X-Pro 150cc // Vader 150 // Lifan 150

[ProDigit]

I just swapped the 35 pilot to a 38 pilot jet.
Idle has become slightly less stable, but still well within expectations.

I upped the main jet from 110 to 115, adjusted 3-4 turns on the AF screw to 1.5 turns, and the bike was stoic all the way through the rev range; however, once the bike was warmed up, it did stutter at WOT, which indicates it was running rich. This due to my muffler, I'm not running a fully open muffler anymore.
The bike also has gained a more consistent acceleration from 1-6k RPM, where as before it would kind of run a little off between 5-6k RPM.
The 6-7K RPM acceleration bump is still there.

I went through the jets, to see if I had a 112 main jet, and found something peculiar,
The 110 jet on my bike was larger than the 110 jet included in the kit.
I have a drill that fits one, but doesn't fit the other.
So what I did, was use the drill on the old 110 jet, to drill it out closer to a 112 jet.
Just put the jet on a rotating drill, and slightly have it file off the sides.
While I can't say for certain the size of the jet, it appears to me to be larger than 110, but smaller than a 115, so somewhere between a 111-114; 112-113 more precisely.

Once mounted the carburetor again, the idle to 5k RPM runs great with the AF screw 2-2.5 turns out, however the top end still seems rich (no burping).
So I turned the AF screw to 1-1 1/4 turn out, and idle to 5k rpm is still good (slightly lower acceleration on the butt dyno), but top end sounds like it's pretty spot on.

Top speed funny enough, hasn't changed. Drafting trucks it slowly creeps to 77-78MPH (72MPH).
If anything, this bike likes to run a bit leaner on the top end; probably due to it's lower compression ratios.

That being said, the 38 pilot is a huge improvement over the 35 pilot, while the 110 to 112 main jet only reduced exhaust noise a bit.

That defines the boundaries of the jetting on the stock engine in my area.



I've been on the fence to get a bigger or smaller rear sprocket, while still being able to maintain top speed if needed.
When running in 4th gear, the bike easily reaches 63 MPH with the 19/30T sprocket setup, and seems it has some extra to go.

So instead of trying to go faster in 5th, I'll try to maintain 65MPH in 4th instead, and leave 5th gear for <50mph downtown runs, or tailgating trucks with a tailwind maybe getting it up to 79MPH.

I'll be ordering a 29T rear sprocket instead of a 31 or 32T in the near future.

But before that, I'd like to see some more data on running 10W40 motorcycle oil vs current 10W30 car engine oil.

So one of my first projects will be an oil change to motorcycle oil.

[ProDigit]

Now that I've got over 1k miles on the bike, I've done my first oil change to 10W40.

After the break-in, I can testify that 10W40 is the better oil for this bike.
The difference between the 10w30 I used before and the 10w40 I used now, is:

1- less vibrations. The plastics aren't making as much noise as they did with the 10W30 oil, which indicates that this is the better oil.

2- the idle went from ~1250rpm on 10w30 down to <1k rpm on 10W40.
On cold it stalled, so needing to up the idle rpm.

3- top speed lowered from ~79mph indicated to ~77mpg indicated.

After the oil change, I swapped exhausts. Same exhaust, but with a different muffler allowing for more airflow with slightly less exhaust noise.
This adjusted my AF ratios, to slightly less torque at lower rpms.
The exhaust seems to derestrict the power loss past 7k rpm. Where as before, the bike has a torque increase between 6-7k rpm, it now is less noticeable between 6-8k rpm, with much less vibrations along the way.

I think I've fully tuned the bike.

My next project will be replace theb150cc engine with a CG250 engine.
The 150 has too little torque to be on the highway. The 250 has more, which can be converted to HP with taller gear ratios, allowing me to get closer to highway speeds than with the 150cc engine.
Apparently there also is a cheaper CG200 engine, which would have been better for me (adding just the power I need, and maintaining respectable fuel efficiency). It's only 31cc smaller than the CG250, however the 250 is what I have at home now.

