CSC SG400's Are Finally In

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

And just exactly how much are you willing to spend for an air/oil cooled 650cc motorcycle? After you go and tear apart your new bike, add a S&S big bore kit, swap the cam, install new connecting rods, flash a new ECU tune, put on a new exhaust to take advantage of the engine mods, change out the clip ons and rear sets, and swap the fairings, I'm pretty sure you're going to end up with a $9000 - $10,000 70 HP bike, at best. At this point, Yamaha will be happy to sell you an XSR 700 (way better engine) or XSR900 (super way better engine) that will blow it out of the water from a cost and performance standpoint, and still leave a good chunk of change in your pocket. Honda will gladly set you up with a CB650R with a sweet inline four for the same amount, too.

For myself, I am not looking to buy a brand new bike, then turn around, tear it apart, and attempt to rebuild it into something that already exists, and in a much better guise. I want a low cost, sub 650cc parallel twin bike, with moderate power, more style than me (a low bar, I'll admit), low weight, low to no electronics, $200 a year full coverage insurance (that includes break down and towing coverage), and built by a company with a reputation for putting out quality product. Hello Zongshen RE3/CSC SG400. It ticks all the boxes for $5500.00, delivered to my doorstep. What more can you ask for than that?

If I need more than the SG400's 40 HP, I'll hop on my Versys 650 or Gold Wing GL1500 to scratch that itch, not blow a ton of money trying to make it or a RE 650 into something that they're not.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

The performance aftermarket isn't really what I am after though. I have a nearly 200hp vfr1200f if I get the speed demon itch. The only aftermarket that appeals to me is the suspension and seat side.of things, because as previously mentioned, I am a big and tall kind of guy, and I usually have to adjust the bikes factory setup to match me.

My main interest in either bike is just a easy highway capable and fun commuter that has really good economy.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

By the time you are done doing all those mods, the motorcycle would end up being as expensive as a Japanese 650 and guess what? It will be still underpowered next to the Japs 650.

Royal Enfield ain't for the speedster.
Their engines are workhorse not racehorse , just take a look at their designs at their specs and you will see what i mean.

[Chris_Top_Her]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

By the time you are done doing all those mods, the motorcycle would end up being as expensive as a Japanese 650 and guess what? It will be still underpowered next to the Japs 650.

Royal Enfield ain't for the speedster.
Their engines are workhorse not racehorse , just take a look at their designs at their specs and you will see what i mean.

Point being if you are considering a 650 INT, it wouldn't make sense to buy an sg400 for those reasons and more. Also, I'm unaware of what 650's you are referring to (a 650 Yamaha vstar is a cruiser, the only one coming to mind).

I don't really run into people who aren't interested in modifying their bike. I'm in several local motorcycle groups of varying types of bikes.. that idea of cost for a mod is irrelevant. People put exhausts on their bikes that cost $1-2k on a regular basis.. $500 tunes, expensive lighter wheels, aftermarket suspension etc.. cost doesn't matter if someone has a bike they want. Especially when it differentiates their from the hundreds of other bikes in the rides/groups/meets. People put a lot of money into 600 sports bikes on a regular basis.. why not just buy a 1000cc? Not applicable.

[wheelbender6]

Riders that mod their engines usually don't do it for the power increase alone. A lot of them do mods because they just enjoy the tinkering and tuning. They are not trying to keep up with Hayabusas.

[2LZ]

I'm not sure why we're comparing a 650 to a 400. Totally different beasts, unless I'm missing something here.

Like WZS, I'm also a multiple CSC bike purchaser and have been totally happy with the products and support I've received, for all the same reasons he listed. I've also done just as well on the resale as any Japanese bikes I've owned, if that makes a difference to a person.

I'd like to try the Haylon, myself. Looks like a nice canyon carver for our roads up here in the sticks.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

that idea of cost for a mod is irrelevant. People put exhausts on their bikes that cost $1-2k on a regular basis.. $500 tunes, expensive lighter wheels, aftermarket suspension etc.. cost doesn't matter if someone has a bike they want. Especially when it differentiates their from the hundreds of other bikes in the rides/groups/meets.

