, when all the other mount bolts are installed.

There's definitely still room for improvement, however knowing China I don't think they really care in their disposable cultural mindset.

franque · 02-25-2021, 02:51 AM

Yeah, it's all issue of pride in work, in my opinion. Did you check out the thread from ADVrider I linked earlier? A woman bought a CG 150 enduro and rode it all across South America.

XLsior · 02-25-2021, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

Yeah, it's all issue of pride in work, in my opinion. Did you check out the thread from ADVrider I linked earlier? A woman bought a CG 150 enduro and rode it all across South America.

Can't find any link in regards to that ADVrider thread.

franque · 02-25-2021, 07:23 AM

Hmm, I thought I posted it here, anyway: https://advrider.com/f/threads/aroun...150cc.1161843/

Wild Dog · 02-25-2021, 08:24 AM

She choose wisely. She was a novice rider back then, got a pretty tame motorcycle and with an engine that is extremly common in the area.

Some people want to ride south america, they travel here with the "uber rare brand X" then they find out that there spare parts for their machines are very very hard to find next to impossible.

TxTaoRider · 02-25-2021, 09:31 AM

Sounds to me like someone should plan a road trip across the US and back. Post up a schedule and if we can meet up and ride a some distance together and make it a Chinariders event.

China Rider 27 · 02-25-2021, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

Sounds to me like someone should plan a road trip across the US and back. Post up a schedule and if we can meet up and ride a some distance together and make it a Chinariders event.

I am going to retire in little over a year. I have been thinking a lot about doing the TAT and some with the HAWK or getting a DRZ 400 and converting it to adventure style. Probably need another carburetor to get over those mountains. I need a good mechanic along, MegaDan, JerryHawk250, anybody else?

TxTaoRider · 02-25-2021, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

I am going to retire in little over a year. I have been thinking a lot about doing the TAT and some with the HAWK or getting a DRZ 400 and converting it to adventure style. Probably need another carburetor to get over those mountains. I need a good mechanic along, MegaDan, JerryHawk250, anybody else?

There is a section of that that I'd be able to ride with you.
A couple main jets and a small screwdriver to adjust the idle mixture and maybe change the needle position and it should be good.

Oldenslow · 02-25-2021, 10:05 AM

Longest one-day trip so far -- 100 miles from home to my family's vacation house in Flat Rock, NC, on my Dongfang DF250RTG. Stuck to secondary roads, maximum speed limit 55. Two days later, rode it back home. Zero problems, other than the discomfort that's inevitable when a big guy rides a small bike a long way.

My main tip for anyone contemplating a long ride on one of these bikes -- don't get in a hurry. You're not going to get there ahead of anyone else, unless they're walking, so take your time and enjoy the ride!

02-24-2021, 03:45 PM	#34
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,318	There's no denying the disparity between the quality of materials or pride in workmanship culture between China and Japan. But as china improves its quality the value per $ is nothing to balk at (politics aside) A new honda CRF250 is about $7500aud I can't justify that amount when China is offering %75 of the bike for %50 the price. My old Xl185 had 33000km on the odometer some of those being very hard KMs by the state of the bike when I got it. So there's no question the engineering can last. I was just looking for the longest distance traveled in regards to a single trip with a stock bike running a cg type engine. Last edited by XLsior; 02-24-2021 at 05:24 PM.
	0

02-25-2021, 09:31 AM	#42
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	Sounds to me like someone should plan a road trip across the US and back. Post up a schedule and if we can meet up and ride a some distance together and make it a Chinariders event. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	0

02-24-2021, 07:34 AM	#31
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,318	Yeah it was done about 10 years ago. But its the pedigree of the engineering. 10years is a fair amount of time to improve and refine. I tried searching CG250 but most of the results are either from India, SE Asia or South America.
	0

