4° timing advance flywheel key. - Page 3

**JerryHawk250** · 08-14-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard_Cain

Well this is conflicting ... lol.

The Motion Pro tool is M28.1.0 .... th eone Dan used, that you link here, Jerry, is described on the page as M27x1.0.

Pretty sure one won't work and the other will.

So any ideas all which is correct?

Look at the pictures on Ebay. M28x1.0

Deckard_Cain · 08-14-2020, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Look at the pictures on Ebay. M28x1.0

Well damn. Item description says 27mm... Pictures show 28mm measurement.

That's dumb.lol.

Megadan · 08-14-2020, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard_Cain

Well damn. Item description says 27mm... Pictures show 28mm measurement.

That's dumb.lol.

What's even more dumb is the M27 or M28 thing doesn't matter. You need the M16x1.0 center piece to actually pull the flywheel on the Hawk, so as long as you find a puller with that thread size and pitch, you are good to go.

Jeff Richardson · 08-24-2020, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffrey

I found a place that has both 2 degree and 4 degree keys for the Honda 50s and 100 that are the same size as the Hawk. ADA Racing in Chandler AZ. $ 9.95. Thanks OLR.

That seemed like easier method for me.
$15 to the door. USPS

**JerryHawk250** · 08-27-2020, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

What's even more dumb is the M27 or M28 thing doesn't matter. You need the M16x1.0 center piece to actually pull the flywheel on the Hawk, so as long as you find a puller with that thread size and pitch, you are good to go.

That's good to know Dan.

I've never pulled the flywheel cover or flywheel off my Hawk. I assumed it would of been the same as the X22R. I'll need to order two flywheel keys.

Deckard_Cain · 08-30-2020, 08:12 PM

Wrapped up my timing key install today.

Bikes running rich, but you can indeed feel better throttle response and a bit more pep in her. Overall an easy job and well worth it.

I think it chalks up to not accurate sizing, but I was running spot on fuel mix on the stock carb, this vm26 clone must have a TRUE 40 pilot, which is larger than the so-called k40a pilot that's on the stock carb.

Looks like I'll be buying a pilot jet assortment now. I can't dial my idle mix lean enough on this jet. Air/fuel screw all the way in or out, anywhere in between just isn't right.

But I do like the 4 degree timing advance.

Emerikol · 08-30-2020, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

What's even more dumb is the M27 or M28 thing doesn't matter. You need the M16x1.0 center piece to actually pull the flywheel on the Hawk, so as long as you find a puller with that thread size and pitch, you are good to go.

I went to the local auto parts store and just bought a grade 8 bolt, and ground about 3/8th of an inch off the end of the threads. Then just thread it into the end of the flywheel and use the bolt to press off the flywheel. It works an absolute treat.

OneLeggedRider · 09-01-2020, 01:09 PM

Well yesterday we installed a 12 tooth sprocket on Jay's Hawk and now you can really tell the benefit of the 4° flywheel key. 12/33 was the best ratio for my Hawk and netted 66mph. Because Jay weighs 120lbs less we thought a 13/33 ratio would be better for him. This was apparently not the case. His 5th gear was power assisted coasting.

But anywho, his bike is flying through the gears now and accelerates much faster. His top speed is still limited to 66mph, but I think it will have to have head work to cross that barrier.

**JerryHawk250** · 09-02-2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Well yesterday we installed a 12 tooth sprocket on Jay's Hawk and now you can really tell the benefit of the 4° flywheel key. 12/33 was the best ratio for my Hawk and netted 66mph. Because Jay weighs 120lbs less we thought a 13/33 ratio would be better for him. This was apparently not the case. His 5th gear was power assisted coasting.

But anywho, his bike is flying through the gears now and accelerates much faster. His top speed is still limited to 66mph, but I think it will have to have head work to cross that barrier.

It's not about top speed, It's how fast you get there.

The head work will help.

China Rider 27 · 01-21-2021, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Length and width for the stock key is 14mm x 4mm and the height of the curve is 4.1mm. The offset for the 4° advance is 0.7mm

So that's simple enough, make your width 4.7mm and then cut the opposite sides halfway through the height to 0.7mm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffrey

I found a place that has both 2 degree and 4 degree keys for the Honda 50s and 100 that are the same size as the Hawk. ADA Racing in Chandler AZ. $ 9.95. Thanks OLR.