[ProDigit]

Ready for a new project, which I suspect wont lead to much.
Current bike runs a pz27 carburetor, and idle is rock solid. Top speed, I wished I had a little more; but I already maximized intake and exhaust.

I know the pz27 is made for the 150, but I just wanted to see what would happen if I installed a PZ30 on it.

From research online, it appears that a larger carburetor, will require larger jets.
My PZ27 configuration is 38 pilot, and 112 main.
The PZ30 came with OEM with a 38 pilot and a 108 main, which I swapped for a 42 pilot, and a 115 main. Just a modest jump up, which I'll change depending on how the bike responds.
I just want to see if it's possible to run the bike with a PZ30.

I hope I'll have the time to tune the bike this weekend, and that I have some results (whether good or bad) to share.

I do still have the PZ27, which I can swap back after all is said and done, unless if there's a way to make the PZ30 work better than the 27; much like how many Vader 125 users install a 24 carburetor instead of the 22mm that comes with it.

From the factory, my PZ30 had a float axle issue, where the axle just fell out.
I had to squeeze the steel float mounts for the axle to fit snugly in, so it won't fall out anymore. I presume more people might have similar problems, where the float doesn't work anymore, due to a loose axle.

Hopefully I'll have more results on Saturday or Sunday.

[ProDigit]

Shows that online advice can be wrong.

I installed the pz30 carburetor, and initially it had some issues, like high idle (stuck air intake tube). Once figured out, the bike ran way too rich.
I went back to the OEM carburetor settings of a 38 pilot and 108 main (compared to the 38 pilot and 112 main on the pz27, its about the same jets), AF screw all the way in, and it ran a lot better. Shows not all on the inets is correct.

The choke really revs the bike high, but it idles fine and rides fine in my initial testing. Bike hasn't ran hot yet with the PZ30.

High speed tests later today.

[ProDigit]

Initial test results are in.
The PZ30 runs quite smooth as a carburetor.
So, can you use a PZ30 instead of a 27? Yes you can.
But should you?

About rough idle, yes, cold it would run at below 800rpm, while hot it ran above 1800rpm.
I've set the idle to 1250-1500rpm hot, resulting in the bike to need the choke (or throttle) to warm up. Thankfully after less than 10-20 seconds, the bike idles above 1k rpm.
Unlike the PZ27, where idle remains pretty much spot on the idle rpm, with the 30, the idle shifts 100-200 rpms occasionally, especially when the bike is cooling off.

As far as running rich or lean, I've added fuel on the AF screw. 1.5 rotations, and it's pretty stoic. Top end runs a bit lean, but I don't notice any burping or variations in acceleration or cruising.
The PZ30 I had bought from Alibaba was tuned pretty much spot on..

As far as the butt dyno goes, it's hard to say. I feel like the bike got a tiny bit less torque, compared to the PZ27. It's hard to tell, if I had to say, maybe 5% less torque.
I tried seeing if it had to do with the AF settings, but even this don't really adds any torque.

Was hoping to at least get a better top end, but also that was unsuccessful.
While I haven't really tuned the carburetor to perfection, it's roughly 5mph slower than the PZ27. I did use a different pod airfilter with a bend, rather than a straight one, but can't see this being responsible for the 5mph lower top speed.
I'm still going to run this setup for a while, to fine tune it.

PZ basically sells a 19, 20, 26, 27, and 30 of their carburetors.
I don't know if I should even try the 26...

So, overall, if you have a Condor/Vader 150, stick with the PZ27.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

While I haven't really tuned the carburetor to perfection, it's roughly 5mph slower than the PZ27. I did use a different pod airfilter with a bend, rather than a straight one, but can't see this being responsible for the 5mph lower top

You're making lots of changes, but are they being done one at a time, and properly tuned, to determine the actual result of that change, or are they being done with multiple other changes?

I actually agree with sticking to the PZ27 over the 30 on a CG150, but I do want to point out that 5mph loss in top speed and not being tuned properly will go hand in hand. If you dial in the main jet, that 5mph would come back, but you likely wouldn't gain anything extra.