02-24-2021, 02:01 PM	#33
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	I think that the biggest difference between the Chinese and Japanese produced CG/CB motors (just the motors, specifically) is that the Japanese were motivated to do the best that they could with the technology that they had in the day. The Chinese are motivated to use technology to be the most profitable that they can be. Many of the Chinese castings that I've seen (small sample, admittedly) are actually better quality castings, and possibly even better metallurgy than a Honda produced in the 70s or 80s. Honda built their reputation on the quality, reliability, and precision that they were able to produce using the technology available at the time. I think that, for example, while people on here have seen Chinese made cylinder heads that have core shifted, I think that is more a question of motivation, training, and allowable tolerances within the factory. Something like that likely would never have escaped a Japanese Honda factory at any time, but if you look at the quality of the aluminum used then, vs. today in the Chinese machines, I think that the Chinese are using better materials and making better castings (as long as they're not defective). I bought a Honda clutch cover to put on my Chinese motor for kickstarter clearance on my XR200, and I was amazed at how much nicer (if uglier, design wise) the casting was on the circa 2005 Zongshen made cover vs. the circa 1975 Honda cover. Inline with the actual thread, I read an article in Frenc about someone who rode a CG (apparently original piston) with 130,000km from France to Spain, and then throughout Morocco for like 3000km. They broke down in Spain, but it was an ignition issue that they had solved with Chinese parts in Morocco. I think, echoing what ChillRider and Wilddog were saying, perhaps potential longevity issues are more down to who's riding and maintaining their bike, and the fact that more expensive stuff tends to receive better care than cheaper stuff. I have no doubt that a Chinese CG could do more than 100,000km without changing much, as long as it is properly maintained and not beaten on. Heck, Spudrider got over 70,000 miles out of his Zongshen Sierra, with I think one piston change?
	0

02-24-2021, 07:12 PM	#36
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,318	Yes mechanical sympathy plays a massive part. Look at any million mile/km vehicle and you can guarantee that it was cared for with regular maintenance and recommended oil and filter changes on time every time. There's a saying "every smooth gear shift leads to another" or to that effect. Post Modern times are getting more complex with a plethora of systems intrinsically dependent on 1 another where any failure could kill the network ending its existence... It's still nice to be able to enjoy a simple thumper pootling along at its own happy rhythm.
	1

02-24-2021, 09:29 PM	#37
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,318	Oh btw franque, speaking of build quality I will admit that 1 of the engine mount bolt through holes near the starter motor on my particular Zongshen CG250 isn't quite straight feels like the case was a bit off kilter when they drilled it out. So the Honda bolt doesn't quite meet up with the frame mount on the other side, when all the other mount bolts are installed. There's definitely still room for improvement, however knowing China I don't think they really care in their disposable cultural mindset.
	0

02-25-2021, 02:51 AM	#38
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	Yeah, it's all issue of pride in work, in my opinion. Did you check out the thread from ADVrider I linked earlier? A woman bought a CG 150 enduro and rode it all across South America.
	0

02-25-2021, 07:23 AM	#40
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	Hmm, I thought I posted it here, anyway: https://advrider.com/f/threads/aroun...150cc.1161843/
	0

02-25-2021, 08:24 AM	#41
Wild Dog Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Argentina Posts: 756	She choose wisely. She was a novice rider back then, got a pretty tame motorcycle and with an engine that is extremly common in the area. Some people want to ride south america, they travel here with the "uber rare brand X" then they find out that there spare parts for their machines are very very hard to find next to impossible.
	0

02-25-2021, 10:05 AM	#45
Oldenslow Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 153	Longest one-day trip so far -- 100 miles from home to my family's vacation house in Flat Rock, NC, on my Dongfang DF250RTG. Stuck to secondary roads, maximum speed limit 55. Two days later, rode it back home. Zero problems, other than the discomfort that's inevitable when a big guy rides a small bike a long way. My main tip for anyone contemplating a long ride on one of these bikes -- don't get in a hurry. You're not going to get there ahead of anyone else, unless they're walking, so take your time and enjoy the ride!
	0