I bought one. Measures almost identical and the difference probably not significant 14mm X 4mm and the height of the curve 4.37. the offset for 4degree .7mm Guess Jerry will confirm it this weekend.

MDStroup · 05-01-2022, 05:35 AM

I know this is the dual sport section, but this is the thread for this, so I figured it best to ask here instead of a new thread.

Will this 4 degree key work with the engines that come on the grom clones?

Deckard_Cain · 05-05-2022, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDStroup

I know this is the dual sport section, but this is the thread for this, so I figured it best to ask here instead of a new thread.

Will this 4 degree key work with the engines that come on the grom clones?

I also have a Boom Vader grom clone, used the original 125 engine for a bit, then big bore kitted it to a 141 and now I've got the ZS190 in it.

This specific key likely (probably) won't fit the crank and flywheel on those engines. This concept very well may... but getting an aftermarket CDI or one with variable timing is much easier.

There are a few CDI boxes out there for those engines that allow you to jumper certain connections to vary the timing configuration.

Thumper · 05-05-2022, 08:17 PM

If 4 degrees causes kickback, why not try 3 degrees, or 2 degrees? It would still improve performance.

I know, the key isn't available, but a less radical key could be ground on the protruding side on a 4 degree key. You can then shim the shim on the side that is recessed with sheet metal. Viola, 2.7 degrees, or 3.1 degrees. Additional performance is great, but 4 degrees is arbitrary!

TORKER · 05-15-2022, 04:03 PM

I'm having a hard time finding the 4 degree key. Anybody knows who has it in stock? Didn't see it at Henner Motorsports today.
Thanks in advance.

TORKER.

Megadan · 05-15-2022, 05:43 PM

0

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORKER

I'm having a hard time finding the 4 degree key. Anybody knows who has it in stock? Didn't see it at Henner Motorsports today.
Thanks in advance.

TORKER.

There are currently none to be had anywhere. Likely a shortage issue. Who knows when we will get more again.

09-01-2020, 01:09 PM	#38
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	Well yesterday we installed a 12 tooth sprocket on Jay's Hawk and now you can really tell the benefit of the 4° flywheel key. 12/33 was the best ratio for my Hawk and netted 66mph. Because Jay weighs 120lbs less we thought a 13/33 ratio would be better for him. This was apparently not the case. His 5th gear was power assisted coasting. But anywho, his bike is flying through the gears now and accelerates much faster. His top speed is still limited to 66mph, but I think it will have to have head work to cross that barrier. __________________ ~ Don't poke the bear ~ M.M.I. Dean's List graduate class of '95 and Specialty welder 2020 Ice Bear Terifecta 150cc Trike 2011 Honda Foreman 500ES 4x4 2001 Polaris Scrambler 400
	2

05-05-2022, 08:17 PM	#43
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,783	Why 4 degrees? If 4 degrees causes kickback, why not try 3 degrees, or 2 degrees? It would still improve performance. I know, the key isn't available, but a less radical key could be ground on the protruding side on a 4 degree key. You can then shim the shim on the side that is recessed with sheet metal. Viola, 2.7 degrees, or 3.1 degrees. Additional performance is great, but 4 degrees is arbitrary!
	0

08-30-2020, 08:12 PM	#36
Deckard_Cain Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 400	Wrapped up my timing key install today. Bikes running rich, but you can indeed feel better throttle response and a bit more pep in her. Overall an easy job and well worth it. I think it chalks up to not accurate sizing, but I was running spot on fuel mix on the stock carb, this vm26 clone must have a TRUE 40 pilot, which is larger than the so-called k40a pilot that's on the stock carb. Looks like I'll be buying a pilot jet assortment now. I can't dial my idle mix lean enough on this jet. Air/fuel screw all the way in or out, anywhere in between just isn't right. But I do like the 4 degree timing advance.
	3

05-01-2022, 05:35 AM	#41
MDStroup Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 207	I know this is the dual sport section, but this is the thread for this, so I figured it best to ask here instead of a new thread. Will this 4 degree key work with the engines that come on the grom clones?
	0

05-15-2022, 04:03 PM	#44
TORKER Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 50	I'm having a hard time finding the 4 degree key. Anybody knows who has it in stock? Didn't see it at Henner Motorsports today. Thanks in advance. TORKER.
	0