A larger carb on it's own won't give any real power gains if the engine is already meeting it's airflow demands on a smaller one. I have this argument with people all the time when they stick a PE30 Nibbi on a more or less stock CG250 engine. I run a VM26 30mm clone on my big bore, ported, and cammed CG250. Same top speed as the bikes with the smooth bore PE30. All the larger throttle bore gives is more frontal area at the slide, so you get more air sooner at the same throttle position, making for a snappier feeling throttle response. Usually accompanied by a rather flat or dead feeling spot around wide open throttle, simply because the engine can't flow any more air than the carb can supply.

[ProDigit]

^-- true. On this carburetor it's pretty much full power at 50% throttle or above, until I gain speed, then perhaps 75-100% of throttle nets the same engine output on the butt dyno.

I wasn't expecting major performance increases, just wanted to see what would happen if I did put a PZ30 on.
Idle is a bit off (bouncing 100-200 rpm around idle), but not unmanageable, or even that strange. Only few mechanics would even notice.

And from my research on the pz27 and the PZ30 conversion, it looks like both carburetors use about the exact same jets.
Could also be because the intake adapter became (or always was) the biggest air restrictor.

[ProDigit]

Ok, I missed something.
Since I live in Florida, and hardly ever use the choke, I saved some money by buying a carburetor that had a choke switch, rather than choke by wire; a switch that was rather hard to reach when riding.

This carburetor has 3 settings.
Off, low and high choke.
Apparently I had turned on the choketo high, and then clicked it upwards; riding and tuning the bike in that setting; not knowing the choke wasn't in the 'off' setting, but in the low setting.

Now it all makes sense why the PZ30 performed lower than the 27.
My bike was tuned alright, with the choke on low.

In the off setting the bike couldn't idle well, and stalled often, and could only ride with up to 50% throttle, to 5k rpm.

Means both pilot (38) and main (108) will need to be increased, back to a 40 and 115 for starters.

So this weekend, I'll have to rejet it again, now with the choke to the 'off' position...

Kind of an embarrassing mistake...������

[ProDigit]

So the PZ27 I had tuned, with a 112 main and a 38 pilot, I now did a carburetor swap to a PZ30.
My initial testing are that the 38 pilot and 108 main which comes with the PZ30 works perfect with the choke halfway, but is too lean with the choke off.

Instead I plugged in the next best thing I had which was a 42 pilot and a 115 main, and it runs a bit on the rich side.
Idle warms up nicely, and revs very linear from idle to 8k RPM, unlike the PZ27 which had a bump of power between 6-7k RPM, but the 30 occasionally stutters at WOT.

I'm waiting for more jets to arrive in 2 weeks, but reading from current setup, I'd have to go from a 38 pilot and 112 main, to a 40 pilot and the same 112 main on the PZ30.

Meaning, if everything will be how I expect it to go, for idle, I will need just a size smaller pilot jet (40) compared to what I have now, or a size larger from the PZ27.
Maybe the size difference between the PZ27 and PZ30 is too small to affect jet sizes in a significant way.

As far as performance goes, they both are about as fast (maybe 1 to 2MPH faster on the PZ30), but I feel the PZ27 seems to give me more torque.
I know I'm a little lean in the mid range on the PZ 30; but once I decrease idle and main jet size, I might actually lift the needle with a washer, to regain that torque.

[ProDigit]

I found a 40 pilot jet. Starts a little rough, but idles fine once warmed up.
Also changed the 115 main jet to the bored out 112 (originally a 108).
I added some extra on the AF screw, but now it's still running lean on the top end (75%-100%).
Unfortunately, I don't have anything better to dial out the lean condition on the top end.
Either a 115 (too rich) or a 108 bored out to a 112 (too lean).

The rest, 0-75% is extremely smooth and linear. Like most Japanese bikes I've owned.

This coming week I'll try to see how MPG is with the new jetting and carburetor.
I also will want to swap out the pod air filter with curved connection to one with a straight connection.