If the main point of modding the motorcycle is not power but making it look "unique" then by that logic any motorcycle has unlimited potential.
In fact we could say that the SG400 will even have the uncommon tag

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

People put a lot of money into 600 sports bikes on a regular basis.. why not just buy a 1000cc? Not applicable.

If you buy a CB650r and put like 1k or 2k to make it more powerful, then you should have gone with a CB1000r

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I'm not sure why we're comparing a 650 to a 400. Totally different beasts, unless I'm missing something here.

Me neither, not even the engines on those motorcycle were not made for the same purpose...

[Chris_Top_Her]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I'm not sure why we're comparing a 650 to a 400. Totally different beasts, unless I'm missing something here.

megadan said he was torn between a 650 and sg400.

[XLsior]

There appears to be pros and cons for either option...both can be modded. If you are purchasing a bike to hack it up and improve it then using the servicing and warranty cover to promote the value is now a moot point.

I believe the dilemma is if the extra $900USD premium on the RE650 is worth it?

My perception in Megadan's case is that the additional cost is not worth it. But for others it may very well be.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

megadan said he was torn between a 650 and sg400.

Megadan's size? Get the physically larger bike. I doubt we'll find him in a Smart Car anytime soon.... ;-)

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I'm not sure why we're comparing a 650 to a 400. Totally different beasts, unless I'm missing something here.

It started because I have an equal interest in both bikes. You would think they are very different, but in reality they are more alike than you would think. An aircooled "650" twin making 47hp weighing in at about 450lbs vs a 36hp water cooled "400" twin weighing in at about 360lbs. Both more "traditional" styled bikes, have almost identical power to weight ratios (about 10lbs per HP), and roughly similar price points.

As far as I am concerned, the RE 650's are in the most direct competition with the liquid cooled 300-400cc bike segment as a whole, which is why it is being considered among them. The RE also has that rugged simplicity factor that I kind of like being an overbuilt air cooled motor. Plus, the 270 crank makes it sound cool lol.

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Megadan's size? Get the physically larger bike. I doubt we'll find him in a Smart Car anytime soon.... ;-)

Aside from the width of the bikes, they are actually pretty close in size in terms of wheelbase, seat height, etc. So the "bigger" bike really isn't that much bigger.

[XLsior]

Its basically the same conundrum as a Suzuki DRZ400 vs DR650 debate. Either way you choose you end up with a pretty good bike....

PS, Im in the DR650 aka 'Bush Pig' camp.

[wheelbender6]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

megadan said he was torn between a 650 and sg400.

We are comparing 400s and 650s because the CSC and RE are affordable twins with retro styling?
-The Genuine G400 offers the classic looks at a lower price, but at a significantly lower cruising speed.

[2LZ]

Since we are comparing, what about seat height?

After watching the CSC video provided earlier in the thread, Mrs. 2LZ was very interested in the SG400 simply because a guy with a 30" inseam can flat-foot it. Even with the lowering doo-dad on her RX3 and the forks sucked up in the trees, she still tip-toes it.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by wheelbender6

We are comparing 400s and 650s because the CSC and RE are affordable twins with retro styling?
-The Genuine G400 offers the classic looks at a lower price, but at a significantly lower cruising speed.

The G400C, while cool, not comparable. Styling wise, sure. Power/performance, features, etc. No.

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Since we are comparing, what about seat height?

After watching the CSC video provided earlier in the thread, Mrs. 2LZ was very interested in the SG400 simply because a guy with a 30" inseam can flat-foot it. Even with the lowering doo-dad on her RX3 and the forks sucked up in the trees, she still tip-toes it.

The SG650 has a 30.3" seat height vs a 31.6" height on the RE. I think the bigger difference isn't going to really be the extra inch or so of seat height, but the width of the SG400 being a bit narrower will help as well. I rarely have to consider seat height on a bike (I can basically flat foot a CRF450), so I don't put much thought into it. My Girlfriend can get both her toes down on the RE though, and she is 5'7 with some relatively short legs for her height.