As far as power goes, same power as with a PZ27, just more linear, and butt dyno says it's slightly less torquey. Still need to raise the needle, forgot about that.

As far as the sprockets, I bought a 19T on amazon. It needed some grinding down on the crank case.
Many users have reported that the 19 or 18T doesn't clear the Condor 150, however the 18T cleared my Vader 150 just fine, including with the sprocket cover on. I presumed the Condor and the Vader 150 were the same, but I could be wrong about that.
I did use the stock chain, which may be a bit narrower than some aftermarket, heavy duty chains.
For the 19T to fit, you need to grind down a part on the front of the sprocket cover.
The 19T and stock chain will clear the engine case by 1mm facing forward, but the chain will grind down <1mm of the casing in the direction of the brake pedal.

The rear sprocket is a 30T, which I will swap to a 29T soon. The bike now makes enough power to get up to top speed (60-63MPH with a head wind, and 67-68 MPH with a tail wind) in 4th gear, so the 29T will make top speed slightly faster in 4th, and 5th gear will be mostly for cruising downtown (30-55 MPH indicated, or, if I get a tail wind or have a car cut the wind in front of me, the bike does reach 79MPH indicated; equivalent of roughly 73-74MPH).

The bike easily gains 10-20MPH when tucking in. Sitting upright, and the top speed drops by the same amount, so getting 63MPH GPS verified while sitting upright is kind of tough.

I'm not looking for torque, but for top speed and MPG.
The bike makes enough torque from 1st to 3rd, and in 4th it's kind of tapering off due to the engine's low power output.

This kind of gearing will work well with the CG250, however, I feel like the CG250 will consume a lot more fuel (larger engine, doing the same amount of revs per MPH).

[ProDigit]

Today I modified my carburetor again.

The first thing I noticed, was that the bike ran quite lean, and was hard to start cold.
It also lacked some of that mid-RPM power.
Likewise, top end was suffering because of a too lean condition.

I didn't want to install a 115 main jet, as the bike would start to stutter at WOT, so I kept my 112 main jet installed.

I knew the 40 pilot was too lean, and the AF screw was almost all the way out; so I swapped my 40 pilot for a 42 pilot.

That seemed to really make a difference on cold starts.

I then raised the needle by 1 slot.

After playing with the AF screw, I could now close the AF screw completely, to get the best idle RPM dialed in.

Raising the needle by 1 slot, didn't do too much noticeable change in terms of mid-rpm acceleration, but it definitely did something.
I'm fairly sure if I had raised the needle by 1 more slot, it would have accelerated much better; but on the other hand, would also used up more fuel for coasting.

You don't want to have great acceleration, at the cost of wasting fuel when coasting, possibly even burping or losing power due to a rich burn.

While the carburetor was off, I looked at the intake manifold, and the plastic spacer was mounted incorrectly (upside down, causing a lip of about 2mm of air restriction).

I rotated the spacer in the correct orientation, and used a dremel to dremel out tiny ridges you normally wouldn't notice. Just rubbing my nail on them, made me notice them, and dremeling them flush with the tubing would definitely improve airflow.

Same at the carburetor side, the spacer provided with the bike fit the PZ27 correctly, however, the PZ30 has a slightly larger air exit, so I needed to dremel/sand off the plastic ridges to make everything flush.

If you're one of those guys who think a polished carburetor will improve performance, you'd most surely agree that sanding and polishing ridges off of spacers, would improve performance, no?

Well, I got bad news for you all. Because if the removal of 2mm ridges in the intake port didn't improve performance, then polished innards of a carburetor won't improve performance either.
And it didn't do squad in terms of performance.
In theory the bike now has a 2-5% wider air intake port (due to the removal of the ridges), but in practice, it didn't work out to a noticeable performance gain.

What did help, was raising the needle to get slightly better acceleration, while not burning too rich.
Overall, I'm content with the bike as is.

It did 65 MPH indicated in 4th gear on the highway (@8k RPM), and 75-77 MPH in 5th gear (also at 8k RPM), with cars cutting the wind in front of me) today.

I know if I want to go any faster, I'll need to get more torque out of the engine, which this engine isn't able to provide (unless I'd be playing with compression ratios, timing, and valves).
And since this is a commuter bike, which I'd mostly use in town, not on the highway,
I decided to order a 29T rear sprocket.
That way, I can run in town up to 50MPH very comfortably, and highway speeds up to 67MPH indicated in 4th gear. I will probably lose some speed in 5th gear on the highway, because even a 19/30T is a hard pull for that engine at highway speeds.

[ProDigit]

Learned something new today.
My bike was having hiccups with the 112 main jet, indicating a slightly rich burn, but I didn't have a 110 main jet available anymore.
And if I did, it would run lean.
The only alternative was to lower my idle jet back to a 40.
At the same time I went from pos 2 to pos 1 from the bottom (raise jet needle to the max).
This would cause overall less fuel to enter the carburetor, but raising the needle would allow more fuel at lower rpm.

Idle was way too rich, so I had to close the fuel screw, which led to a very unstable idle.
I presume that the fuel distribution of the main jet is very unstable at low rpms, due to the fuel having to travel up the narrow space between the jet and jet needle; possibly resulting in one drop of fuel being released and causing a rich burn, and at other times just not enough vacuum forces to get a drop of fuel, causing the bike to perform less during that stroke at idle.
One drop of fuel more or less per stroke, and during load isn't going to be as detrimental as during idle.

After I raised the needle to the max and close the AF screw (which is more like a fuel enricher jet), the bike idled bad cold, idled slightly unstable hot, but ran very good at low rpm, due to running too rich.
On the other side, the top end didn't get richer, because the main jet remained the same, and swapping out the 42 pilot with AF screw closed, for a 40 pilot with AF screw all the way open, nets roughly the same fuel provision into the engine.

During normal cruising I did notice hiccups when releasing the throttle at 10-50%.
I can conclude that the bike was running very rich, and when I released the throttle to cruise, the jet needle went more into its closed position, pushing some fuel out the jet tube, causing a rich burn and hiccups.

I knew going back to position 2 would result in too lean burn, so I set the clip back to 2nd position (slightly raised from stock, same position as before), and I put a thin washer under the clip. The overall position would end up being right between position 1 (richest) and 2 (slightly richer burn).

To adjust for the leaner burn due to lowering the needle, causing an even more unstable idle, I opened the AF screw once more to 1.5 turns.
This resulted in a much stabler idle, at the cost of less performance (but still slightly rich burn) between 10-50%.
I didn't notice any burping at wot, or cruising, but performance is noticeably lower.
I did have to turn the AF screw 2.5 turns, as the bike was running slightly lean between 50-70% (I can tell by the exhaust tone).

I know it should run a little leaner at idle, and richer between 10-75%.
The only way to do that is an even leaner pilot, and raising the needle to the max again. But that would cause an unstable idle.
Considering the situation, I think I will settle to a 40 pilot, 112 main, and needle raised to 1.5 /5 (rich burn).

[ProDigit]

The 29t arrived, and for a commuter bike, that 29t on the rear, with a 19T on the front feels so good. It's the first gear normal bikes should have had.
If this bike only would maintain the fun acceleration in 3rd and 4th gear.. but for that I'd need a better engine.

While I won't be first off the line in a sprint, 1st gear accelerated really well, 2nd gear is good (especially at 6k rpm), 3rd gear accelerated pretty normal, 4th gear accelerates very slow all the way to top speed, and 5th gear works really well in traffic. With a slight headwind, it tops out at 45mph, but as long as I can get it to go to 6k rpm, either by having a vehicle cut the wind in front of me, or tuk in, to cut down on wind resistance, the bike will keep accelerating to about 7k.
There's a dead spot between 5-5.6k rpm where the bike runs lean, but once I pass that , especially nearing 5900rpm, it seems like the bike runs a lot better there (probably uses a lot more fuel as well).
I haven't really gone all out in 5th, but I've seen 67 mph indicated, moving with traffic, behind other cars cutting my wind; and I wasn't even tucked.
Even with a 19/29t setup, I manage to move in traffic just fine, not lead traffic, but follow, with some throttle spare.

Most of my test rides were around 50mph, 52mph indicated, which coincidentally is also very close to 5k rpm, the golden 100/1 ratio for 150ccs (at least for overhead cam engines; like do 3500rpm at 35mph).
5k rpm also was the leanest part of the bike's fuel mixture and where it has the least amount of power. To get over that speed/rpm barrier I needed to tuk down to have it go up to 6k rpm where the bike made more power.

But that 5k rpm run should result in some interesting fuel economy numbers. If I push it, I might actually hit 70mpg (my last readout was 68 mpg).

I'm currently at 1500+ miles, and the bike seems much more eager to hit 8500rpm in 3rd or lower than before.

Lastly, the cush drive dampers are of good quality, but they did wear out a bit over the past 1500 miles.
I took the sprocket adapter/hub out, and taped the back ridges with regular old duct tape. While I did a single layer, looking back, I should have used 2 layers instead. It firmed up the cush drive again, reducing slack.
This is a cheap china bike after all, and I want to fix things as cheap as possible.
Duct tape to the rescue on my motorcycle!!!

[ProDigit]

Today, I took off the 120/70 12 front tire, and replaced it with a new 130/70 12 tire. It's basically the same tire as the rear tire, on the front.
It fits fine, but had to go to a shop to get the bead to seat.

The new tire will be about 3% taller, causing my speedo (being 7% off OEM) to now only overread by 3-4%.

It also looks a bit cooler, having the same fat tire on the front as the rear.

Will do a test ride soon to see if everything works the way it should, but from the initial test (started raining, so I didn't test it well), there seems to be no rubbing. I have about 5-10 mm on the sides and top left.

I also replaced my 12V 7.5A battery, with a $50 2.5A lithium battery.
I'm beginning to think that a 3.5A battery for this 150cc bike would have been a safer option.
The OEM battery weighed between 5-7lbs. The new battery literally weighed then same as the empty cardboard box it was in. Literally less than 1 lbs. Took also about 1/2 the space as the OEM battery.
I used some of the foam that came with the bike, to have the battery safely clamped down.
It's got a cranking amps of 80A, and starts the Vader just fine.
It was charged up to 90%, but the level dropped to 30% after a few starts.
I couldn't test a lot, but what I did notice was that the lead acid battery had a charge voltage of roughly 14-14.7V at high revs.
The charge voltage seemed to drop to 13.6V with the lithium battery, even when revving up.
The battery terminals never saw more than that. Still, I bought welder diodes, which I will put in-line with the positive terminal soon, to lower the charge voltage, as well as the discharge voltage.
The lead acid ran at 12.7V with headlight on, and the lithium at 13.35V.

[ProDigit]

2+k miles update:

So far the bike has been good to me.
Aside from the missing loctite for the bolts and nuts under the headlight (ignition switch almost fell out), and the fuel gauge stopped working, the only other issue I had was the rear valve stem started leaking.

Also, the non-dot rear tire was extremely slippery on wet roads.

So today I installed a new valve stem, and swapped the 130/70 12 tire with a 140/70 12.
Needless to say, it handles so much better in turns on wet tarmac, and for cruising it is just perfect under 50mph.

The tire size is currently the largest I could find fitting a 12" rim, at about 3% taller circumference; making this the Vader with the tallest possible gearing 19/29 and a 3% taller rear tire.

It's not going to impress anyone at it's pickup speed. In fact, acceleration now has to be done around 6-7k rpm to be slightly faster than traffic, and cruising can easily be done between 3 to 5k rpm (30-50mph in 5th), which is just perfect for me.

I haven't yet done a top speed run, but with cars in front of me, 60-65mph GPS isn't too hard to do in both 4th or 5th.